Bit of Brexit info required.

Feco said:
Leavers did such a good job of 'winning' the 2017 GE that the Government they elected has failed on five separate occasions to secure Brexit.
And before you go blaming others, just look at the numbers for the three meaningful votes that TM put forward to get Brexit done.

15th January 2019 1st Meaningful Vote
For 202
Against 402 118 Conservative MPs voted against the Government

12th March 2019 2nd Meaningful Vote
For 242
Against 391 75 Conservative MP's voted against the Government

29th March 2019 3rd Meaningful Vote
For 286
Against 344 34 Conservative MP's voted against the Government

Now if those Tory MP's ( and they include the current PM and most of his cabinet) had supported their Leader and the manifesto they stood for election on, then the numbers would have been such;

15th January 2019 1st Meaningful Vote
For 320
Against 284 Majority for Brexit of 36

12th March 2019 2nd Meaningful Vote
For 317
Against 316 Majority for Brexit of 1

29th March 2019 3rd Meaningful Vote
For 320
Against 310 Majority for Brexit of 10

The only reason Brexit hasn't happened is because the Tory party (including the ERG) the party the 'Leavers' chose couldn't get it done. Nothing to do with Labour, Lib Dems or anyone else.

So we now have another GE which in all likelihood will further divide Parliament, and offers no guarantee that deadlock will be broken. Then what?

I must say though that I am surprised that you 'winners' have chosen such a risky method to finally close Brexit out (assuming that's what BJ really wants). As you 'winners' are on such a roll, surely a straightforward yes/no referendum on BJ's deal would have been a much better and cleaner method. Yes we leave the EU on his deal. No we remain. Why are the 'winners' so scared of getting the job completed?
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We had a vote, we were promised it would be implemented. Why should we have a second referendum. If we did, why should Remain be one of the options?As I've said before it would be more valid to hold deal v no deal. Thirdly if we don't implement the first referendum, what is the point in ever voting in another referendum?

Maybe your acceptance of TMs deal IS because you voted remain. TMs deal was almost Remain v Remain. Corbyn's deal would be even more Remain v Remain. Corbyn says BJs deal is worse than TMs because we are less in their pockets. (Though I don't entirely trust BJ either). Whether a deal is "better" or "worse" depends on whether you start from a Remain or Leave position.
 
Lienking said:
We had a vote, we were promised it would be implemented. Why should we have a second referendum. If we did, why should Remain be one of the options?As I've said before it would be more valid to hold deal v no deal. Thirdly if we don't implement the first referendum, what is the point in ever voting in another referendum?

Maybe your acceptance of TMs deal IS because you voted remain. TMs deal was almost Remain v Remain. Corbyn's deal would be even more Remain v Remain. Corbyn says BJs deal is worse than TMs because we are less in their pockets. (Though I don't entirely trust BJ either). Whether a deal is "better" or "worse" depends on whether you start from a Remain or Leave position.
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The point is though if the Tories had supported TM, as per the last election manifesto they stood on, then Brexit would have happened, irrespective of what any other party did.
Boris’s version is just TM’s deal with Northern Ireland cast aside.
I would have accepted TM’s deal, I can’t accept Boris’s because it would be the end of the union.

I voted Remain, leaving the EU has always seemed ridiculous to me, it makes absolutely no sense whichever way you look at it.
I’m even more convinced of the absurdity of it all by the fact the Leave side cannot even tell me, or agree amongst themselves what Leave actually means.

But....and it’s a big but, I appreciate that in the referendum, no matter how flawed the whole thing was, Leave won the day, and somehow that decision has to be implemented.
However it has to be done with the least amount of disruption and damage to the country and in a manner that means the future relationship with the EU is not destroyed.
The EU is far from perfect, you would have to be the most blinkered Remainer to think it is some sort of utopia, but it our most important trading region and our closest neighbours.

Right now I don’t see how this can be resolved without alienating 50% of the voting population, which means this continued discourse between leave and remain, old and young, north and south will continue.
Saying we won doesn’t change the dynamics, only a change in direction in how this matter is approached.
Unfortunately whilst the Tory party is jumping to the tune of the clown Farage, I don’t see the required change happening.
 
So much for taking back control from the eu and giving to parliament. The revised and subsequently passed withdrawal bill stripped away any oversight by parliament and put it squarely in the hands of an elite few
 
I like how one former MP who didn't stand and another who stood but lost are both in the cabinet again! Totally unaccountable to the people.

Take back control, my arse.
 
Why have this bunch of MPs voted to enable the scrapping of Erasmus?
What harm did that extremely successful programme, that has brought joy, love and enlightenment to literally thousands of lives, ever do to anybody?
Did it suppress wages or prevent us from eating bananas in their natural bended form (the way god intended)?
 
in_the_top_one said:
Why have this bunch of MPs voted to enable the scrapping of Erasmus?
What harm did that extremely successful programme, that has brought joy, love and enlightenment to literally thousands of lives, ever do to anybody?
Did it suppress wages or prevent us from eating bananas in their natural bended form (the way god intended)?
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I assume it's facing being scrapped due to funding. Post wrexit it the UK portion will have to be funded by bojo and his goons. The eu will continue to fund the programme post wrexit.

Babies and bath water spring to mind. Are you surprised?
 
in_the_top_one said:
Why have this bunch of MPs voted to enable the scrapping of Erasmus?
What harm did that extremely successful programme, that has brought joy, love and enlightenment to literally thousands of lives, ever do to anybody?
Did it suppress wages or prevent us from eating bananas in their natural bended form (the way god intended)?
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Yet again you invent something that hasn't happened, then pan the government for something that they haven't done. What is the point of a law saying we "have to do our best" to stay in something. When it comes to a negotiation , why have your hands tied by a meaningless law ? Here's more from the Telegraph.

Funnily enough, several countries are part of Erasmus without being in the EU, such as Turkey and Iceland. In fact, the UK has already agreed, as part of the political declaration with the EU setting out the guidelines for their next phase of talks, that they will include such schemes as Erasmus. That was recognised by Lib Dem MP Layla Moran, who told MPs that her clause only sought to require ministers to do "what they say they want to do". The amendment would not have ensured the UK stayed in Erasmus post-Brexit, merely that it would try its best to do so.

All MPs have dispensed with is excess parliamentary verbiage, rather than any future involvement in Erasmus. By pretending otherwise, Remainers are making fools of themselves. Once the Government hammers out post-Brexit participation in Erasmus, strident claims that the UK was closing the door on students ever using the scheme will just look like another part of Remain's Project Fear.
 
Simply because they cannot be trusted to do what they said they wanted to do.
That's the trouble with having a compulsive liar in the big chair.
 
Retirement....I really don’t have the energy to deal with having to readjust to new standards and practices, particularly when I don’t know what they are.
Nor can I be bothered to fight for access into markets that I have had free access to since we set the business up.
As a U.K. only business, with what we do, it’s just not viable, the market isn’t big enough.
As it stands we are aiming to take our U.K. bow next January. Our very own Withdrawal Act!!
 
Feco said:
Retirement ... Our very own Withdrawal Act!!
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Don't blame you. I took advantage of the post-election market joy to take the profits on offer and sell my investments in all UK companies other than FTSE 100 biggies and reinvest in European & US stocks.
 
Jackdaw said:
Don't blame you. I took advantage of the post-election market joy to take the profits on offer and sell my investments in all UK companies other than FTSE 100 biggies and reinvest in European & US stocks.
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Hope it doesn't come back to bite you Jackdaw.
 
While we are at it, I reckon we should dump Eurovision too.

It seems as though the Dutch have persuaded Floor Jansen to be their entry this year.
There is no chance that the UK could provide any competition to this lady......not that anybody votes for the dross we serve up anyway.

Take your pick, one clip is long the other short, both are incredible.


 
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