Bolton points deduction | Vital Football

Bolton points deduction

#1
What’s everyone’s thoughts on this? Starting the league 1 season on minus 12 points because of going into administration.
I think that the football authorities really need to start looking at different methods of fining etc when a club goes into administration. Reason being is the owners who have moved on basically get let off scott free for destroying a club, it’s history and possibly it’s future and it’s the fans, players and prospective new owners who suffer.
Bigger sanctions should be in place on the previous owners and be booted out of sport forever and impose fines for any future business ventures of said owners.
Interested to see others thoughts on the matter?
 

Wayne.Kerr

Vital Champions League
#3
There are sanctions outside of football that would apply if a director have deliberately run a company down, ie failed to pay creditors, which includes wages but then you never know what smoke and mirrors they adopted to avoid punishment. I guess it goes back to the FA/EFL passing investors/directors fit for purpose. How many have we seen pass the test when they are facing charges in their home country or have done similar things in the past and been punished?
 

Wayne.Kerr

Vital Champions League
#7
There has got to be a sanction for over spending.
What else would you suggest?
There are a whole raft of sanctions against company directors who fail in their legal and fiduciary responsibilities - the latest being sanctions against directors who dissolve companies in order to avoid paying salaries and wages and other debts. Whatever punishment the FA metes out is over and above that provided for under statutory regulations.

I have often thought it unfair to punish clubs when everyone other than the directors, eg players, back room staff and fans etc, when it is the owners/directors who are to blame.
 

OneSirKeefy

Vital 1st Team Regular
#8
We are still joint 2nd favourites for relegation next season!
Cheers Lark. It's snippets like that which give me confidence that we live in a divinely ordered universe. God may not like us much, but He's there and sees to it that we continue to occupy our proper place in the scheme of things.
Are we saying that God has that “we’re only little Gillingham after all” mentality that did for JED?

No wonder I don’t attend church on Sundays. Pfffft.
 

jogills

Vital 1st Team Regular
#10
The players do pretty well when things go tits up, better than most other employees of failed companies.

There has to be some way of penalising clubs that cheat by overspending. If not we might as well allow match fixing. I suspect that Bolton are facing further sanctions over transfer activity.

Expect a drip, drip of news that reveals a much bigger financial hole than currently known. I'm happy to be second favourites for the drop by comparison. Are Bolton the actual favourites? If so we are morally the outright favourites. COYG
 

Wayne.Kerr

Vital Champions League
#11
The players do pretty well when things go tits up, better than most other employees of failed companies.

There has to be some way of penalising clubs that cheat by overspending. If not we might as well allow match fixing. I suspect that Bolton are facing further sanctions over transfer activity.

Expect a drip, drip of news that reveals a much bigger financial hole than currently known. I'm happy to be second favourites for the drop by comparison. Are Bolton the actual favourites? If so we are morally the outright favourites. COYG
First, people are confusing legal sanctions available regarding ownership and stewardship of Bolton and, second, those additional sanctions imposed by the footballing authorities. Footballers often do well because (1) they can ply their trade at lots of clubs and (2) players and clubs pay into the PFA fund.
 

chris who

Vital Football Hero
#12
Cheers Lark. It's snippets like that which give me confidence that we live in a divinely ordered universe. God may not like us much, but He's there and sees to it that we continue to occupy our proper place in the scheme of things.
I believe he will like us even less if we bring in Evans and Raynor.
 

jogills

Vital 1st Team Regular
#13
First, people are confusing legal sanctions available regarding ownership and stewardship of Bolton and, second, those additional sanctions imposed by the footballing authorities. Footballers often do well because (1) they can ply their trade at lots of clubs and (2) players and clubs pay into the PFA fund.
Players do well due to The Football Creditors Rule. No other group of employees enjoys such a privilege.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...ers-can-still-pick-up-bumper-pay-packets.html
 

Wayne.Kerr

Vital Champions League
#14
Football is a very precarious business. We’ve seen clubs come and go while others have virtually disappeared for good. Unlike almost any other industry, clubs have to adhere to a very specific structure (leagues, fixtures, cup tournaments, seasonal constraints etc etc.). In general, businesses can move, adopt new product lines, open branches and so on; these are options not readily available to football clubs. Clubs are intrinsically tied to communities, which is why only a few clubs ever move; their place of business is not an office block or factory but a multi- million pound stadium. In other words, a truly fixed asset that clubs struggle to make a return on. So, yes clubs have some advantages such as the (lawful) football creditors rule, although that does come with strings attached. Given the parlours state of the beautiful game, without these rules the league today would look very different to those of (say) ten years ago and I suspect GFC would have been long gone.
 

jogills

Vital 1st Team Regular
#15
I agree about the different situations and the likely peril for clubs like ours but we can't bank on this rule being in place forever. The public is blissfully unaware that player contracts are paid ahead of all other creditors and could easily be whipped up over the issue. It's more for the integrity of the league than the benefit of individual clubs.

Bolton have yet to be sanctioned for failing to complete their fixtures and the nonsense over Doidge's transfer so 12 points may only be the half of it.
 

Wayne.Kerr

Vital Champions League
#16
I agree about the different situations and the likely peril for clubs like ours but we can't bank on this rule being in place forever. The public is blissfully unaware that player contracts are paid ahead of all other creditors and could easily be whipped up over the issue. It's more for the integrity of the league than the benefit of individual clubs.

Bolton have yet to be sanctioned for failing to complete their fixtures and the nonsense over Doidge's transfer so 12 points may only be the half of it.
Then it goes back to my point about owners/directors being fit for purpose, which seems to be a broken test. Moreover, the EFL should monitor clubs all the time not just when warning signals are there. UEFA does it as evidenced by the latest problem to hit Man City but I guess smaller clubs are just overlooked until they appear to be going belly up. As regards players contracts surely it’s not the clubs that foot the bill when the shit hits the fan but the likes of the EFL.
 

jogills

Vital 1st Team Regular
#17
EFL may help temporarily but bankrupt clubs are liable for the full value of player contracts even once in administration. All other creditors line up behind them and the logic of the process is that the club goes to the wall before players' wages. I agree about monitoring and owners/directors being fit and proper but won't be holding my breath. Bolton may test all the safeguaqrds before their situation is resolved because their debts are huge and there is no honest actor wanting to buy.