Racism in football/booing/the knee | Page 19 | Vital Football

Racism in football/booing/the knee

Be nice to ban the racists, not sure anyone other than the racists would disagree with that. But not for booing. With that said, the modern fan (not about this issue) seems to love to boo, I wouldn't mind them all f*****g off to be fair.
 
The Fear said:
Be nice to ban the racists, not sure anyone other than the racists would disagree with that. But not for booing. With that said, the modern fan (not about this issue) seems to love to boo, I wouldn't mind them all f*****g off to be fair.
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True that. I loved the footage of VP rocking from the outside when we were getting thrashed by Man City. More of that, less booing please.
 
The Fear said:
Be nice to ban the racists, not sure anyone other than the racists would disagree with that. But not for booing. With that said, the modern fan (not about this issue) seems to love to boo, I wouldn't mind them all f*****g off to be fair.
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Not winning at half-time, regardless of performance is an excuse to boo nowadays. Maybe it releases some endorphins in the younger generation?
 
Having suggested banning the perpetrators for life from every football ground, I've reconsidered and instead think that photographs of the booing individuals, should be printed on each clubs official and fan websites. Sort of a shame them campaign.
To try and clear up some peoples misunderstanding of the use of, "Black Lives Matter," as a slogan. The protests started long before the George Floyd killing and was highlighting systemic racism, that is racism built into the institutions that are the backbone of society, as we know it. That particularly unsavoury incident, the murder of George Floyd, just fueled ordinary people up to get behind the protest. The protest itself is not only about 'black' lives mattering but about every life mattering, it's saying that if one person's life isn't valuable, nobody's life is valuable. Besides what else are you going to call it? Black, White, Brown, Olive, Red and Yellow coloured skinned peoples lives matter, rather long and unwieldy and boring, don't you think, while Black Lives Matter is short and snappy.
 
That's great for life 58 - and it's a slogan.

But this is football and football and the press didn't present a slogan, they presented a singular group in interviews.

And I'm repeating myself.
 
1958Villan said:
Having suggested banning the perpetrators for life from every football ground, I've reconsidered and instead think that photographs of the booing individuals, should be printed on each clubs official and fan websites. Sort of a shame them campaign.
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No mate. Shaming people into shutting up apart from for actual racist abuse (which is illegal anyway) would be totally counter-productive. It's an ongoing argument and it will develop and to and fro and if we're confident in our argument we'll persuade some people. But you have to make the argument, not tell people "shut up or else".
 
Platypus said:
No mate. Shaming people into shutting up apart from for actual racist abuse (which is illegal anyway) would be totally counter-productive. It's an ongoing argument and it will develop and to and fro and if we're confident in our argument we'll persuade some people. But you have to make the argument, not tell people "shut up or else".
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What there would be merit in (I think), is naming and shaming those convicted of racism/discrimination in a court of law. Can't do it on booing as this thread shows there are reasons to boo even if you don't agree with them. Can't do it ahead of charges being brought as that would be Contempt and give them an opportunity to wrongly get off if charges were then brought.

But after conviction, that's a different story if clubs wanted to show such a stand by pointing out racism/discrimination by showing recent convictions in a matchday programme/website etc.
 
1958Villan said:
Having suggested banning the perpetrators for life from every football ground, I've reconsidered and instead think that photographs of the booing individuals, should be printed on each clubs official and fan websites. Sort of a shame them campaign.
To try and clear up some peoples misunderstanding of the use of, "Black Lives Matter," as a slogan. The protests started long before the George Floyd killing and was highlighting systemic racism, that is racism built into the institutions that are the backbone of society, as we know it. That particularly unsavoury incident, the murder of George Floyd, just fueled ordinary people up to get behind the protest. The protest itself is not only about 'black' lives mattering but about every life mattering, it's saying that if one person's life isn't valuable, nobody's life is valuable. Besides what else are you going to call it? Black, White, Brown, Olive, Red and Yellow coloured skinned peoples lives matter, rather long and unwieldy and boring, don't you think, while Black Lives Matter is short and snappy.
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Could just try 'all lives matter'
 
Villan57 said:
Jobs a good un, I find it strange that all these racist football fans were cheering Sterling's goal, surely if they are racists they would be booing his every touch like the Eastern European fans would if the game was played there.

This is the agenda BBC ITV SKY LBC radio has, it's not listening , it's just labelling people racist. Yet football fans are probably the least racist in this country than anywhere in Europe
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The trend V57 is when they don't play well and don't score then the comments, boo's and general shameful behaviour comes out. Whether its Sterling at City, Martial at United or whoever else. There is a word in between racist and prejudice that is missing from the English language. Racist when things aren't going their way but content when they are.

I agree with your latter comment there. I don't think blindly labelling people racists works. Being called a racist is an attack on the "self" and it shows by how people react. Its one of the worst things you can be labelled.

With that said how can you reach a different conclusion? What else would you call them? The optics of booing BLACK LIVES MATTER is bad, there isnt a word to describe how bad it looks. To me there is order of magnitudes difference between us lot on here talking it out and someone actually booing BLM.

Edit: I think we're all unified on one thing which is booing is at a minimum a poor way to express yourself, especially about this.
Edit2: I will throw them a bone, I really don't know how they can combat this. I don't think they can because again it's the optics.
 
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mike_field said:
What there would be merit in (I think), is naming and shaming those convicted of racism/discrimination in a court of law. Can't do it on booing as this thread shows there are reasons to boo even if you don't agree with them. Can't do it ahead of charges being brought as that would be Contempt and give them an opportunity to wrongly get off if charges were then brought.

But after conviction, that's a different story if clubs wanted to show such a stand by pointing out racism/discrimination by showing recent convictions in a matchday programme/website etc.
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Sure, but equally my point was that people who view themselves as progressives, liberals, whatever, need to be loud in supporting freedom of speech for people who we disagree with. Telling people why I think they're wrong for booing is healthy debate, saying that they should be banned or shamed for it is really unhealthy. Society can go either way, and nobody will want to see censorship if it's them being censored.
 
Platypus said:
Sure, but equally my point was that people who view themselves as progressives, liberals, whatever, need to be loud in supporting freedom of speech for people who we disagree with. Telling people why I think they're wrong for booing is healthy debate, saying that they should be banned or shamed for it is really unhealthy. Society can go either way, and nobody will want to see censorship if it's them being censored.
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I'm being a bit more binary than Voltaire (whether you believe he was misquoted or not lol).

Simply because for all the things we are better at than the US on race/discrimination issues etc, when someone is caught red handed we are as soft as fuck in the punishment, and that needs to change.

I am thoroughly with you on that angle, and it's one of the reasons this forum is fantastic because we (the royal we JF, alert team etc) want, encourage the debate because in my own humble, education is absolutely the way forward. You have to challenge, show facts, prove your point and whilst you won't change every opinion, you'll change some.

Call someone a dumb fuck and they entrench, they learn nothing because they don't engage or question.

For us lot having varying degrees of a 'dog in the fight' I also think about non members but regular readers where these debates can help as well. It's wider than just us so to speak.

Disagreement, as you say, isn't unhealthy - as long as it's civil. We disagree on this topic, but as I've said in previous posts, you've made valid points as have others and I can't argue against them (because I basically agree)....but, on this, I continue to disagree.

But this is a nuance.
 
I saw this mentioned in the Fans Group Question by Jonathan and ........


Taking the knee need not be an issue that really needs debate, if players wish to take the knee for 8 seconds prior to kick off let them. No one gets hurt by it, no one should be offended by it..... If other players or officials do not want to take the knee then its their choice. What is a disgrace is people booing and jeering someone who chooses to stand with their team mates and show solidarity.

I personally would be gutted to hear Villa supporters booing Villa players before a ball is kicked for taking the knee.

The players come onto the pitch to a massive Villa Park welcome, the tunes are banging out roars of Hi Ho Aston Villa fill the historical Villa Park and a section of the supporters then boo those same players.....
 
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