Bit of Brexit info required. | Page 118 | Vital Football

Bit of Brexit info required.

Think all the MP's who believe there should be a second referendum " as people have changed their minds" should put their seats up for grabs, as people may have changed their minds on them too. I voted for Anna Soubry who said she would respect the referendum result. Now look what she is saying. Most of the Labour and quite a few Conservatives stood on a ticket of respecting the referendum result.
 
I think all those people who presented Brexit as a utopia that would make Britain ‘Great’ again, should be held accountable.
Just like you Lienking, I guess I will be disappointed.

You now have two clear options, the deal as is, or no Brexit.
There is no need for a second referendum anymore, that power is within the hands of MP’s should the deal be voted down.
It’s now time to put aside all the party politics and make a decision. We all know what the game is, if the MP’s can’t vote for the deal, then the obvious and only choice is No Brexit.

And if you are not happy with that, you have the chance to remove your MP in a couple of years time.
 
I think all those people who presented Brexit as a utopia that would make Britain ‘Great’ again, should be held accountable.
Just like you Lienking, I guess I will be disappointed.

You now have two clear options, the deal as is, or no Brexit.
There is no need for a second referendum anymore, that power is within the hands of MP’s should the deal be voted down.
It’s now time to put aside all the party politics and make a decision. We all know what the game is, if the MP’s can’t vote for the deal, then the obvious and only choice is No Brexit.

And if you are not happy with that, you have the chance to remove your MP in a couple of years time.

Unless the Conservatives sack Anna Soubry, I really can't wait to vote in an election where I have a choice between her, the Corbyn Party, the Liberals or the UKIP/BNP Party.

You say that MP's who said Brexit would be Utopia should stand down. Of course unlike the two faced "second referendum " MP's we don't actually know whether or not Brexit will be Utopia.
 
Should have your chance on the 5th May 2022.
I’m not sure that an MP can be sacked....they can withdraw the whip, which right now I should think is probably not the best idea for the Tories
I don’t say the those who promised the easiest deal in history etc should stand down, they should be held accountable, a different thing.
Nothing they said had substance then, it doesn’t now. They don’t have a clue.

This is Brexit, this is what it looks like, now either accept it, or it’s no Brexit......quite simple.
That power is now within the grasp of Parliament, make the decision, no need for any new referendum.
 
Should have your chance on the 5th May 2022.
I’m not sure that an MP can be sacked....they can withdraw the whip, which right now I should think is probably not the best idea for the Tories
I don’t say the those who promised the easiest deal in history etc should stand down, they should be held accountable, a different thing.
Nothing they said had substance then, it doesn’t now. They don’t have a clue.

This is Brexit, this is what it looks like, now either accept it, or it’s no Brexit......quite simple.
That power is now within the grasp of Parliament, make the decision, no need for any new referendum.

You keep saying "this is what it looks like" or no Brexit. That suits your agenda, but of course we don't know what it looks like. WTO or Canada give a proper leave, but as I've said before to a large extent I couldn't really care less what we go for as long as by 31/12/2020 we have the right to say goodbye if that's what we want. This leaves Norway , a deal or numerous options open.

As I've said before, as long as we leave on 29/03/2019 the world doesn't come to an end, and any deals can still be negotiated afterwards.
 
You keep saying "this is what it looks like" or no Brexit. That suits your agenda, but of course we don't know what it looks like. WTO or Canada give a proper leave, but as I've said before to a large extent I couldn't really care less what we go for as long as by 31/12/2020 we have the right to say goodbye if that's what we want. This leaves Norway , a deal or numerous options open.

As I've said before, as long as we leave on 29/03/2019 the world doesn't come to an end, and any deals can still be negotiated afterwards.

The deal negotiated clearly suits your agenda too as it gives you all the things you want. It’s very clear what is on offer and what we get.

WTO, Canada, Norway are all things to discuss post withdrawal, not now we have the Transition Period to deal with the next two years.

If this withdrawal bill can’t be agreed, then clearly it’s no Brexit.
You are quite correct, the world doesn’t come to an end 29/03/2019, where you are wrong is that future deals can only be negotiated after that date.
 
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My agenda is nothing more than fulfilling a democratic vote though. Article 50 doesn't say anything about a transition period. The EU being the EU won't sort anything out because their rules wouldn't want anyone leaving with any certainty. So we just leave . We have had nearly three years to prepare for this.
 
My agenda is nothing more than fulfilling a democratic vote though. Article 50 doesn't say anything about a transition period. The EU being the EU won't sort anything out because their rules wouldn't want anyone leaving with any certainty. So we just leave . We have had nearly three years to prepare for this.

Which bit of Transition Period do you not understand?
It’s been agreed, it just needs Parliament to approve it.
The ‘democratic’ vote gave no detail on how we leave, just that we would, accept the deal, we leave on schedule and can negotiate the future. That is the transition period, and in theory can last until 31/12/2099. Backstop is not an issue.
Right now we have the equivalent of punching the pub landlord in the face, and then wondering why he won’t serve you in the future.
It’s this deal or no Brexit.
 
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It's always looked like a real mess to me, partly because I'm not in possession of all of the facts, but today the UK does appear to have its feet stuck in mud. What a shambles.
 
Which bit of Transition Period do you not understand?
It’s been agreed, it just needs Parliament to approve it.
The ‘democratic’ vote gave no detail on how we leave, just that we would, accept the deal, we leave on schedule and can negotiate the future. That is the transition period, and in theory can last until 31/12/2099. Backstop is not an issue.
Right now we have the equivalent of punching the pub landlord in the face, and then wondering why he won’t serve you in the future.
It’s this deal or no Brexit.

What part of article 50 says anything about a transition period? My understanding is you implement article 50 and have UP TO 2 years to sort things out. After that you can just leave. ( I would guess you could leave within the first two years if you wanted, too).

What transition deal has been agreed? If Parliament doesn't agree it , there is no transition deal. I don't suppose Parliament will allow it unfortunately , but unless something is passed, we just leave on the 29th March, as that is what has been voted through so far.

No deal is the legal default. To stop it Parliament has to vote something else through.
 
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What part of article 50 says anything about a transition period? My understanding is you implement article 50 and have UP TO 2 years to sort things out. After that you can just leave. ( I would guess you could leave within the first two years if you wanted too).
Article 50 is the notification that a country is leaving, it has nothing to do with how.

The Transition Period has been negotiated to allow an orderly change from being in the EU to not being in the EU. That’s nothing to do with Article 50 and wouldn’t be mentioned in it.
It seems that the process has now be muddied so much that no one understands it anymore....or don’t want to.
We negotiate how we leave, once agreed, we negotiate the future. In the period between leaving and having future arrangements in place, the Transition Period allows for continuing relationships without significant damage. Provisions are in place to ensure that the Transition Period can be extended until the agreement is in place.
The Backstop should never be needed....certainly until after 31/12/2099.

A Leave Deal has been negotiated, if that is not acceptable to Parliament, then No Brexit should now be the default position, something the Right Honourable Member for Rushcliffe stated. I’m sure he probably knows.
 
It's always looked like a real mess to me, partly because I'm not in possession of all of the facts, but today the UK does appear to have its feet stuck in mud. What a shambles.

It’s an absolute shambles ORF.
One of the major problems is that in 2016, nobody was in possession of the full facts, indeed any facts. Maybe if we had of been, this mess would have been avoided.

Anger is building, I am genuinely concerned that civil disobedience is getting closer because everyone is getting more entrenched in their positions.
The deal won’t change, it is what it is, something has to give, and I’m not sure anyone will.
Where we go from there is anyone’s guess.
 
That's why I think we need a democratic mandate.
Your suggestion of parliament just rejecting it - much as they would wish to - is wishful thinking because there will be a lot of angry people pointing back at the nonsense of 2016.
 
The impression that I've been getting for a while now is that if all the facts had been available a couple of years ago then the resulting vote might have been quite different. Hindsight's easy isn't it ?
What I don't see though is where do we go from here.