Bob Dorrian: Retrospective | Page 2 | Vital Football

Bob Dorrian: Retrospective

But every unsuccessful manager leaves *some* legacy of decent players to the succeeding successful manager that replaces him.

6 decent players doesn't sound like a lot to me, especially as Sincilbanks points out that it was DC/NC who got them really playing.

To be honest , that's not really my point. Leaving Rheady out, my point is the rest that were left were bang average and Danny and Nicky turned them into the players we admire now, and they would have done the same with any other full time squad in the league they inherited in the National League
 
Most of that is irrelevant, and some of it grossly unfair to the players concerned. If leaving the next manager six members of a promotion-winning team does not constitute a platform, I don't know what does.

It was around this time the fundraising stepped up and I was involved a fair bit.
Can say for definite it was around Moyses that Lincoln City started to change for the better.
Everything improved gradually and before then we just fire fighting and from that position it’s was hard to build.
I look at the positives and Chris unlike Simmo worked with the board not against them.
 
To be honest , that's not really my point. Leaving Rheady out, my point is the rest that were left were bang average and Danny and Nicky turned them into the players we admire now, and they would have done the same with any other full time squad in the league they inherited in the National League

I think we agree, to be honest, if "decent" means much the same as "average".
 
Leaving Rheady out, my point is the rest that were left were bang average and Danny and Nicky turned them into the players we admire now, and they would have done the same with any other full time squad in the league they inherited in the National League

That's a ridiculous suggestion, of course they wouldn't. I can't help thinking that your comments are more the product of an obvious prejudice against Moyses rather than from any factual analysis.

You think Cowley could have done anything with the majority of Simpson's rubbish? Not a chance. Or Holdsworth's? No.

What you are conveniently overlooking is that Moyses had those 'bang average' players up to fourth at the midway stage.
 
That's a ridiculous suggestion, of course they wouldn't. I can't help thinking that your comments are more the product of an obvious prejudice against Moyses rather than from any factual analysis.

You think Cowley could have done anything with the majority of Simpson's rubbish? Not a chance. Or Holdsworth's? No.

What you are conveniently overlooking is that Moyses had those 'bang average' players up to fourth at the midway stage.
Looks like there is a difference of opinion here. We are entitled to our own opinions and that is good.
 
Well that’s your opinion and that is good as everyone has an opinion that may not please everyone as that’s what opinions are about.
 
I can see where @Sincilbanks is coming from.

I mean, were the players performances under Moyses or Cowley closer to their true level? That's the crux of it.

I don't know about anyone else, but I didn't envisage the better 5 or 6 Moyses left - Beevers, Power, Farman, Wood, Muldoon (apart from Rhead) being part of a title winning side.
 
I can see where @Sincilbanks is coming from.

I mean, were the players performances under Moyses or Cowley closer to their true level? That's the crux of it.

I don't know about anyone else, but I didn't envisage the better 5 or 6 Moyses left - Beevers, Power, Farman, Wood, Muldoon (apart from Rhead) being part of a title winning side.

I know I didn't because I kept saying "We need better players"!

What we also needed was a better manager, of course.
 
That's a ridiculous suggestion, of course they wouldn't. I can't help thinking that your comments are more the product of an obvious prejudice against Moyses rather than from any factual analysis.

You think Cowley could have done anything with the majority of Simpson's rubbish? Not a chance. Or Holdsworth's? No.

What you are conveniently overlooking is that Moyses had those 'bang average' players up to fourth at the midway stage.

Danny and Nicky took a Braintree team that was 15th the previous season and got them in the playoffs, that same club the season after they left was relegated. I don't think anyone is suggested Danny and Nicky inherited a "core of good players" at Braintree are they? Imagine what they could have done if they and the players were full time?
Of course there's a lot of familiar faces in their transfer dealings at Braintree for that season... hmmm...

The prejudice point isn't going to fly I'm afraid. Engaging in an ad hominem just because I happen to disagree with something you wrote is not the way to convince anyone I don't think.

Are you saying Danny and Nicky couldn't have improved our performances with Simpsons and Holdsworths squads? I certainly think they could and significantly, they managed it at Braintree after all. Danny is on the record as saying he could add 5 or 10 percent to the performance of the players he inherited at Lincoln.

Luke Waterfall on the change since the Cowleys took over:
"The main thing that they introduced was the professionalism. They run the place like it is a Championship club really and they have done ever since they walked through the door. We do pre-hab and we do gym work. The training is so intense. It is the hardest that I have done in my career and it is every week. I am the fittest I have ever been by a long way."
"We also do a lot of video analysis as well. That was quite rare for a team playing in the National League. I don't think many other teams were doing it so we were going into games with a huge head start on our opponents. We knew all of their plans going into games and I don't think they were doing the same work on us."

The same players who got us to 4th also had a collapse of the same proportions as that which got us relegated. A similar collapse under Tilson saw the players (and the manager) accused of being spineless and clueless, which one is more appropriate the high points or the low points? Or we could just take the one that applies to both halves of the season, average, like our league position.
 
Thought I'd bring this back to page one for anyone that might have missed it!