Bill Borrows Column: Do Man United need to go down to rebuild?

fifthcolumnblue

fifthcolumnblue

Vital Football Legend
Ferguson was indeed worth at least 10 points a season to them.

Probably 12-15 last season.

Good riddance. Will they be relegated? EXTREMELY unlikely. Will they miss out on Europe? Maybe.

But I enjoy watching those moaning, cheating, arrogant bitches in turmoil.

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Bill Borrows Column: Do Man United need to go down to rebuild?

It was the look on the face that said it all.

The look on the face of Rafael as he went tumbling in the penalty area against Southampton during the period of the game previously known as 'Fergie Time'on Saturday. Play on.

He looked like a little boy whose dad just told him that Father Christmas didn't really exist and, consequently, would be getting no presents this year. Or indeed next. I'd like to say that this brings me absolutely no pleasure at all. But I'd be lying.

After a poor run both home and away, the papers, predictably overexcited about a new story to overanalyse, have been moved to talk about the 'fear factor' disappearing from Old Trafford with the retirement of Sir Alex Ferguson.

David Moyes shrugged: "I think the fear factor is from the team on the pitch, that's always the case, obviously Sir Alex has a great history, but the players will always be what matters on the pitch."

He's wrong. On two counts. And he knows it.

First, this ageing United team don't scare anybody. Second, vitally, it's not just the opposition players who are untroubled by appearing at Old Trafford. It's the referees and their assistants.

It's a pretty well-known stat, but between 1993 and 2003, only two away teams converted a penalty at Old Trafford in the league. That was Sheffield Wednesday's John Sheridan, and Ruel Fox for Norwich. That's two in 10 years. It took a while for Ferguson to upgrade his hairdryer to a paint-stripper, but once he found the correct setting it counted for 10 points a season.

To perhaps push the analogy too far, Moyes taking a match official to one side for 'clarification' after a game must be like dealing with a chihuahua's fart – not something you'd wish for as a referee or linesman, but essentially inconsequential and easily forgotten.

Frank O'Farrell was the anointed successor to Matt Busby in 1971, and given a five-year contract at Old Trafford. "We finished eighth, which wasn't bad considering the rebuilding job we had to do, but it was disappointing having been top," he has just told the authors of brilliant new book, 'The Lost World of Football'.

He goes on: "Managers were made scapegoats for what Matt Busby hadn't done in the latter part of his career... they had to go down to the Second Division to rebuild."

United are currently eighth. Just saying…

Read more at http://talksport.com/football/bill-borrows-column-do-man-united-need-go-down-rebuild-13102465362#6MhFPIqchIWIwOg4.99

 
Slur was worth 10 points against the clubs main rivals, and that's what made the difference. Now that he's no longer berating officials and linesmen they aren't getting cheap penalties and off side goals. I hope they finish mid-table and can't fund a transfer bonanza. It would take them a long time to rebuild.
 
Would need to happen a few seasons in a row, as they still seem to be capable of attracting £300m for a 5 year deal with Nike.

Losing out on the CL would definitely hit their balance sheet, but losing some of their sponsorship deals would cripple them.
 
Yup - their business model appears to rely heavily on them winning, so I fully expect to see them buying big style to ensure that any blip is temporary
 
Therein lies the problem Fifth, they are now too powerful financially to ever be out of the running.
 
Well, can they still buy big like they used to, citizhun? They lost out on Pogba and Morrisson, two of their own Academy graduates, who no longer wanted to stay with the club. Teams in Italy are resurgent, France is now becoming a destination, Germany looks more and more attractive, and Spain has the two most "glorious" football teams on the planet. The rags have an aging stadium and a manager who doesn't know what he's doing. They could be in serious trouble.
 
If needs be they have the money Philly, if it looked like they may miss out on CL revenue you can be assured they'd spend to ensure that doesn't happen. As it stands they don't need to invest heavily as they are bringing in the big bucks to help service that debt.
 
PhillyBlueMoon - 25/10/2013 20:54

Well, can they still buy big like they used to, citizhun? They lost out on Pogba and Morrisson, two of their own Academy graduates, who no longer wanted to stay with the club. Teams in Italy are resurgent, France is now becoming a destination, Germany looks more and more attractive, and Spain has the two most "glorious" football teams on the planet. The rags have an aging stadium and a manager who doesn't know what he's doing. They could be in serious trouble.
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I'm not sure how any of the points you've made affect their ability to spend at this point. :thinking: Arguably if they have a very bad season this year potential targets might look at Moyes as a liability and may decide to go elsewhere, but it won't be because the money isn't there. They have the biggest (in good nick) stadium in the league. The other points affect us every bit as much don't they?
 
citizhun - 26/10/2013 12:53

PhillyBlueMoon - 25/10/2013 20:54

Well, can they still buy big like they used to, citizhun? They lost out on Pogba and Morrisson, two of their own Academy graduates, who no longer wanted to stay with the club. Teams in Italy are resurgent, France is now becoming a destination, Germany looks more and more attractive, and Spain has the two most "glorious" football teams on the planet. The rags have an aging stadium and a manager who doesn't know what he's doing. They could be in serious trouble.
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I'm not sure how any of the points you've made affect their ability to spend at this point. :thinking: Arguably if they have a very bad season this year potential targets might look at Moyes as a liability and may decide to go elsewhere, but it won't be because the money isn't there. They have the biggest (in good nick) stadium in the league. The other points affect us every bit as much don't they?
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I'd call it serviceable rather than in good nick.

Went last summer for an Olympic football game (Japan V Egypt if you must know), and I was quite shocked at how shabby it all was. Chunks missing out of the concrete walls, wonky seats, peeling floors in the concourse and ancient toilets - was in the SAF stand.

My previous experiences have been in the away end, and that's not overly impressive either.

So whilst it's not exactly about to fall down, it's certainly showing it's age.

P.S. Still don't understand how they can get away with stairs that are over 12 inches in tread height. Had to physically lift my daughter over them to get out of the place, and saw someone else trip down them. Shambles.
 
fifthcolumnblue - 26/10/2013 19:45

citizhun - 26/10/2013 12:53

PhillyBlueMoon - 25/10/2013 20:54

Well, can they still buy big like they used to, citizhun? They lost out on Pogba and Morrisson, two of their own Academy graduates, who no longer wanted to stay with the club. Teams in Italy are resurgent, France is now becoming a destination, Germany looks more and more attractive, and Spain has the two most "glorious" football teams on the planet. The rags have an aging stadium and a manager who doesn't know what he's doing. They could be in serious trouble.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how any of the points you've made affect their ability to spend at this point. :thinking: Arguably if they have a very bad season this year potential targets might look at Moyes as a liability and may decide to go elsewhere, but it won't be because the money isn't there. They have the biggest (in good nick) stadium in the league. The other points affect us every bit as much don't they?
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I'd call it serviceable rather than in good nick.

Went last summer for an Olympic football game (Japan V Egypt if you must know), and I was quite shocked at how shabby it all was. Chunks missing out of the concrete walls, wonky seats, peeling floors in the concourse and ancient toilets - was in the SAF stand.

My previous experiences have been in the away end, and that's not overly impressive either.

So whilst it's not exactly about to fall down, it's certainly showing it's age.

P.S. Still don't understand how they can get away with stairs that are over 12 inches in tread height. Had to physically lift my daughter over them to get out of the place, and saw someone else trip down them. Shambles.
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I know what you mean, Fifth. The place is over 100 years old, and is restricted by its' location. Public highway on one side, railway on the other, backed by housing, canal in the vicinity as well.
A few years ago, my then employers held a conference there, and at the end of the day, we were offered a tour of the place.
I opted to go on it (a part of me likes that sort of thing) :yup: and I was astonished how narrow some of the passages in what was the old main stand (TV cameras location) were.
U*d will try and squeeze some more seating capacity from somewhere, but it's hard to see where that will happen, never mind the expense.
 
fifthcolumnblue - 26/10/2013 19:45

citizhun - 26/10/2013 12:53

PhillyBlueMoon - 25/10/2013 20:54

Well, can they still buy big like they used to, citizhun? They lost out on Pogba and Morrisson, two of their own Academy graduates, who no longer wanted to stay with the club. Teams in Italy are resurgent, France is now becoming a destination, Germany looks more and more attractive, and Spain has the two most "glorious" football teams on the planet. The rags have an aging stadium and a manager who doesn't know what he's doing. They could be in serious trouble.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how any of the points you've made affect their ability to spend at this point. :thinking: Arguably if they have a very bad season this year potential targets might look at Moyes as a liability and may decide to go elsewhere, but it won't be because the money isn't there. They have the biggest (in good nick) stadium in the league. The other points affect us every bit as much don't they?
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I'd call it serviceable rather than in good nick.
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Ok, but my point was that they don't need to expand or make major repairs to the stadium, so this won't impact on their ability to spend, which is I believe what Philly was suggesting?
 
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