Bit of Brexit info required. | Page 244 | Vital Football

Bit of Brexit info required.

You mean an academic science journal article was written by academic scientists? No way!

Why not ask why should a geneticist with a 20 year publishing career and medical policy experience decide to form Scientists for EU? He's a very knowledgeable guy, a very good communicator and knows his onions. He's an expert - that's not a dirty word. But for some reason you don't want to listen to what he has to say. Shame, you might learn something.

The article may be written by an academic scientist, it may be in an academic scientist journal, but it's not an academic science article ! Basically you forecast what you think will happen if we stay in the EU using your own parameters. You then do the same again for leaving. Take the difference and you miraculously know how much leaving the EU will cost. Says a lot about the EU that their ideology comes before any impact on Ireland, Belgium, Holland, Germany etc, never mind us !
 
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in contrast you have people making impact assessments with all the credentials and attention to detail of the Express editorial team or Boris Johnson.

Down with experts!
 
Whatever Brexit brings, British science can thrive – if the next PM shows enough political will

Professor Sir Anton Muscatelli is chairman of the Russell Group

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...it-brings-british-science-can-thrive-next-pm/

I know you like a good qualification!

Ha ha - I love this one. Let's see how it goes...
Please can you copy and paste more of the text - I'm not a subscriber - but I'll bet it is not quite as the Telegraph article suggests.
I guess he's saying either that it can thrive but not as well as it might do if we stay, or that it can thrive if the government replaces the funding AND the collaborative structures AND free movement of talented researchers AND the links from academia into global industry. i.e. if it stays as it is now, or gets even better. The chances of that are slim to sod all, as he well knows but has to make the case anyway.


I do respect good qualifications, yes. I don't know Muscatelli but I presume (with moderate confidence) that he's no mug if he is chairman of the Russell group.
Maybe we should agree that he is something of an authority. Ok?


Right, with that in mind...

He recently spoke at a People's Vote rally and has said:
"
Brexit is ‘the most unhinged example of national self-sabotage in living memory’

"

Here he is making the case for free movement post brexit:

Here is an open letter to students outlining his personal and institutional views on brexit:

The opening paragraph is this:
"It goes without saying that Brexit is the single biggest public crisis we’ve had to face in living memory. Over the last two and a half years, I’ve been proud to have taken a strong stance against leaving the European Union, in a personal capacity, and to highlight the ways in which the UK turning its back on our European neighbours would leave us diminished in every way."

Diminished. In. Every. Way.

He also writes:
"undoubtedly huge economic damage which will be inflicted if Brexit goes ahead "
"specific impact on the Higher Education sector, through lost funding and access to pan-European networks. "
"I’ve also been clear – and this is perhaps the most depressing aspect of Brexit – that there would be a huge social and cultural cost "



In summary - a great authority on the subject!
 
Ha ha - I love this one. Let's see how it goes...
Please can you copy and paste more of the text - I'm not a subscriber - but I'll bet it is not quite as the Telegraph article suggests.
I guess he's saying either that it can thrive but not as well as it might do if we stay, or that it can thrive if the government replaces the funding AND the collaborative structures AND free movement of talented researchers AND the links from academia into global industry. i.e. if it stays as it is now, or gets even better. The chances of that are slim to sod all, as he well knows but has to make the case anyway.


I do respect good qualifications, yes. I don't know Muscatelli but I presume (with moderate confidence) that he's no mug if he is chairman of the Russell group.
Maybe we should agree that he is something of an authority. Ok?


Right, with that in mind...

He recently spoke at a People's Vote rally and has said:
"
Brexit is ‘the most unhinged example of national self-sabotage in living memory’

"

Here he is making the case for free movement post brexit:

Here is an open letter to students outlining his personal and institutional views on brexit:

The opening paragraph is this:
"It goes without saying that Brexit is the single biggest public crisis we’ve had to face in living memory. Over the last two and a half years, I’ve been proud to have taken a strong stance against leaving the European Union, in a personal capacity, and to highlight the ways in which the UK turning its back on our European neighbours would leave us diminished in every way."

Diminished. In. Every. Way.

He also writes:
"undoubtedly huge economic damage which will be inflicted if Brexit goes ahead "
"specific impact on the Higher Education sector, through lost funding and access to pan-European networks. "
"I’ve also been clear – and this is perhaps the most depressing aspect of Brexit – that there would be a huge social and cultural cost "



In summary - a great authority on the subject!

Another myth busted
 
Courtesy of the telegraph letters

SIR – How could we think of anyone but Boris Johnson for the top job? After successfully exiting so many relationships (with women), Brexit should really be a piece of cake.
 
Courtesy of the telegraph letters

SIR – How could we think of anyone but Boris Johnson for the top job? After successfully exiting so many relationships (with women), Brexit should really be a piece of cake.

Judging on the newspaper reports, seems he found it difficult to exit at the time it was demanded and certainly didnt 'get out'
 
How the Remainers plan to ensure that Brexit is a failure (telegraph)

Dominic Grieve's latest plan to block no-deal is so destructive, so irresponsible, that it can only be a bluff

It’s come to something when the Remain camp, always keen to embrace the labels of “progressive” and “liberal”, are taking a leaf out of the book of libertarian Tea Party Republican congressmen and women in the United States, who regularly shut down the federal government rather than agree an annual budget. Crucially, they always lose: they are inevitably forced to back down and make concessions that only a few weeks previously they were insisting would never be made.

On Facebook, once again, a spate of Remain MPs have declared their sanctimonious opposition to a no-deal Brexit because of the harm it would inflict on their constituents. We’ve seen this sleight-of-hand before, of course: it is merely cover for the fact that these same MP oppose Brexit in any and every form. This latest parliamentary manoeuvre is about stopping Brexit, not just stopping a “no- deal” Brexit.

But consider the tactic. If the usual suspects behind this amendment are successful, it will mean that if the next prime minister, either deliberately, or because he has refused to seek another extension of Article 50 post-October 31, finds himself leading a non-EU country on November 1, and parliament has not explicitly approved this status, then from that point onwards, the money tap is turned off. Schools, the NHS, pensions – all switched off in an instant.

They haven’t thought this through, have they? Let’s set aside, for the moment, the rather puerile game of who gets the blame, because that would be utterly unimportant. Teachers would walk out of their classrooms, doctors and nurses would down their stethoscopes and bed baths and millions of pensioners would be thrown into poverty. That’s quite an outcome and surely one that would horrify MPs who have spent so much time warning about the negative economic consequences of leaving the EU without a deal.

And what would they do then, once the calendar has turned from October 31 to November 1, once we were officially and irreversibly out of the EU? With our public services frozen and failing, with the most vulnerable people in the land abandoned by the government and their parliament, would our Europhile MPs stand their ground and watch the framework of government fall about our ears just to punish ministers?
 
How the Remainers plan to ensure that Brexit is a failure (telegraph)

Dominic Grieve's latest plan to block no-deal is so destructive, so irresponsible, that it can only be a bluff

It’s come to something when the Remain camp, always keen to embrace the labels of “progressive” and “liberal”, are taking a leaf out of the book of libertarian Tea Party Republican congressmen and women in the United States, who regularly shut down the federal government rather than agree an annual budget. Crucially, they always lose: they are inevitably forced to back down and make concessions that only a few weeks previously they were insisting would never be made.

On Facebook, once again, a spate of Remain MPs have declared their sanctimonious opposition to a no-deal Brexit because of the harm it would inflict on their constituents. We’ve seen this sleight-of-hand before, of course: it is merely cover for the fact that these same MP oppose Brexit in any and every form. This latest parliamentary manoeuvre is about stopping Brexit, not just stopping a “no- deal” Brexit.

But consider the tactic. If the usual suspects behind this amendment are successful, it will mean that if the next prime minister, either deliberately, or because he has refused to seek another extension of Article 50 post-October 31, finds himself leading a non-EU country on November 1, and parliament has not explicitly approved this status, then from that point onwards, the money tap is turned off. Schools, the NHS, pensions – all switched off in an instant.

They haven’t thought this through, have they? Let’s set aside, for the moment, the rather puerile game of who gets the blame, because that would be utterly unimportant. Teachers would walk out of their classrooms, doctors and nurses would down their stethoscopes and bed baths and millions of pensioners would be thrown into poverty. That’s quite an outcome and surely one that would horrify MPs who have spent so much time warning about the negative economic consequences of leaving the EU without a deal.

And what would they do then, once the calendar has turned from October 31 to November 1, once we were officially and irreversibly out of the EU? With our public services frozen and failing, with the most vulnerable people in the land abandoned by the government and their parliament, would our Europhile MPs stand their ground and watch the framework of government fall about our ears just to punish ministers?

Disgraceful
 
What has he said?
The article is so poorly written it doesn't say.
Our system is quite different from the american system of federal shutdowns.
 
Ah, I found a slightly less hysterical version on ITV. Looks like they are just trying to make the vote meaningful. Not getting a budget approved is just abother sort of vote of no confidence. I sincerely doubt that anyone will dies as a result of this move, in striking contrast to the likely deadly outcomes of No Deal. Even Johnson calls his thoughtless 'policy' a "Do or Die" event! The Telegraph should stop brown nosing him and call him out as the useless charlatan he is.

Grieve and have tried to enforce the legally required meaningful vote previously, If the ERG had voted for leaving then we would have left on TM's crappy deal already.

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-06-27...HVcYRBTH_vEgx77-qIUaFzv_wEfPy22NtjRm7LBJQxDIk
 
At least the telegraph reports views from all sides of the argument, unlike the Guardian or the supposed "Independent".
 
At least the telegraph reports views from all sides of the argument, unlike the Guardian or the supposed "Independent".
Does it really? I'm not so sure you can trust them as perfectly balanced. They are certainly admirers of their star columnist.
Of course, they are a tory supporting paper in general. That's fine by me, by the way. Papers can be what they want to be so long as it isn't a monopoly or cartel. The Guardian, Independent and Mirror are pretty small players when stacked against the papers aligned with the right.

In fact, here are the top ten by circulation. Not a lefty amongst them other than the Mirror. Guardian and Independent don't even feature. Of british newspapers, the Mail, Express, Star, Sun and Telegraph posted most pro-leave articles in the run up to the referendum (in that order). http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2016-05-23-uk-newspapers-positions-brexit

There was a very clear print media bias for leave. Coincidentally, they are mostly owned by tax dodging oligarchs. Hmmmm...

1. The Sun
2. Daily Mail
3. The Sun on Sunday
4. Mail On Sunday
5. The Sunday Times
6. Daily Mirror
7. The Times
8. Sunday Mirror
9. Daily Telegraph
10. Daily Star


I do agree with your point about the Independent. Once upon a time the Independent was indeed independent but those days are gone.