Not you. The Labour Party
Bit of Brexit info required.
- Thread starter Old Red Fart
- Start date
Not you. The Labour Party
in_the_top_one
Vital Football Legend
What else could they do? Their membership is 9:1 on favour of a People's Vote *and* it makes them more likely to get elected.
Consider the unlikely event that you become Labour chief strategist or chief adviser to corbyn. What would you do? And how would it play out if you ignored the calls?
No room for manoeuvre on either side these days.
Consider the unlikely event that you become Labour chief strategist or chief adviser to corbyn. What would you do? And how would it play out if you ignored the calls?
No room for manoeuvre on either side these days.
They wont get elected. The Conservatives have the majority in parliament and even if there is a general election people are going to have to decide between Brexit and Corbyn. They wont chose Corbyn
They will adopt this fudged wording for the sake of a sniff of power. Not for the love of the EU or for he good of the country..people will see through this
They will adopt this fudged wording for the sake of a sniff of power. Not for the love of the EU or for he good of the country..people will see through this
in_the_top_one
Vital Football Legend
in_the_top_one
Vital Football Legend
Do they?
The DUP don't like the Chequers backstop or No Deal.
Feco
Vital Squad Member
Effectively agreeing to the EU proposal to, as Boris put it, the EU annexing Northern Ireland.
DUP won’t back that......I would also suggest that the ‘checks’ around the Irish border at best infringe on the Good Friday Agreement, at worst blow it out of the water.
It probably doesn’t meet the requirements of the European Withdrawal Bill either.
I’m saddened that we have now got to the point that one region of the UK is deemed less worthy than the rest. Surely Leave means that all regions leave under the same rules or not at all.
Or is it OK to now throw one area under the bus to justify this mess?
radfordinlondon
Vital Football Legend
I fear you might be right but not settled yet
They hate Corbyn even more
in_the_top_one
Vital Football Legend
The misogynist dinosaur deniers do indeed hate him, for sure.
However, I'm not sure they hate him more than the idea of NI being separated in any way from Great Britain! They are pretty consistent on that topic...
However, I'm not sure they hate him more than the idea of NI being separated in any way from Great Britain! They are pretty consistent on that topic...
in_the_top_one
Vital Football Legend
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45625724
While there is much to scorn in this report, my absolute favourite bit is the third from last paragraph.
Reference to detailed economic modeling available in footnote 28..
..footnotes go 26, 27, 29, 30!
That says it all. You couldn't make it up!
Bremen Tree
Vital 1st Team Regular
The author should be renamed Sham-ker Singham
Feco
Vital Squad Member
You could make it up.....afterall, the Leave side have been doing that for nearly 3 years now.
Plenty of opinions, no facts.
Feco
Vital Squad Member
I see today’s latest Brexit story is about blackouts in Northern Ireland because the interconnectors between North and South could be switched off in a no deal situation.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45657966
Now for once I do agree with the Brexiteers crying Project Fear. The Republic would most likely suffer just as much as the North should the links go off.
Without a deal, that will happen as the EU have strict protocols for access to the European Grid Network, as much for safety as anything else. The UK helped write the protocols so we can’t complain if we lose access to the grid because we can’t comply with the legal requirements of connecting. With a no deal we won’t.
What would have been a more accurate statement is that the UK faces blackouts as a whole anyway, through lack of generation capacity. Nothing to do with Brexit.
To some degree we already have ‘planned’ blackouts when some large usage customers are paid by the National Grid to switch off their systems at times of high demand to protect the grid from rolling unplanned blackouts.
With no new significant generation planned in the UK, 10 GW or about 20% of the current generating capacity being shutdown in the next 3 to 4 years, the situation is not going to improve anytime soon.
Should we lose a further 4GW because we cannot access the European Grid, well it’s not hard to figure out where that one will go.
Always a good read.....take 14GW off of the 52GW available in the UK and see where that leaves us......and it’s warm sunny and breezy today. Imagine a cold, dark still December/January evening......
https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
Interesting that only about 7% of the UK ‘real’ generating capacity is British owned, and it relies 100% on fuel imports.
Regarding UK energy, Brexit is an irritation, but the real problems are right here in the UK......home grown again.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45657966
Now for once I do agree with the Brexiteers crying Project Fear. The Republic would most likely suffer just as much as the North should the links go off.
Without a deal, that will happen as the EU have strict protocols for access to the European Grid Network, as much for safety as anything else. The UK helped write the protocols so we can’t complain if we lose access to the grid because we can’t comply with the legal requirements of connecting. With a no deal we won’t.
What would have been a more accurate statement is that the UK faces blackouts as a whole anyway, through lack of generation capacity. Nothing to do with Brexit.
To some degree we already have ‘planned’ blackouts when some large usage customers are paid by the National Grid to switch off their systems at times of high demand to protect the grid from rolling unplanned blackouts.
With no new significant generation planned in the UK, 10 GW or about 20% of the current generating capacity being shutdown in the next 3 to 4 years, the situation is not going to improve anytime soon.
Should we lose a further 4GW because we cannot access the European Grid, well it’s not hard to figure out where that one will go.
Always a good read.....take 14GW off of the 52GW available in the UK and see where that leaves us......and it’s warm sunny and breezy today. Imagine a cold, dark still December/January evening......
https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
Interesting that only about 7% of the UK ‘real’ generating capacity is British owned, and it relies 100% on fuel imports.
Regarding UK energy, Brexit is an irritation, but the real problems are right here in the UK......home grown again.
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With so much going on, it seems to have gone rather quiet on this topic! Not sure what I've missed whilst I've been away, but here are some snippets I have seen.
Laura Smith (Labour MP) calls for a general strike in order to overturn democracy. Would say this was a one off rogue MP, but apparently she got a standing ovation.
The Brexit coordinator Verhofstadt says the EU " will never accept discrimination based on skills and nationality" whilst wanting preferential treatment for EU citizens within the UK. Is that not discrimination on the grounds of EU nationality?
The labour party decided decisively to be indecisive. According to ITTO 90% of labour members want a second referendum (presumably a poll of 1,000 momentum supporters?), despite which the labour party failed to come to any conclusion.
Some interesting snippets on my holiday. Austria is a beautiful clean country which appears to be doing very well despite having virtually no industry. Even the cows looked like they are washed every night!
Stopped every time we crossed the Austrian/German border. Whatever happened to free movement?
Didn't see any portaloos on the Folkestone-Dover road. Did see a lorry park, but that looked like it has been there for years.
Someone on our coach was wished "happy Brexit" by a waiter ! Not being there, I have no idea if they meant it or were being sarcastic!
Laura Smith (Labour MP) calls for a general strike in order to overturn democracy. Would say this was a one off rogue MP, but apparently she got a standing ovation.
The Brexit coordinator Verhofstadt says the EU " will never accept discrimination based on skills and nationality" whilst wanting preferential treatment for EU citizens within the UK. Is that not discrimination on the grounds of EU nationality?
The labour party decided decisively to be indecisive. According to ITTO 90% of labour members want a second referendum (presumably a poll of 1,000 momentum supporters?), despite which the labour party failed to come to any conclusion.
Some interesting snippets on my holiday. Austria is a beautiful clean country which appears to be doing very well despite having virtually no industry. Even the cows looked like they are washed every night!
Stopped every time we crossed the Austrian/German border. Whatever happened to free movement?
Didn't see any portaloos on the Folkestone-Dover road. Did see a lorry park, but that looked like it has been there for years.
Someone on our coach was wished "happy Brexit" by a waiter ! Not being there, I have no idea if they meant it or were being sarcastic!
radfordinlondon
Vital Football Legend
Think everyone is waiting to see what happens in November.
Old Red Fart
Vital Champions League
What's happening with Boris, seems a bit quiet ?
He made a what seems like a positioning speech yesterday. Im not really sure of his game here.
The issue is here that Parliament cannot currently stop a no deal without trying a vote of confidence motion. At the moment Parliament get a meaningful vote on a deal that is presented but if there is no deal, there is nothing to vote on.
Interesting times
Feco
Vital Squad Member
ORF,
The Tory Party is in open Civil War, with Boris on one side and the PM on the other. His speech yesterday was really to emphasize that point. The Tories do this from time to time and are always very vocal about it.
The Labour Party is also in Civil War, just not quite as open as the Tories. While the Tories shout loudly about their disagreements to anyone who will listen, the Labour Party under Citizen Corbyn are much more discreet, in a KGB style.
The Lib Dems would be at Civil War too, but there is only Vince left and he’s retiring next April. Once he realised you needed ar least two sides for a Civil War he changed tactics and now is only concerned at still being recognized enough to get a return invite onto Strictly Come Dancing next year.
The problem is we have a remainer PM trying to lead the negotiations to leave the EU. We have a leaver leader of the opposition trying to ensure we leave the EU whilst ‘demanding’ a Second Referendum to stay in...maybe
The Lib Dem is determined to stay in the EU, at least until the nominations for Strictly are sorted.
This as led to the Chequers Agreement.
Essentially the PM’s plan for the UK to leave. If you ignore the fact that together with the European Withdrawal Act, the process would be illegal, the Agreement has been greeted like this.
The Remainers won’t back it as the plan is unworkable. This, they claim, gives them more ammunition to call for Ref 2. Which would have to be a one question referendum as currently we don’t have any deal, agreement or plan to leave the EU. Sort of ‘Do you want to stay in the EU’
The French will say no anyway.
The Leavers won’t back the plan as it doesn’t give them the ‘Hard’ Brexit they demand and what was voted for in Ref 1. (That bit is not true, the original referendum wasn’t even binding, there was nothing specific mentioned like Hard or Soft in the polling literature.)
The Leavers also don’t believe the plan is workable.
The EU won’t accept the plan as it contravenes some of the basic principles of the EU. This is true, as the UK should know as we helped draw up the rules the PM is now trying to contravene.
The EU also didn’t like how the PM spoke to them over dinner so won’t accept it anyway now....so there!!
The DUP who really are the casting vote on the UK side won’t accept the Plan either, or they may do. It really depends on what further bribes....sorry funding, they can extract from Westminster, and how the Irish Republic and Sin Fein vote. As a matter of principle it will be the opposite.
In the meantime most of the UK car plants are now looking to bring forward their annual shutdowns to April 2019 as they grapple with the problem of stocking more than the 4 hours of parts they keep on their site.
Honda (Japanese) are most concerned that the 350 lorries coming from the EU daily to keep their Swindon plant running will be lost somewhere on the M20 Lorry park that Lienking missed. (It’s being built....honestly https://www.traffic-update.co.uk/motorways/m20.asp. The bit north of Folkestone....Operation Brock)
Toyota (Japanese) are saying similar.
BMW (German) are just shutting their Mini plant for a month.
Land Rover Jaguar (India) are just screaming about the impending Armageddon (on profits) and saying that they may need to relocate from Coventry and Liverpool. The only bit I find strange is that they say ‘may’....really.....you need an excuse to leave Coventry or Liverpool?
Nissan (France.....yes really) are just quietly sniggering in the corner after attracting a very large incentive from the UK government to continue assembly in Sunderland. The subsidy came in very handy paying the EU parts manufacturers who supply the plant, particularly those in France. They don’t care if they run out of parts as nobody buys their cars anyway, and who cares the UK Government makes up the difference in any case
One bit of good news is that the EU have, in principle agreed that British Planes can keep flying in European Airspace after Brexit day, despite the UK not having an established and authorized aviation protocol. It has been agreed that for the time being the EU regulations are maintained. So flights originating from the UK should be able to fly quite normally to Europe on April 1st.
That might disappoint those passengers expecting a direct flight from the UK to say Russia, Africa, China....in fact pretty much anywhere else in the world other than the EU as currently they are not accepting the UK proposals. After all these years operating under the EU banner, unless we have our own approved protocol, we may ONLY be able to fly to the EU.
So ORF you can see why Boris, and Citizen Corbyn are only keen to rattle the cage so much right now.
Who on earth would want to be PM at the moment?
Maybe Vince because he would then be a dead cert for Strictly.
The Tory Party is in open Civil War, with Boris on one side and the PM on the other. His speech yesterday was really to emphasize that point. The Tories do this from time to time and are always very vocal about it.
The Labour Party is also in Civil War, just not quite as open as the Tories. While the Tories shout loudly about their disagreements to anyone who will listen, the Labour Party under Citizen Corbyn are much more discreet, in a KGB style.
The Lib Dems would be at Civil War too, but there is only Vince left and he’s retiring next April. Once he realised you needed ar least two sides for a Civil War he changed tactics and now is only concerned at still being recognized enough to get a return invite onto Strictly Come Dancing next year.
The problem is we have a remainer PM trying to lead the negotiations to leave the EU. We have a leaver leader of the opposition trying to ensure we leave the EU whilst ‘demanding’ a Second Referendum to stay in...maybe
The Lib Dem is determined to stay in the EU, at least until the nominations for Strictly are sorted.
This as led to the Chequers Agreement.
Essentially the PM’s plan for the UK to leave. If you ignore the fact that together with the European Withdrawal Act, the process would be illegal, the Agreement has been greeted like this.
The Remainers won’t back it as the plan is unworkable. This, they claim, gives them more ammunition to call for Ref 2. Which would have to be a one question referendum as currently we don’t have any deal, agreement or plan to leave the EU. Sort of ‘Do you want to stay in the EU’
The French will say no anyway.
The Leavers won’t back the plan as it doesn’t give them the ‘Hard’ Brexit they demand and what was voted for in Ref 1. (That bit is not true, the original referendum wasn’t even binding, there was nothing specific mentioned like Hard or Soft in the polling literature.)
The Leavers also don’t believe the plan is workable.
The EU won’t accept the plan as it contravenes some of the basic principles of the EU. This is true, as the UK should know as we helped draw up the rules the PM is now trying to contravene.
The EU also didn’t like how the PM spoke to them over dinner so won’t accept it anyway now....so there!!
The DUP who really are the casting vote on the UK side won’t accept the Plan either, or they may do. It really depends on what further bribes....sorry funding, they can extract from Westminster, and how the Irish Republic and Sin Fein vote. As a matter of principle it will be the opposite.
In the meantime most of the UK car plants are now looking to bring forward their annual shutdowns to April 2019 as they grapple with the problem of stocking more than the 4 hours of parts they keep on their site.
Honda (Japanese) are most concerned that the 350 lorries coming from the EU daily to keep their Swindon plant running will be lost somewhere on the M20 Lorry park that Lienking missed. (It’s being built....honestly https://www.traffic-update.co.uk/motorways/m20.asp. The bit north of Folkestone....Operation Brock)
Toyota (Japanese) are saying similar.
BMW (German) are just shutting their Mini plant for a month.
Land Rover Jaguar (India) are just screaming about the impending Armageddon (on profits) and saying that they may need to relocate from Coventry and Liverpool. The only bit I find strange is that they say ‘may’....really.....you need an excuse to leave Coventry or Liverpool?
Nissan (France.....yes really) are just quietly sniggering in the corner after attracting a very large incentive from the UK government to continue assembly in Sunderland. The subsidy came in very handy paying the EU parts manufacturers who supply the plant, particularly those in France. They don’t care if they run out of parts as nobody buys their cars anyway, and who cares the UK Government makes up the difference in any case
One bit of good news is that the EU have, in principle agreed that British Planes can keep flying in European Airspace after Brexit day, despite the UK not having an established and authorized aviation protocol. It has been agreed that for the time being the EU regulations are maintained. So flights originating from the UK should be able to fly quite normally to Europe on April 1st.
That might disappoint those passengers expecting a direct flight from the UK to say Russia, Africa, China....in fact pretty much anywhere else in the world other than the EU as currently they are not accepting the UK proposals. After all these years operating under the EU banner, unless we have our own approved protocol, we may ONLY be able to fly to the EU.
So ORF you can see why Boris, and Citizen Corbyn are only keen to rattle the cage so much right now.
Who on earth would want to be PM at the moment?
Maybe Vince because he would then be a dead cert for Strictly.
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