Bit of Brexit info required.

[in_the_top_one]

Oh

It’s in legislation

1/10. Must try harder.

 

[in_the_top_one]

Don’t you have blind ideology in the eu? You were practically singing ode to joy yesterday

No.

 

[in_the_top_one]

Anyone can make an allegation. Pretty clear the motives why Banks is in court with the electoral commission. He was waving a legal opinion around refuting the new allegations.

It isn't the electoral commission anymore. Its the National Crime Agency.

Even he is entitled to a defence lawyer. Are you proclaiming him innocent in the basis of what he was waving around?

 

[toms]

It isn't the electoral commission anymore. Its the National Crime Agency.

Even he is entitled to a defence lawyer. Are you proclaiming him innocent in the basis of what he was waving around?

Not at all. But I am presuming his innocence. That is a basic principle of our constitution. So accordingly there is no reason to delay anything. The onus is on your side to prove wrongdoing and that it affected the result.

 

[toms]

No.

?

 

[in_the_top_one]

Not at all. But I am presuming his innocence. That is a basic principle of our constitution. So accordingly there is no reason to delay anything. The onus is on your side to prove wrongdoing and that it affected the result.

I genuinely find it disturbing that you don't care. This is you down the ideological rabbit hole.

Is "my side" the rule of law now? Are you ceding the moral high ground?

 

[in_the_top_one]

?

And how many times have I said that if you can show me a better future outside the eu then I would happily vote for it?

 

[in_the_top_one]

Anyone can make an allegation. Pretty clear the motives why Banks is in court with the electoral commission. He was waving a legal opinion around refuting the new allegations.

Despite 2 years of incessant remain campaigning and trying to scupper the vote the recent survation poll has remain at 54 and leave at 46. That’s a knife edge and well within the margin of error and what we saw in the polls before the vote

Once the deal is presented and gets through Parliament that will swing back the other way very very quickly

It probably isn't within the margin of error if based on a poll of 20,000 people.
I posted the error rate for polling data twice for Lienking.

This is also showing remain 8 points up from a starting position of 4 points down. See the trajectory as more info becomes available and reality dawns on many people?

 

[Lienking]

It probably isn't within the margin of error if based on a poll of 20,000 people.
I posted the error rate for polling data twice for Lienking.

This is also showing remain 8 points up from a starting position of 4 points down. See the trajectory as more info becomes available and reality dawns on many people?

How many people did they survey on the actual voting day, with an error of about 2.4 million people!

 

[Feco]

Don’t know what you mean...

No change there then, you do seem struggle to take in and understand information.

 

[Feco]

You are willing to listen to feco because he is on your side. You are willing to accept that what he has told you about the deal and the source as highly plausible. I find it hard to understand how you can trust feco but the suggestions I made about what I think the deal will include are off the chart

It’s ok to be a group thinker. The earth was flat you know

So what are your suggestions Toms? I would love to know......

 

[Feco]

The booklet really doesn’t say anything at all.
No mention of the damage it would do to our currency, a 20% drop against the USD.
Page 5 THE ECONOMIC SHOCK WOULD PUT PRESSURE ON THE POUND.
AS I'VE SAID BEFORE A FALL IN THE CURRENCY ISN'T NECESSARILY BAD. THE ITALIAN ECONOMY HASN'T GROWN IN 20 YEARS BECAUSE THEIR CURRENCY DOESN'T FALL AS IT SHOULD

When you buy and sell raw materials overseas in USD, a 20% reduction in your currencies value against the USD is not good. Also for our financial service sector, they want a strong currency.

No mention of how Leave would be implemented.
YOU LEAVE. IT DOESN'T NEED IMPLEMENTING. THE RELATIONSHIP AFTER THAT IS DOWN TO THE ELECTED GOVERNMENT

Clearly we have seen that this is untrue. Leaving is actually a complex business.
Also leaving future relationships to an elected Government is risky. They change, what happens if the next one is Pro Eu?

No mention of the damage it would do to our service industry, manufacturing industry, agricultural industry.
Page 7 LESS ACCESS TO THE SINGLE MARKET INCLUDING SEVICES....

No detail what that actually meant or the damage it would do to the economy. Now things are a little clearer that look s like one of the understatements of the last decade.

No mention that a two thirds of the immigrants that come to the UK would be totally unaffected by leaving the EU.
636,000 PEOPLE IN A YEAR TWO THIRDS OF WHOM CAME FROM THE EU (201,000 FROM OUTSIDE THE BLOC)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34931725

ONS shows different figures. Who would you trust most?


No mention that flights to and from the UK could be affected or grounded. To be fair BA can manage that withoût Brexit.
NOT HAPPENED
Well we haven’t left yet, so you are correct at th moment. Clearly the Government was worried enough to publish documents saying that this would happen with No deal. Toms will say it was my information, but sadly I’m not HM Goverments publisher. I only reference what they
Publish.

No mention that we would either have to have a Customs Union or Hard Border in Ireland. And if neither happened we would be outside WTO guidelines and open to being systematically at the mercy of every other trading country we try to deal with.
NO REASON FOR A HARD BORDER. UNDER WTO RULES WE ARE AT THE MERCY OF NO ONE. WE CHOOSE WHO WE TRADE WITH AND WHAT TERMS

Under WTO we need to have either a Customs Union with our neighbour or control of our border. That’s pretty clear. Also illegal in the UK under current legislation.
Unfortunately negotiations are slightly more dynamic than that. Maybe the other side have demands too?


No mention that trade deals take, in the main upto a decade to complete, in the meantime you are potentially in limbo.
Page 7 FOR EXAMPLE CANADA's DEAL WITH THE EU HAS SO FAR TAKEN SEVEN YEARS

Seven years and still not ratified fully. The Canada Deal was also much less encompassing than one that the UK would require.

We knew exactly where we stood by remaining within the EU.
NO WE DON'T . WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY WILL COME UP WITH NEXT. THEY ARE TALKING OF RAIDING ITALIAN BANK ACCOUNTS

The future relationship with the EU, including the UK liabilities was clearly laid out in the document produced after Cameron’s negotiations. It certainly had more substance than the Leave Unicon booklet.


Maybe not quite so clear afterall?
THE FUTURE IS NEVER CLEAR

Ahhh that’s age talking.......agree wholeheartedly

 

[toms]

I genuinely find it disturbing that you don't care. This is you down the ideological rabbit hole.

Is "my side" the rule of law now? Are you ceding the moral high ground?

I do care. Criminal activity should be punished. I’ve said this countless times. Now prove to me on a binary choice that money affected the result.

 

[toms]

So what are your suggestions Toms? I would love to know......

I simply thought the deal would let us control our borders, would oblige us to pay due regard to the ecj (rather than adhere) and let us do our own deals. I said I could live with that. Itto says I’ll be disappointed if what you say is true

 

[toms]

No change there then, you do seem struggle to take in and understand information.

Feco why don’t you quote my whole post and respond to it all, rather than picking one line. Itto does the same. Is there a reason you do this?

 

[Feco]

Feco why don’t you quote my whole post and respond to it all, rather than picking one line. Itto does the same. Is there a reason you do this?

You are right.
My comment was really aimed at the one sentence I quoted.
However looking back I should have included all your statement as it would have given my point more credence.

 

[in_the_top_one]

I do care. Criminal activity should be punished. I’ve said this countless times. Now prove to me on a binary choice that money affected the result.

There is plenty of evidence of how much campaign funding affects outcomes. Guess what - that's why winning campaigns are expensive. And that's why people bother to make political donations. The more campaign donations you get, the more likely you are to win. Do I really need to write that down?


I can't prove that the extra money swayed 600,000 people (less than 1.8% of the voters!) during the EU referendum any more than you can prove that it did. It is well within the realms of possibility. The answer is we just don't know. The will of the people has not been clearly determined. That's the problem with cheating, isn't it? Would Anderlecht have won anyway? Or Argentina? Or Ben Johnson? Or Lance Armstrong?
Prove to me that Lance Armstrong's drug taking affected the race? Sounds a bit silly, doesn't it?

 

[Feco]

I simply thought the deal would let us control our borders, would oblige us to pay due regard to the ecj (rather than adhere) and let us do our own deals. I said I could live with that. Itto says I’ll be disappointed if what you say is true

Obviously I’m sure you will understand that I can’t name my source. By the same token, because of that, I fully understand that what I say will be taken with a pinch of salt. That’s a very reasonable stance.

What I can say is I was told this from a high level source who should know what’s happening.

In recent developments there is now a clear definition of the Withdrawal Act and the future relationships.

We leave on the 29th March 2019. On leaving we enter a transitional period that is realistically open ended.
Whilst in the Transition Period, the UK will remain in the Customs Union and have free movement of people.
We can make our own laws, but they will not supersede anything at the ECJ.
We continue to contribute to the EU, but have no say in the future rules and regulations. We won’t have MEP’s
We can start to negotiate with other countries on trade and other relationships. However any deal would not be implemented until the end of the Transition Period.

There is a realization within the Brexit Department that a disorderly exit would be disastrous for the UK.
This process allows for a steady and planned withdrawal, without significant risk to anyone, and allows for a properly negotiated and implemented future agreement.

I can live with that, but I suspect many hard brexiteers won’t. Fortunately they appear to be falling in numbers, so hopefully this will work.

 

[toms]

There is plenty of evidence of how much campaign funding affects outcomes. Guess what - that's why winning campaigns are expensive. And that's why people bother to make political donations. The more campaign donations you get, the more likely you are to win. Do I really need to write that down?

If you can’t prove it the result should stand but certainly the perpetrators of wrongdoing should be punished.


I can't prove that the extra money swayed 600,000 people (less than 1.8% of the voters!) during the EU referendum any more than you can prove that it did. It is well within the realms of possibility. The answer is we just don't know. The will of the people has not been clearly determined. That's the problem with cheating, isn't it? Would Anderlecht have won anyway? Or Argentina? Or Ben Johnson? Or Lance Armstrong?
Prove to me that Lance Armstrong's drug taking affected the race? Sounds a bit silly, doesn't it?

 

[toms]

Obviously I’m sure you will understand that I can’t name my source. By the same token, because of that, I fully understand that what I say will be taken with a pinch of salt. That’s a very reasonable stance.

What I can say is I was told this from a high level source who should know what’s happening.

In recent developments there is now a clear definition of the Withdrawal Act and the future relationships.

We leave on the 29th March 2019. On leaving we enter a transitional period that is realistically open ended.
Whilst in the Transition Period, the UK will remain in the Customs Union and have free movement of people.
We can make our own laws, but they will not supersede anything at the ECJ.
We continue to contribute to the EU, but have no say in the future rules and regulations. We won’t have MEP’s
We can start to negotiate with other countries on trade and other relationships. However any deal would not be implemented until the end of the Transition Period.

There is a realization within the Brexit Department that a disorderly exit would be disastrous for the UK.
This process allows for a steady and planned withdrawal, without significant risk to anyone, and allows for a properly negotiated and implemented future agreement.

I can live with that, but I suspect many hard brexiteers won’t. Fortunately they appear to be falling in numbers, so hopefully this will work.

And after the transition period what happens regarding our dealings with the ecj and free movement because that is key to brexiteers