Bit of Brexit info required. | Page 100 | Vital Football

Bit of Brexit info required.

in_the_top_one

Vital Football Hero
Or me. Whatever.

!! BREXIT THREAD PARTY!!

๐Ÿฅž๐Ÿง€๐Ÿ–๐Ÿ—๐Ÿฅ™๐Ÿฅ“๐Ÿ”๐ŸŸ๐Ÿ•๐ŸŒญ๐ŸŒฎ๐ŸŒฏ๐Ÿฅ™๐Ÿฅš๐Ÿณ๐Ÿฟ๐Ÿฅ—๐Ÿฒ๐Ÿฅ˜๐Ÿฅ–๐Ÿฅ๐Ÿž๐ŸŒฐ๐Ÿฅœ๐Ÿ„๐Ÿฅ’๐ŸŒถ๏ธ๐ŸŒฝ๐Ÿฅ”๐Ÿ†๐Ÿฅ‘๐Ÿ…๐Ÿ“๐Ÿ’๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ๐Ÿ๐ŸŽ๐Ÿ๐ŸŒ๐Ÿ‹๐Ÿ‰๐Ÿˆ๐Ÿ‡๐Ÿ™†โ€โ™‚๏ธ๐Ÿ™†โ€โ™‚๏ธ๐Ÿ™†โ€โ™‚๏ธ๐Ÿ™†โ€โ™€๏ธ๐Ÿ™†โ€โ™€๏ธ๐Ÿ™†โ€โ™€๏ธ๐Ÿ’ƒ๐Ÿ’ƒ๐Ÿ•บ๐Ÿ•บ๐Ÿคธโ€โ™‚๏ธ๐Ÿคธโ€โ™€๏ธ

@Old Red Fart
@Feco @toms @Lienking @RedBasie @Bremen Tree @AdebolaCornflakes
@Ingy
 
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in_the_top_one

Vital Football Hero
Happy BRINO Day everyone!


In all seriousness, I've enjoyed most of this discussion and learnt a lot. Some things from other posters on both sides and I've also had to look quite a few things up. I'm much more knowledgeable than at the start. Thanks for your contributions.
 

Lienking

Vital 1st Team Regular
Happy BRINO Day everyone!


In all seriousness, I've enjoyed most of this discussion and learnt a lot. Some things from other posters on both sides and I've also had to look quite a few things up. I'm much more knowledgeable than at the start. Thanks for your contributions.
Enjoyed it too. Think there may still be another hundred pages in this though!
 

Old Red Fart

Vital Football Hero
Enjoyed it too. Think there may still be another hundred pages in this though!
I'll second that, I've enjoyed it too and learned a lot , much more than I could have managed from the local news over here. And I think there will be at least another 100 pages when all the facts are known come the end of March. Might even come to fisticuffs at that time.

Well done lads. :cheers:
 

Feco

Vital Squad Member
Happy BRINO Day everyone!


In all seriousness, I've enjoyed most of this discussion and learnt a lot. Some things from other posters on both sides and I've also had to look quite a few things up. I'm much more knowledgeable than at the start. Thanks for your contributions.
Agree with all that.

I think today will be very telling, if Mrs May gets through, then I think itโ€™s game on.
If not......who knows.

Since the conference she has managed to exert some element of control on the Tories. Iโ€™m pretty sure she wouldnโ€™t have triggered this without some level of confidence she can get it through.
I was told this should have happened last week, as the deal was done then. It seems as though something in Westminster wasnโ€™t right then, or she wasnโ€™t confident of the support.

Away from the cameras last night, there was a few smiles of relief going around. It was only those from both sides with something politically personal to lose who werenโ€™t happy.

Should be good theatre today
 

toms

Vital Football Hero
If it's being reported that we can be held in a customs union forever...without being able to do our own trade deals and with having to follow EU rules...and without an obligation on the EU to negotiate this is not Brexit and the only thing you can surmise is that May's previous speeches were misleading at best.

I cant see how any MP can vote for this deal if the above is true.

If I were the EU Id keep saying we cant find a trade deal that works. What is not clear is whether we have to pay money to be in the customs union
 

Feco

Vital Squad Member
If it's being reported that we can be held in a customs union forever...without being able to do our own trade deals and with having to follow EU rules...and without an obligation on the EU to negotiate this is not Brexit and the only thing you can surmise is that May's previous speeches were misleading at best.

I cant see how any MP can vote for this deal if the above is true.

If I were the EU Id keep saying we cant find a trade deal that works. What is not clear is whether we have to pay money to be in the customs union
Toms, I think we will be in the CU whilst in the transition period, and I do think that will be an open ended period. I do think that the UK can end this unilaterally if needed. We all know what that means for the Irish Border.
I do think we will be able to negotiate our own deals though. If thatโ€™s the case, then itโ€™s a good negotiating tool to go back to the EU with.

I donโ€™t expect much detail on how the future relationship with Brussels will be in todayโ€™s speech, however, Iโ€™m getting the impression that rather than a completely new deal with the EU, in future it will be a realignment of the UKโ€™s current relationship with the remaining states over time.

That makes sense as it removes many of the technical problems associated with a sudden stop, and allows the whole process to mature based on experiences we face
I think ultimately that would make the transition process quicker.

It was interesting last night that there were very few leaks from those that have seen the documents, and very little sign of some of the โ€˜leaverโ€™ ministers (Fox, Gove etc) throwing thier toys out of the pram.
Maybe it is a workable document?

I guess we find out soon.
 

toms

Vital Football Hero
Toms, I think we will be in the CU whilst in the transition period, and I do think that will be an open ended period. I do think that the UK can end this unilaterally if needed. We all know what that means for the Irish Border.
I do think we will be able to negotiate our own deals though. If thatโ€™s the case, then itโ€™s a good negotiating tool to go back to the EU with.

I donโ€™t expect much detail on how the future relationship with Brussels will be in todayโ€™s speech, however, Iโ€™m getting the impression that rather than a completely new deal with the EU, in future it will be a realignment of the UKโ€™s current relationship with the remaining states over time.

That makes sense as it removes many of the technical problems associated with a sudden stop, and allows the whole process to mature based on experiences we face
I think ultimately that would make the transition process quicker.

It was interesting last night that there were very few leaks from those that have seen the documents, and very little sign of some of the โ€˜leaverโ€™ ministers (Fox, Gove etc) throwing thier toys out of the pram.
Maybe it is a workable document?

I guess we find out soon.
I hope so because we have to be able to be able to complete deals with other countries at the end of the implementation period
 

in_the_top_one

Vital Football Hero
It will probably allow us to negotiate deals but not have them come into effect until after the transition.
However, how easy will those deals external to the eu be to complete if the UK's future relationship with the eu is still up in the air / subject to change?
 

Feco

Vital Squad Member
Very interesting, the place is on a tighter lock down than the Old Girl at transfer time.
Lots of people saying things, but they genuinely donโ€™t know the full story, very much 2+2=5. Lots of snippets but no real substance, so itโ€™s hard to make any real sense of what is in the document. Itโ€™s being very well managed by number 10.

I canโ€™t find anything more than I did a couple of weeks ago, according to what Iโ€™ve been told today, by a different source, everything that I was told before still stands.

I still think there is a lot of political maneuvering going on, mainly to discredit Boris, JRM and Davis. They are becoming very isolated.

Heading home now, it will probably all have changed by the time I get there.
 

mao tse tung

Vital 1st Team Regular
It will probably allow us to negotiate deals but not have them come into effect until after the transition.
However, how easy will those deals external to the eu be to complete if the UK's future relationship with the eu is still up in the air / subject to change?
Do you honestly believe there will be any negotiation with the likes of USA or China on Trade?

Deals will be imposed by Trump and Xi and there will be fuck all the Country can do about it, regardless of who is in charge
 

Lienking

Vital 1st Team Regular
Do you honestly believe there will be any negotiation with the likes of USA or China on Trade?

Deals will be imposed by Trump and Xi and there will be fuck all the Country can do about it, regardless of who is in charge
That's ludicrous. Countries only sign a deal if they are getting a benefit from it. Outside the EU there are 200 countries to choose from.We are still the sixth largest economy in the world.
 

Feco

Vital Squad Member
Thing is Mao, do you really think we will ever get to that point?

All that is happening now is the agreement to โ€˜leaveโ€™ the EU has been drafted that will change our current position as little as possible after Brexit day, now Mrs May has to sell it to Westminster.

Once we do โ€˜leaveโ€™ then we have to start negotiating new deals with everyone, which will take years.

In the meantime, things change. In the case of the US, Trump has 6 years left at most, I doubt very much we would get a deal sorted in that time. So if a deal with the US was ever agreed it is likely to be with a totally different administration to the one currently in the White House. Who knows how that will work out?

Barnier, Juncker and Merkel will also all have gone. The likelihood is that the Australian PM will be gone by the year end in fact they could have had two by then.

In the meantime we maintain some sort of umbrella of the EU whilst we find out that doing trade deals with other countries that will lead to an improvement in the UKโ€™s position are nearly impossible to achieve.

Ultimately, when we do get a deal with the EU it will look pretty much as things do now, and every other Trade deal negotiations will be irrelevant.

This is definitely BRINO!!
 

mao tse tung

Vital 1st Team Regular
That's ludicrous. Countries only sign a deal if they are getting a benefit from it. Outside the EU there are 200 countries to choose from.
We will not get a deal with Trump on anything like the favourable terms we have now; just look at what Canada and Mexico have had to endure through so called renegotiation.

Deals are done on his terms, and if you want to sell into the States you put up with it; the alternative is face sanctions in the guise of excessive tariffs that render you uncompetitive.

Dealing with Trump will be a piece of cake compared with what China will be like.

We already sell into all of those 200 countries you allude to, some of which we will no doubt get better deals with; unfortunately it wont be the ones that matter.
 

mao tse tung

Vital 1st Team Regular
Thing is Mao, do you really think we will ever get to that point?

All that is happening now is the agreement to โ€˜leaveโ€™ the EU has been drafted that will change our current position as little as possible after Brexit day, now Mrs May has to sell it to Westminster.

Once we do โ€˜leaveโ€™ then we have to start negotiating new deals with everyone, which will take years.

In the meantime, things change. In the case of the US, Trump has 6 years left at most, I doubt very much we would get a deal sorted in that time. So if a deal with the US was ever agreed it is likely to be with a totally different administration to the one currently in the White House. Who knows how that will work out?

Barnier, Juncker and Merkel will also all have gone. The likelihood is that the Australian PM will be gone by the year end in fact they could have had two by then.

In the meantime we maintain some sort of umbrella of the EU whilst we find out that doing trade deals with other countries that will lead to an improvement in the UKโ€™s position are nearly impossible to achieve.

Ultimately, when we do get a deal with the EU it will look pretty much as things do now, and every other Trade deal negotiations will be irrelevant.

This is definitely BRINO!!
It is definitely possible; just look at how fast Trump has acted when there has been a benefit for him.

There is a huge upside in striking a deal with us; all we have to do is significantly lower our standards on agricultural imports and open the NHS up to American Insurance business and we will have a deal before you can blink.

You are also assuming this deal will be accepted; I cant see that happening.
 

Feco

Vital Squad Member
The Trump administration hasnโ€™t negotiated a new deal yet, only made changes to existing one.
I know what you mean though, I donโ€™t think many Mexican car workers were too upset in the renegotiated NAFTA. Same could apply here.

I guess we will find out very shortly if the deal is moving forward.....
 

Feco

Vital Squad Member
This deal, no deal or no Brexit......that last one wasnโ€™t mentioned last week.
Wonder what changed to make that an option?

We know that technically and legally no deal is not an option, so that narrows things down a little.....

I bet the odds of another referendum have just been slashed.