Bolton Wanderers | Page 17 | Vital Football

Bolton Wanderers

In similar news, Bury have been given a 14 day notice to withdraw their membership of the League.

They have two weeks for their owner to prove he can pay their debts. Their fixtures are potentially going to be suspended.

Not seen things get this far before. This one is scary because from what (admittedly little) I have read on this, I don't think the owner has the money
 
After reading the last few pages I have to put a word in for jbacsta.

ND was given a lot of grief by the fans - which may have hastened his death.

That tragedy left us in the lurch and we had to sell Bamford and Morgan.

The fans who yelled abuse at one owner led to Fawaz taking the reins. While he now looks like an idiot, there was a brief moment when Pearce was manager, Darlow and Lascelles had been sold to Newcastle and loaned back, and we'd signed Antonio and Assombalonga. We were top of the league after about six games.

Then we played Derby. Reid, Cohen and Hobbs all got injured and were out for the season. Without that triple whammy we might have gone up and fans would maybe see Fawaz in a better light...

As it is, the knee-jerk reaction is for fans to blame the owner. Or the manager. Or both. Never a pause to see how their constant sniping is part of the problem.
 
After reading the last few pages I have to put a word in for jbacsta.

ND was given a lot of grief by the fans - which may have hastened his death.

That tragedy left us in the lurch and we had to sell Bamford and Morgan.

The fans who yelled abuse at one owner led to Fawaz taking the reins. While he now looks like an idiot, there was a brief moment when Pearce was manager, Darlow and Lascelles had been sold to Newcastle and loaned back, and we'd signed Antonio and Assombalonga. We were top of the league after about six games.

Then we played Derby. Reid, Cohen and Hobbs all got injured and were out for the season. Without that triple whammy we might have gone up and fans would maybe see Fawaz in a better light...

As it is, the knee-jerk reaction is for fans to blame the owner. Or the manager. Or both. Never a pause to see how their constant sniping is part of the problem.


But we didn't go up and shortly after that it was one disaster after another, by possibly the worse owner of any football club going. Reduced capacity was one of my favourites.
 
After reading the last few pages I have to put a word in for jbacsta.

ND was given a lot of grief by the fans - which may have hastened his death.

That tragedy left us in the lurch and we had to sell Bamford and Morgan.

The fans who yelled abuse at one owner led to Fawaz taking the reins. While he now looks like an idiot, there was a brief moment when Pearce was manager, Darlow and Lascelles had been sold to Newcastle and loaned back, and we'd signed Antonio and Assombalonga. We were top of the league after about six games.

Then we played Derby. Reid, Cohen and Hobbs all got injured and were out for the season. Without that triple whammy we might have gone up and fans would maybe see Fawaz in a better light...

As it is, the knee-jerk reaction is for fans to blame the owner. Or the manager. Or both. Never a pause to see how their constant sniping is part of the problem.
There are a few problems here.

Firstly, I am extremely uncomfortable with you suggesting forest fans were responsible for Doughty's death.

Did Doughty get some stick? Yes he did. We had been in the playoffs twice, making progress for the first time in a decade. He allowed 9 players to leave for free, sacked the manager and oversaw the worst transfer window in our history to leave us near the bottom of the table at the end of September when the protests began.

The protests at the Birmingham game were against Mark Arthur though. That was the planned protest, as he was very much seen as the man at fault. There was an impromptu protest after the game from a handful against Doughty, after which he announced he was Jacking it in.

Remember, this was pretty much the pre-twitter days. There was some stick on forums and some stick on radio phone ins. Nothing remotely like he would have nowadays. He then faced his first ever protest at the ground and called it a day.

This was the end of September. He died of SADS (basically means 'dunno' as far as I can tell) in early February, over 4 months later. I think it is absolutely disgraceful to link the two when even doctors cannot really account for a 54 year old man's sudden death while working out in his gym.

You are IMO misrepresenting the Pearce era as well. Yes, we were top of the table in September. But we never looked like a top of the table team. We were grinding out narrow wins, with very few games were we really Impressed. I remember saying at the time that we didn't look like a top side, and that sooner for later either performances would rise to the results or results would sink to the level of the performances.

The latter happened. You can blame the injuries in the Derby game if you like, but all three players (Reid less so) were injury prone anyway. Losing those three did indeed cost us results but made no difference to promotion because the man in charge was not good enough.
 
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There are a few problems here.

Firstly, I am extremely uncomfortable with you suggesting forest fans were responsible for Doughty's death.

Did Doughty get some stick? Yes he did. We had been in the playoffs twice, making progress for the first time in a decade. He allowed 9 players to leave for free, sacked the manager and oversaw the worst transfer window in our history to leave us near the bottom of the table at the end of September when the protests began.

The protests at the Birmingham game were against Mark Arthur though. That was the planned protest, as he was very much seen as the man at fault. There was an impromptu protest after the game from a handful against Doughty, after which he announced he was Jacking it in.

Remember, this was pretty much the pre-twitter days. There was some stick on forums and some stick on radio phone ins. Nothing remotely like he would have nowadays. He then faced his first ever protest at the ground and called it a day.

This was the end of September. He died of SADS (basically means 'dunno' as far as I can tell) in early February, over 4 months later. I think it is absolutely disgraceful to link the two when even doctors cannot really account for a 54 year old man's sudden death while working out in his gym.

You are IMO misrepresenting the Pearce era as well. Yes, we were top of the table in September. But we never looked like a top of the table team. We were grinding out narrow wins, with very few games were we really Impressed. I remember saying at the time that we didn't look like a top side, and that sooner for later either performances would rise to the results or results would sink to the level of the performances.

The latter happened. You can blame the injuries in the Derby game if you like, but all three players (Reid less so) were injury prone anyway. Losing those three did indeed cost us results but made no difference to promotion because the man in charge was not good enough.

I'm not ascribing any blame with this but you underestimate one or two of our fans who targeted ND and his family in the real world. Nigel could take criticism but when it began to effect his children it broke his heart. That car park protest may have began as a protest purely against MA but it didn't end there.
 
I'm not ascribing any blame with this but you underestimate one or two of our fans who targeted ND and his family in the real world. Nigel could take criticism but when it began to effect his children it broke his heart. That car park protest may have began as a protest purely against MA but it didn't end there.
There were two car park protests, one planned, one not. I was (briefly) at the first against MA but not the second, which was after the game and was aimed at Doughty.

I didnt know anything about fans targeting him in real life. Absolutely unacceptable and potentially criminal. There is no justification for that whatsoever.

But we can't get into painting the fanbase as a whole like that, which in a way pebble was doing
 
There were two car park protests, one planned, one not. I was (briefly) at the first against MA but not the second, which was after the game and was aimed at Doughty.

I didnt know anything about fans targeting him in real life. Absolutely unacceptable and potentially criminal. There is no justification for that whatsoever.

But we can't get into painting the fanbase as a whole like that, which in a way pebble was doing

Doughty was on Twitter at the time, as were his son & daughter, all of whom recieve abuse, this as you say is utterly disgraceful.

The pre-match protest was though directed at both Doughty & Arthur, the general gist of which wassumed up perfectly with the chant "5 year plan, 10 years on". This period also saw the worst run in entire history, at one point being only 3 points above the relegation zone to the 4th tier. After a decade there was absolutely no progress & despite this Mark Arthur was constantly releasing vieled threats via the media. Hardly surprising the fans turned in the end, especially considering the sacking of a popular manager & replacing him with an unpopular one that failed to deliver.

I find blaming fans for his death to be a disgusting attack on fans though, not only is it untrue but it's dredging up bad memories of a man that should be allowed to rest in peace, but also of a man there can be no doubt tried his best & sunk millions into the club, let the man rest.
 
Doughty was on Twitter at the time, as were his son & daughter, all of whom recieve abuse, this as you say is utterly disgraceful.

The pre-match protest was though directed at both Doughty & Arthur, the general gist of which wassumed up perfectly with the chant "5 year plan, 10 years on". This period also saw the worst run in entire history, at one point being only 3 points above the relegation zone to the 4th tier. After a decade there was absolutely no progress & despite this Mark Arthur was constantly releasing vieled threats via the media. Hardly surprising the fans turned in the end, especially considering the sacking of a popular manager & replacing him with an unpopular one that failed to deliver.

I find blaming fans for his death to be a disgusting attack on fans though, not only is it untrue but it's dredging up bad memories of a man that should be allowed to rest in peace, but also of a man there can be no doubt tried his best & sunk millions into the club, let the man rest.

All I said was "ND was given a lot of grief by the fans - which may have hastened his death".

Sorry - should have specified SOME fans. Why is it 'disgusting' to point out a disgusting level of vitriol directed against an owner who was a fan himself, and against his family? Not sure how this reflects badly on Doughty.

My general point is that it's easy for a fan to blame the owner if things don't go well on the pitch, but while we spend a few hundred on a season ticket, owners pump millions into the club.
 
An update on clubs in crisis

Bury: have now had their second game of the season against Accrington suspended. This is unprecedented in my time following football (as far as I can remember).

The problem Is that their 'owner' has failed to provide evidence that he can sustain the club throughout it's fixtures this season (including accounting for a potential £1.5m loss, which the owner claims is 'fictional) , as well as pay off all footballing creditors (and this is the crucial part, asany of their promotion winning squad were not paid). He claims he has shown the FL all the evidence they need and that the FL have an agenda against the club. The FL beg to differ.

They have given loads of deadlines and deadline extensions. The FL claim progress has been made but Steve Dale has still not shown proof he can pay off all football debts AND get the club to May.

FL already have a contingency of reducing League 1 to 23 teams and have said an extra L2 club would be promoted this season.

Best case scenario, Bury will get a significant extra points deduction for these two fixtures. I would bet 3 points per game, with Bolton getting an extra 3 points deduction for failing to fulfil the Brentford game in April.

But it is an increasingly realistic scenario that Bury may be the first club expelled from the league since Maidstone in 1992. They are bending over backwards but can't keep suspending matches forever and the fact that Dale disputes whether he has given the information or not, as well as what they require, is worrying.

Bolton: are still on the verge of a takeover. Their game at Wycombe is on, and they have finally signed a couple of players. Players have been paid, BUT there are suggestions not in full. Apparently the new owners/administrators have deducted PFA loans the players have recieved from their back pay. Rumours that the Bolton bus was sat outside the hotel for a long time yesterday with some players refusing to get off and some players having refused to travel at all.

No one has any idea how many players are available. A couple were signed yesterday but no one outside the club is sure whether they met the 12pm registration deadline. Some reports suggest only 3 senior outfield players may be available. At best, there will be 7 kids on the bench

Apologies to any forum users who may be offended because this post is not 100% forest and who may feel the urgent need to repeatedly punch that alert button
 
BBC are stating that the football league are demanding Steve Dale provide prrof he can fund Bury for two full seasons, not just this. Not sure if this is the complication around why he believes he has already supplied evidence but FL claiming otherwise.

Dale also refusing to sell the club.

Looks very precarious.

Bolton is wierd though, prefered bidder (Football Ventures ltd?) were chosen months ago but since then no progress seems to have been made, lots of confusion around the hotel which is a completely seperate business.
 
BBC are stating that the football league are demanding Steve Dale provide prrof he can fund Bury for two full seasons, not just this. Not sure if this is the complication around why he believes he has already supplied evidence but FL claiming otherwise.

Dale also refusing to sell the club.

Looks very precarious.

Bolton is wierd though, prefered bidder (Football Ventures ltd?) were chosen months ago but since then no progress seems to have been made, lots of confusion around the hotel which is a completely seperate business.
Everyone wants the hotel, which is presumably the only profitable part of the business. But I think it's own sale is on a totally different timescale of months whereas the club needs to be sold imminently.

As for Bury... I can't see how this is going to work out well. Two seasons' funding is a lot and Dale may be able to challenge that in courts as it must be more than is asked of other clubs. Other than that, I can't see it ending well. If he had the ready money to do all they are asking then surely he would show the proof by now
 
I must admit to being very perplexed now when it comes to having an opinion on the viability of some football clubs. If Notts with absolutely zero (as far as I can see) asssets and a balance sheet of alleged debt as long as your arm, can be sold as a going concern, there must be hope for every struggling club in the pyramid.
 
Everyone wants the hotel, which is presumably the only profitable part of the business. But I think it's own sale is on a totally different timescale of months whereas the club needs to be sold imminently.

As for Bury... I can't see how this is going to work out well. Two seasons' funding is a lot and Dale may be able to challenge that in courts as it must be more than is asked of other clubs. Other than that, I can't see it ending well. If he had the ready money to do all they are asking then surely he would show the proof by now

What a rotten way of things these days, all about money and profits. If you happen to be a Premier League supporter nothing else seems to matter much and 60M or 80M quid is par for the course for a player. Pity the poor bugger who supports Bury though, often a lifetime fan, and what happens if they go under, if they're anything like most of us they don't just switch clubs, it's a bit like losing an arm or leg, that's a bit heavy but you know what I mean.
What a dead loss!
 
Aparrently one of the people funding Football Ventures bid for Bolton (the administrators prefered bidder) has pulled a large chunk of funding out of the deal. Where that leaves them only God knows.
 
I must admit to being very perplexed now when it comes to having an opinion on the viability of some football clubs. If Notts with absolutely zero (as far as I can see) asssets and a balance sheet of alleged debt as long as your arm, can be sold as a going concern, there must be hope for every struggling club in the pyramid.

Notts have got the benefit of history though - oldest club. Most clubs have to hope that they have at least one fan with more money than sense, though at our level clubs seem to still attract foreign buyers.
 
Bury have had their cup tie suspended now.

They have been given 14 days to provide the information required or they will be expelled from the League