Bollox about Ireland and Afghanistan

[Made in Wigan]

I think history may show that thatcher and regans hatred of the soviet union and socialism in general in the 70s/80s are the reason the taliban are sitting in down town Kabul tonight.

You should have told sleepy Joe, he blamed everyone else for his catastrophic decision apart from them. The man isn’t mentally fit for this office and sadly the horrific consequences of installing him will fall upon the people of Afghanistan. China, Russia and Iran will be emboldened by this fool at the helm and the world is now a more dangerous place. Politics need to be set aside now and Democrats need to persuade him to stand down or suffer the humiliation of having the 25th amendment invoked before he does any more damage.

 

[moonay]

You should have told sleepy Joe, he blamed everyone else for his catastrophic decision apart from them. The man isn’t mentally fit for this office and sadly the horrific consequences of installing him will fall upon the people of Afghanistan. China, Russia and Iran will be emboldened by this fool at the helm and the world is now a more dangerous place. Politics need to be set aside now and Democrats need to persuade him to stand down or suffer the humiliation of having the 25th amendment invoked before he does any more damage.

"His catastrophic decision" ........ to continue the process put in place by his predecessor, the one which his predecessor said couldn't be stopped.

I agree that American intelligence seems to have been woefully way off the mark in their estimates of how the Afghan government and military might fare without US support, but to try and blame Biden seems myopic in the extreme.

 

[Coddenchips]

You should have told sleepy Joe, he blamed everyone else for his catastrophic decision apart from them. The man isn’t mentally fit for this office and sadly the horrific consequences of installing him will fall upon the people of Afghanistan. China, Russia and Iran will be emboldened by this fool at the helm and the world is now a more dangerous place. Politics need to be set aside now and Democrats need to persuade him to stand down or suffer the humiliation of having the 25th amendment invoked before he does any more damage.

I hope you're not trying to make out the world would be safer and more stable with Baby Trump in charge over the pond.

 

[Stetic]

I live in Ireland actually. You should visit someday, even bigots are given A welcome!!

Best country I've visited. Went a lot in the 80,s and 90s normally to Tullamore and Moate. But I've also stayed in Kilcoch and Mullingar. West coast of Ireland is breathtaking . People live for today and it makes visiting Eire a fun place to be. Dublin is like London a rip off but still a great ace to go if your not short of a bob or two. Seriously if you have never been to Ireland your missing out.

 

[jocklatic]

Where in my post am I 'trying to defend the IRA?'

I don't think the ira set out to bliw up children..... sounds to me like trying to defend or at least give an excuse for the atrocities that they inflicted. As I said if the ira were supposedly an army & calling themselves that then why not wear a uniform, be identifiable & not be cowardly killers hiding behind women & children.

 

[daleks.at.the.monaco]

Another winger to sit on the halfway line. Rather him sat at Stoke.
Any Taliban going spare while we are in the mood for signing supporters of terrorist murderers?

Dog whistle
Our Government has supported terrorist murderers. However, they were called freedom fighters at the time.

 

[Made in Wigan]

"His catastrophic decision" ........ to continue the process put in place by his predecessor, the one which his predecessor said couldn't be stopped.

I agree that American intelligence seems to have been woefully way off the mark in their estimates of how the Afghan government and military might fare without US support, but to try and blame Biden seems myopic in the extreme.

Trump set conditions to withdraw. Biden just cut and run in the middle of the fighting season, leaving huge amounts of military hardware behind. He never consulted meaningfully with allies, never had a plan B, never considered the Afghan army relied on air assets, never considered the consequences.

Trump decided to pull out of North east Syria - then reassessed this decision when the consequences became clear. Biden is commander in chief, the responsibility for this debacle and how it’s played out sits firmly on his shoulders. To stay on holiday whilst this catastrophe unfolded instead of providing leadership and blaming others for this crisis is both shameful and cowardly. According to reports the atmosphere in his administration is awful and those apoplectic with his decision didn’t feel able to challenge it. That isn’t healthy. He needs to stand down and let Harris takeover, who at least it seems possesses all of her mental faculties.

 

[jeffs right]

Dog whistle
Our Government has supported terrorist murderers. However, they were called freedom fighters at the time.

Yes they have supported causes in our history. Even the illegal war in Iraq. I wonder if the ones shouting about the withdrawal of Kabul are the same ones shouting about not going in the first place. An horriible situation for everyone involved and particularly for women who have benefited but who knows what will happen now.

 

[Made in Wigan]

I hope you're not trying to make out the world would be safer and more stable with Baby Trump in charge over the pond.

Both aren’t fit in my view to hold the office for different reasons. But yes Trump would be the least worst option. Sadly it’s a damning indictment of the US political system.

 

[moonay]

According to reports the atmosphere in his administration is awful and those apoplectic with his decision didn’t feel able to challenge it.

Fox? Newsmax? OAN? Breitbart? QAnon?

Don't make me laugh.

 

[Coddenchips]

Both aren’t fit in my view to hold the office for different reasons. But yes Trump would be the least worst option. Sadly it’s a damning indictment of the US political system.

Trump isn't the least worst anything.

 

[TRUE BELIEVER]

I don't think the ira set out to bliw up children..... sounds to me like trying to defend or at least give an excuse for the atrocities that they inflicted. As I said if the ira were supposedly an army & calling themselves that then why not wear a uniform, be identifiable & not be cowardly killers hiding behind women & children.

TBH Jock, like your own countrymen, the English have a lot to answer for in the way they treated both Scots and Irish. Before jumping on the bandwagon could I suggest you take time to read a little Irish history and learn about how the English landowners in Ireland treated the locals during the last century.

It may open your eyes.

I could never support an organisation like the IRA but before condemning them as Terrorists hiding behind women's skirts once again I suggest you look back to the last war and the operations of our own SOE (Special operations executive) who infiltrated France and used similar tactics. It would have been impossible for the Irish to form an army to oppose the forces of the British army and therefore they formed a militia.

There are many examples of how, we, the English put down their uprisings, the Easter uprising in Dublin was one such instance were over 400 people were massacred in 1916 and a further 1600 injured.

There was also the potato famine that caused hardship and death amongst the Irish population whilst the English landowners looked on and failed to assist the local population. All this has caused a hatred of the way the English ruled Ireland and eventually led to an uprising by the Irish in a bid for their freedom.

I saw an interesting programme in the series "who do you think you are" were Irish comedian Brendan O'Carroll researched his ancestry and in particular the death of his grandfather who was executed on his own doorstep by members of the notorious "Black and Tans". It was shown, and confirmed, that the participants in this execution were members of the British Military.

As I have said, I do not condone the IRA for their tactics, nor do I seek to defend them, but before condemning a player who has lived through the troubles that I doubt many of us on here have experienced I strongly advise people to look at the background history and the reasons why the player resents the wearing of a symbol that to his people is inflammatory.

Does this not also have bearing on the way some people see the taking of the knee that is currently being booed at matches?

 

[Made in Wigan]

Fox? Newsmax? OAN? Breitbart? QAnon?

Don't make me laugh.

Washington Post

​

One former Pentagon official said some members of Mr Biden's national security team had been "apoplectic" at the hasty withdrawal, but suggested many were unwilling to voice their concerns to the commander-in-chief or his top aides.
"It's a reflection of the atmosphere in which the White House is being run," the former official said.

 

[Coddenchips]

. According to reports the atmosphere in his administration is awful and those apoplectic with his decision didn’t feel able to challenge it. That isn’t healthy. He needs to stand down and let Harris takeover, who at least it seems possesses all of her mental faculties.

Whereas the Trump administration was all sweetness and light and everyone felt they could disagree with him without fear of losing their jobs.

 

[Made in Wigan]

Whereas the Trump administration was all sweetness and light and everyone felt they could disagree with him without fear of losing their jobs.

Whataboutery. This unfolding story would likely not have played out in this manner if he had still been in charge. Bottom line Biden and his administration are responsible for the savagery that will be unleashed on the people of Afghanistan and the safe haven it will provide for terrorist groups. What a legacy.

 

[moonay]

Washington Post

​

One former Pentagon official said some members of Mr Biden's national security team had been "apoplectic" at the hasty withdrawal, but suggested many were unwilling to voice their concerns to the commander-in-chief or his top aides.
"It's a reflection of the atmosphere in which the White House is being run," the former official said.

It just doesn't ring true though, does it. Most of the withdrawal had already taken place.

It just wouldn't have been feasible for the US (& allies) to maintain a presence alongside the Taliban running the country ...... which was almost certainly going to happen at some point.

Hard thing to say, but Biden's right re the Afghan government's capitulation so quickly.

Anyway, as Arthur says, this thread isn't the place. Not sure if an Irish and Afghan thread are needed or not, but I'm done.

 

[moonay]

Put it all in here Arthur. I've pre-empted the likely standard of the content in the title.

 

[Made in Wigan]

It just doesn't ring true though, does it. Most of the withdrawal had already taken place.

It just wouldn't have been feasible for the US (& allies) to maintain a presence alongside the Taliban running the country ...... which was almost certainly going to happen at some point.

Hard thing to say, but Biden's right re the Afghan government's capitulation so quickly.

Anyway, as Arthur says, this thread isn't the place. Not sure if an Irish and Afghan thread are needed or not, but I'm done.

There was a cross party group that estimated a coalition force of around 5000 supporting the Afghans with air support, intel, leadership would have ensured stability in the country. Personally I think that commitment would have been feasible and necessary. He even lied in his address about the initial intentions. The withdrawal wasn’t irreversible once he took over - the airbases were all still there and under control for example, and as I said cutting and running took a different shape than what was proposed.

 

[moonay]

There was a cross party group that estimated a coalition force of around 5000 supporting the Afghans with air support, intel, leadership would have ensured stability in the country. Personally I think that commitment would have been feasible and necessary. He even lied in his address about the initial intentions. The withdrawal wasn’t irreversible once he took over - the airbases were all still there and under control for example, and as I said cutting and running took a different shape than what was proposed.

Wasn't reversible? ....... yet it was Trump himself who said that it wasn't.

Any road. the situation has now got to be managed. I'd certainly trust Biden's admin to do that more than Trump's .

 

[jocklatic]

TBH Jock, like your own countrymen, the English have a lot to answer for in the way they treated both Scots and Irish. Before jumping on the bandwagon could I suggest you take time to read a little Irish history and learn about how the English landowners in Ireland treated the locals during the last century.

It may open your eyes.

I could never support an organisation like the IRA but before condemning them as Terrorists hiding behind women's skirts once again I suggest you look back to the last war and the operations of our own SOE (Special operations executive) who infiltrated France and used similar tactics. It would have been impossible for the Irish to form an army to oppose the forces of the British army and therefore they formed a militia.

There are many examples of how, we, the English put down their uprisings, the Easter uprising in Dublin was one such instance were over 400 people were massacred in 1916 and a further 1600 injured.

There was also the potato famine that caused hardship and death amongst the Irish population whilst the English landowners looked on and failed to assist the local population. All this has caused a hatred of the way the English ruled Ireland and eventually led to an uprising by the Irish in a bid for their freedom.

I saw an interesting programme in the series "who do you think you are" were Irish comedian Brendan O'Carroll researched his ancestry and in particular the death of his grandfather who was executed on his own doorstep by members of the notorious "Black and Tans". It was shown, and confirmed, that the participants in this execution were members of the British Military.

As I have said, I do not condone the IRA for their tactics, nor do I seek to defend them, but before condemning a player who has lived through the troubles that I doubt many of us on here have experienced I strongly advise people to look at the background history and the reasons why the player resents the wearing of a symbol that to his people is inflammatory.

Does this not also have bearing on the way some people see the taking of the knee that is currently being booed at matches?

I'll reply to ur post then leave it as Arthur_Itis has said going way, way off topic. I'll try n find the time to read up on some Irish history....I've not condemned JM tho was totally critical of his stupid & crass tweet / pic of him in a balaclava with his kids. I have however done a tour of NI & know first hand of the cowardly attacks on civilians & their attempted killings of the Army personnel by any means necessary. The British army had to observe all protocols ( & rightly so) whilst a so called 'army' acted with impunity & zero regard for human life.