Bit of Brexit info required. | Page 95 | Vital Football

Bit of Brexit info required.

Old Red Fart

Vital Football Hero
For while now I've held the view that the EU just might be under threat because it's a mix of very different countries some of which have very different economies and needs. It's a possibility that with the UK withdrawing this might start to happen sooner rather than later. In turn the terms for the withdrawal of the UK might turn out to be a bit better than they might have been.

I might be totally wrong but don't think so. Just maybe not in our time. Well mine anyway.
 

toms

Vital Football Hero
I am.
Through democratic means.
That's what democracy is.

BTW, I never said Brino was impossible. I said it was the most likely outcome but would still be damaging.

Taken to the limit, we can have a 'brexit' where everything stays EXACTLY the same but we don't get to vote for MEPs and our PM wouldn't have a seat at the council table.
i.e. we can choose to pay our subs to the club, we can choose to have regulatory alignment, we can choose to sign up to EU laws and directives, we can choose to have customs arrangement, we can choose to have free movement. That might even be the least damaging outcome but we would be ceding control of our laws, borders, and money in a way which doesn't happen right now. But because we don't have a seat at the table, we wouldn't be members. Sound good? Not to me! You wouldn't notice much change to your life though. Not like No Deal - which would affect everyone negatively.
They should redefine anti democracy by reference to you. The vote must be implemented.

This so called democratic act of yours will cause further division and business uncertainty and/or hasten a Corbyn government.
 

Feco

Vital Squad Member
That the uk will fall under a bus permanently
That won’t happen.
Sort out the Withdrawal bit properly, then we negotiate deals etc with the EU and anyone else who is interested.
All carried out in a professional way that works for everyone concerned.
It will take years to do, in fact it may never be complete, these things are constantly evolving, but at least we go into this phase relatively stable economically with time to get it right.
I do feel that these negotiations may also shape Europe too, you may get what you want by a different route?

The fairytale version is we crash out into who knows where and then are desperate for any deal we can muster. That certainly will not benefit the UK.

I think most people with a little bit of common sense realise that this is the only way realistic way forward.
 

Feco

Vital Squad Member
They should redefine anti democracy by reference to you. The vote must be implemented.

This so called democratic act of yours will cause further division and business uncertainty and/or hasten a Corbyn government.
The ‘will of the people’ voted to leave the EU.

We leave on the 29th March 2019, most likely with no massive damage to our economy.
We are then free to start negotiating trade deals wherever.

You got what you wanted....what’s the problem?
 

in_the_top_one

Vital Football Hero
This will certainly change Europe. Whether we crash out entirely, stay in fully, stay in limbo, stay half in half out, be a rule taker, or whatever other outcome you can envisage.
The brexit referendum has been a game changer.
It would have reformed and evolved anyway. Partly because it needed it and partly just because it always will, but this spectacle has undoubtedly accelerated that markedly.
 

Feco

Vital Squad Member
For while now I've held the view that the EU just might be under threat because it's a mix of very different countries some of which have very different economies and needs. It's a possibility that with the UK withdrawing this might start to happen sooner rather than later. In turn the terms for the withdrawal of the UK might turn out to be a bit better than they might have been.

I might be totally wrong but don't think so. Just maybe not in our time. Well mine anyway.
ORF, I’m not sure that the EU is under threat, but definitely there is a change at the centre. The old guard of the last 20 years are going, there will be new blood, and a new direction. Of that I am sure.
It’s just a pity the UK won’t be inside the organisation influencing these changes, but hopefully this proposed withdrawal deal will allow us to contribute from the outside.

I am a member of a heritage railway. Our previous General Manager was very professional, but to me ran the operation in totally the wrong way, concentrating on infrastructure to much, including an extension to a network rail station.
The money spent meant that the locos and rolling stock didn’t get the attention they needed, and very often we were short of both.
Visitors aren’t bothered about nice infrastructure, they just want to see a big steam engine working.

This guy retired and was replaced by a GM with a completely different outlook. He was actually recommended by the previous guy as his replacement.
The new guy set about sorting out all the things that I felt had been neglected over the previous decade, and next year we will have more than enough locos to go round, and huge variety too.
Thing is though, it’s only now that the work carried out by the previous GM is bearing fruit. Everything he did is now providing great benefits all round. In 50 years, this is probably the best the railway has been. All because he did the bad things and established a solid base to work from. He certainly had a much longer term view than most. His successor is spot on too.

I see the EU as being like that. I don’t necessarily like everything they do, but going forward we will see the benefits.
Maybe not in my lifetime, but that’s not important, we need to keep moving forward.
Unfortunately it seems many don’t look that far forward.
 

toms

Vital Football Hero
The ‘will of the people’ voted to leave the EU.

We leave on the 29th March 2019, most likely with no massive damage to our economy.
We are then free to start negotiating trade deals wherever.

No problem at all

You got what you wanted....what’s the problem?
 

toms

Vital Football Hero
ORF, I’m not sure that the EU is under threat, but definitely there is a change at the centre. The old guard of the last 20 years are going, there will be new blood, and a new direction. Of that I am sure.
It’s just a pity the UK won’t be inside the organisation influencing these changes, but hopefully this proposed withdrawal deal will allow us to contribute from the outside.

I am a member of a heritage railway. Our previous General Manager was very professional, but to me ran the operation in totally the wrong way, concentrating on infrastructure to much, including an extension to a network rail station.
The money spent meant that the locos and rolling stock didn’t get the attention they needed, and very often we were short of both.
Visitors aren’t bothered about nice infrastructure, they just want to see a big steam engine working.

This guy retired and was replaced by a GM with a completely different outlook. He was actually recommended by the previous guy as his replacement.
The new guy set about sorting out all the things that I felt had been neglected over the previous decade, and next year we will have more than enough locos to go round, and huge variety too.
Thing is though, it’s only now that the work carried out by the previous GM is bearing fruit. Everything he did is now providing great benefits all round. In 50 years, this is probably the best the railway has been. All because he did the bad things and established a solid base to work from. He certainly had a much longer term view than most. His successor is spot on too.

I see the EU as being like that. I don’t necessarily like everything they do, but going forward we will see the benefits.
Maybe not in my lifetime, but that’s not important, we need to keep moving forward.
Unfortunately it seems many don’t look that far forward.
You can thank brexiteers for the change to come. Any change to follow is largely down to the vote and Merkel’s disastrous open door immigration policy
 

Feco

Vital Squad Member
You can thank brexiteers for the change to come. Any change to follow is largely down to the vote and Merkel’s disastrous open door immigration policy
I think many factions can claim it was down to them, and to be fair, they have all had a part to play, including Brexiteers.

Thing is though, if the Leave leadership of Boris, Farage, Davis and JRM had had thier way, the outcome would have likely been significantly different, and not positive.
The fact that is not the case is definitely down to remainers.
 

toms

Vital Football Hero
This will certainly change Europe. Whether we crash out entirely, stay in fully, stay in limbo, stay half in half out, be a rule taker, or whatever other outcome you can envisage.
The brexit referendum has been a game changer.
It would have reformed and evolved anyway. Partly because it needed it and partly just because it always will, but this spectacle has undoubtedly accelerated that markedly.
The only change you would have seen unilaterally from Europe is more Europe and less nation state . It should be clear to you that this is not what people want
 

Feco

Vital Squad Member
The only change you would have seen unilaterally from Europe is more Europe and less nation state . It should be clear to you that this is not what people want
No Toms, that’s what yôu want.

I know many Leave voters, and they seriously did not have the capacity to think that deep. For them it was about immigration 100%
 

Lienking

Vital 1st Team Regular
The ‘will of the people’ voted to leave the EU.

We leave on the 29th March 2019, most likely with no massive damage to our economy.
We are then free to start negotiating trade deals wherever.

You got what you wanted....what’s the problem?
I don't see any problem short term, but NO ONE should ever sign a deal that is impossible to end. I really don't know what May is playing at. If she really expects a government to back a deal without proper legal advice, I find that unbelievable. Whether it's three months, six months or even twelve months, any deal has to be able to be ended unilaterally by either party.
 

Feco

Vital Squad Member
I don't see any problem short term, but NO ONE should ever sign a deal that is impossible to end. I really don't know what May is playing at. If she really expects a government to back a deal without proper legal advice, I find that unbelievable. Whether it's three months, six months or even twelve months, any deal has to be able to be ended unilaterally by either party.
I don’t know for definite, but I’m sure there would be some process in which the negotiations could be terminated. The problem with that is, you then end up back in the situation we were a couple of months ago,.....WTO, Irish borders problems etc.

Whatever happens, I don’t think this will be 3, 6 or 12 month process, more like 3, 6 or 12 years. As long as the outcome is right I don’t think time should be the main factor.

The legal talk is for the papers.......the governments position is clear and legal. This is just political posturing.
 

Lienking

Vital 1st Team Regular
I don’t know for definite, but I’m sure there would be some process in which the negotiations could be terminated. The problem with that is, you then end up back in the situation we were a couple of months ago,.....WTO, Irish borders problems etc.

Whatever happens, I don’t think this will be 3, 6 or 12 month process, more like 3, 6 or 12 years. As long as the outcome is right I don’t think time should be the main factor.

The legal talk is for the papers.......the governments position is clear and legal. This is just political posturing.
I didn't say the process would take 3,6, or 12 months, but it shouldn't take more than three years and the notice period would start when either party wants.Deals may take ten years if countries are already trading, but as with Brexit things can be sorted pretty quickly if both parties really want to. The trouble is (as per Parkinson's law) the EU will never actually make a decision early. Given two years they will drag things out to the last moment. We should have told them to get lost in June 2016.
 

Feco

Vital Squad Member
I didn't say the process would take 3,6, or 12 months, but it shouldn't take more than three years and the notice period would start when either party wants.Deals may take ten years if countries are already trading, but as with Brexit things can be sorted pretty quickly if both parties really want to. The trouble is (as per Parkinson's law) the EU will never actually make a decision early. Given two years they will drag things out to the last moment. We should have told them to get lost in June 2016.
Because that would have worked out so well for the UK wouldn’t it?