Bit of Brexit info required. | Page 239 | Vital Football

Bit of Brexit info required.

Willing to bet you had never heard of Michel Barnier before we had already voted in the referendum?

Same goes for Macron? He came from nowhere to take the presidency in September 2017. The referendum was June 2016.


Calling them the architects of Brexit is utterly laughable.

Coming from nowhere.....how very naieve
 
LOL. None of those things exist. If they are on the table we are either already immune or can veto.

And what of the brexiters thoughts on the NHS?

I hope it’s efficiently run for the benefit of it’s patients and with due regard to sound public finances. How about remainers?
 
Yes, and how it can be undermined.
Voting isn't infallible. Bad decisions can be made for a host of reasons.

I really don't want to bring up Hitler because it rarely helps but, well, Hitler.

And one further point...I told you what would happen if brexit did not go through....you didn’t want to listen and you will no doubt condescendingly put me down....you will see parties in this countries that no one wants to see at both the far right and far left extremes...
 
And one further point...I told you what would happen if brexit did not go through....you didn’t want to listen and you will no doubt condescendingly put me down....you will see parties in this countries that no one wants to see at both the far right and far left extremes...
I'm yet to see the rise of any parties to the left of labour but let's leave that aside for a moment.

I have lamented on here the lack of middle ground for ages. Saying I didn't want to listen is a bit odd. I don't want to be scared away from doing the right thing because of fascists. I'd rather take them on and win the argument. What you're basically saying is, if you don't do what the fascists say then there will be more fascists. So we'd better do what they want. That's appeasement. Fuck that.
 
I hope it’s efficiently run for the benefit of it’s patients and with due regard to sound public finances. How about remainers?
Yes but it will be sold off.

It actually doesn't matter to you as a patient how efficiently it is run so long as it works UNLESS it is publicly owned. So if you want to have any say over that, it better remain in public hands.
It shouldn't be a profit-making entity responsible to unnamed shareholders, it should be responsible to you and me.

IF you think it should be sold to americans, then just come out and say it then argue the toss over whether that will be a net positive for brits. Some leading brexiters have said just that but not many. The others have said they wouldn't dream of touching the NHS but their actions speak differently. TM has not been able to deny that the NHS will be protected in UK-US trade negotiations, and Trump has said that it must be on the table. This isn't scaremongering or project fear any more, this is the future of our free at the point of service health care that all of our families rely on.
 
All eyes on Labour I think. Let's see who wins over their manifesto, will they back a public vote or not. Fence is razor thin now, don't see how Corbyn can stay on it much beyond tuesday.
 
Yes but it will be sold off.

It actually doesn't matter to you as a patient how efficiently it is run so long as it works UNLESS it is publicly owned. So if you want to have any say over that, it better remain in public hands.
It shouldn't be a profit-making entity responsible to unnamed shareholders, it should be responsible to you and me.

IF you think it should be sold to americans, then just come out and say it then argue the toss over whether that will be a net positive for brits. Some leading brexiters have said just that but not many. The others have said they wouldn't dream of touching the NHS but their actions speak differently. TM has not been able to deny that the NHS will be protected in UK-US trade negotiations, and Trump has said that it must be on the table. This isn't scaremongering or project fear any more, this is the future of our free at the point of service health care that all of our families rely on.

Depends how it's handled. If we get a better service free at the point of delivery, why shouldn't some of it be privatised? Pretty clear the NHS needs a shake up. I worked there 20 years ago and could tell you some stories that would make you both laugh and cry. The worst thing is my son works there 20 years later, and they are still making the same mistakes !!
 
Some interesting pieces out there, one that caught my eye suggested after seeing the mess the UK has made of brexit europeans euroscepticism has reduced.

Possibly the most useful thing, if perhaps the only useful thing to come from brexit so far
 
Depends how it's handled. If we get a better service free at the point of delivery, why shouldn't some of it be privatised? Pretty clear the NHS needs a shake up. I worked there 20 years ago and could tell you some stories that would make you both laugh and cry. The worst thing is my son works there 20 years later, and they are still making the same mistakes !!

PFI anyone? Prisons?

Thought not.

Partnership with the private sector does not work in all (Some would argue any) sectors dealing with social policy
 
PFI anyone? Prisons?

Thought not.

Partnership with the private sector does not work in all (Some would argue any) sectors dealing with social policy

Many (if not all, depending on your definition) gp surgeries are privately run. Don't see any problems there that we wouldn't have if they were incorporated fully into the NHS. What if some treatments currently offered only by going abroad were brought over? As I've said depends how it is managed, and that the companies are properly checked. I'm sure there are some great companies, and some terrible ones too.
 
Given the consistency of mistakes over the last twenty years, which ones do you think we would get?

Can't say as I know much about privatisation, but I would guess there are plenty we never hear of that are working well, but it suits the political agenda to publicise those that don't. On the other hand the NHS tends to get good publicity. We have still had Stafford, Gosport, Shrewsbury, Bristol, Morecambe Bay and numerous others without any assistance from the private sector.
 
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Many (if not all, depending on your definition) gp surgeries are privately run. Don't see any problems there that we wouldn't have if they were incorporated fully into the NHS. What if some treatments currently offered only by going abroad were brought over? As I've said depends how it is managed, and that the companies are properly checked. I'm sure there are some great companies, and some terrible ones too.

Therein lies the rub, if it's private it needs monitoring, there are conflicts of interest and it generally ends up costing more.

Moreover companies only like to do the profitable bits and leave the rest.

Gp consortiums have been a failure imo, little or no obvious benefits, large costs.

It's not just about management, it's also about legitimacy and accountability. The standards for public service must be higher than for buying a mars bar
 
Can't say as I know much about privatisation, but I would guess there are plenty we never hear of that are working well, but it suits the political agenda to publicise those that don't. On the other hand the NHS tends to get good publicity. We have still had Stafford, Gosport, Shrewsbury, Bristol, Morecambe Bay and numerous others without any assistance from the private sector.

Think there is inefficiency in the nhs but, importantly imo, it is not down to profit making or cost savings (quite a few would disagree about savings). More to do with sheer scale. People forget the nhs is among the largest employers with around 1m staff.

It also spends a billion quid every year, give or take.

Not sure there is any comparable private sector organisation
 
Final point on this, if you privatise health then u must move to a social insurance model.

The European models are way better than the US, which is simply a disgrace, none of them more effective than the nhs tho. Pound for pound, the most efficient service in the world.
 
Final point on this, if you privatise health then u must move to a social insurance model.

The European models are way better than the US, which is simply a disgrace, none of them more effective than the nhs tho. Pound for pound, the most efficient service in the world.

There is no link between who supplies services and how they are paid for. I wouldn't recommend it, but the entire NHS could be privatised, and still be free at the point of delivery. Some competition however brings the NHS out of its complacency.
 
There is no link between who supplies services and how they are paid for. I wouldn't recommend it, but the entire NHS could be privatised, and still be free at the point of delivery. Some competition however brings the NHS out of its complacency.

U suggest competition would impact complacency- no evidence of complacency so I'll go with inefficiency. If inefficiency was down to market forces then your strategy might work. If inefficiency is down to size as I assert then your strategy is not only pointless it would be expensively ineffective.