Benefit deaths

Juan Mourep

Juan Mourep

Vital 1st Team Regular
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/benefit-cuts-deaths-time-iain-6177882

To the Government they are just statistics – 49 deaths on a spreadsheet.

But behind the figures are vulnerable people scared and confused by changes to their benefits. Some are feared to have taken their own lives as a result.

The true toll of those who may have died due to benefits worries is unknown, as the Government stubbornly refuses to reveal figures.

The Information Commis­sioner’s Office has upheld the Government decision, much to the dismay of campaigners.

More than 200,000 people have so far signed a petition demanding the Department for Work and Pensions, run by Secretary of State Iain Duncan Smith, discloses the details.

The petition to have full details of the cases revealed was launched by crusader Maggie Zolobajluk, from South-West London, on change.org.

She said: “For years there have been reports of people committing suicide or dying from ill-health soon after their benefits are stopped.

“As a partner of someone with a disability, I know from personal experience how stressful the system can be and the impact it can have on families.

“I believe that the public needs to know the full impact of benefit changes.”


Yet despite more than 240,000 signing a petition calling on ministers to disclose the death toll, they have failed to do so.

When the Information Commissioner ruled they should publish the data, at first ministers tried to deny it was being collected.

Days later, David Cameron said: “This data will be published.”

But now his Government is going to court to try to stop it being made public.

Iain Duncan Smith argues disclosure is “contrary to public interest”.



I'm a member of the public, I'm interested in how many members of the public have died due to Gov cuts and incompetence.

Yet more lies and cover ups from D Cameron and co.


 
The government and the media feed the public a pack of B.S which the media came out last year and admitted they sensationalize 'dodgy' claims (for sales ofcourse) so the average Jo Bloggs thinks up to half of people on any form of welfare are a scam.

That actual figure of scam claims is less than 1%. Agree with it or not, the fact the pensions come under welfare umbrella means at least half of the welfare bill per year is pensions which alot don't realise is all part of government propaganda.

I know of people who have died, sanctioned due to the draconian systems and those who do the medicals who aren't fit/trained to do them.

How the freak is a physiotherapist supposed to write a report on mental health issues for example? The mental health side is the worst, as the people claiming sick/dla with it aren't well enough to make the claim and unless they have support to do it they will be sanctioned as they can't cope.

Seen it with my 2nd son who is bipolar who openly admits he would be stuffed without us to help him. The majority don't have that support

This is a really good article on welfare, how the government break it down and how it should be broken down. The government sent out a manipulated report on welfare spending 6 months before the election. Article is from Nov 2014

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29898083
 
Why would you believe any of the BS they spin when the whole benefit reforms have been drawn up by a nasty piece of work and pathological liar with a long-track-record of dishonesty :

Ian Duncan Smith :96:



Newsnight reveals inaccuracies in Iain Duncan Smith's CV

Aspects of Iain Duncan Smith's CV, relating to his education, are inaccurate and misleading, an investigation by BBC Newsnight reveals.

The investigation into the Conservative Party leader's education and early career - broadcast at 10.30pm on BBC TWO last night (Wednesday 18 December 2002) - was presented by Michael Crick, author of the best-selling biography of Jeffrey Archer.

If any of the following material is used BBC Newsnight must be credited.

The University of Perugia

Iain Duncan Smith's biography on the Conservative Party website, his entry in Who's Who, and various other places, state that he went to the Universita di Perugia in Italy.

This is not true: his office now admit that he went to the Universita per Stranieri, which is also in Perugia.

The Universita per Stranieri - or University for Foreigners - was founded in 1921 and is a totally separate institution to the medieval Universita di Perugia, founded by the Pope in 1308.

Although the Universita per Stranieri is a respected language school, it did not grant degrees when he studied there in 1973, although some students attained diplomas.

Mr Duncan Smith's office has now admitted to Newsnight that he didn't get any qualifications in Perugia or even finish his exams.

Dunchurch College of Management

The first line of Iain Duncan Smith's biography, on the Conservative Party website, claims he was "educated at Dunchurch College of Management".

In fact, Dunchurch was the former staff college for GEC Marconi, for whom he worked in the 1980s.

Mr Duncan Smith's office has now confirmed to Newsnight that he did not get any qualifications there either, but that he completed six separate courses lasting a few days each, adding up to about a month in total.

Newsnight has now spoken to 19 former tutors at Dunchurch. Most agree it is over-emphasising his experience at Dunchurch to describe it in the way he does.

John Garside, a former Dunchurch tutor, says: "I'm puzzled, flattered, but puzzled. What we did was offer short courses... it was not a continuous form of education by any means."

Newsnight has shown these details to some of Iain Duncan Smith's constituents in Chingford.

Several people assumed he must have been at both the University of Perugia and Dunchurch for several years, and obtained qualifications in either or both places.

Article from the BBC.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2002/12_december/19/newsnight_ids_cv.shtml
 
What?

Are you three suggesting that we aren't in fact all in this together?

:10:

I upset a few on the Cameron page on facebook last week! Got 160 odd likes as well though! Lol

Cameron was apparently proud to announce another review to get people with disabilities back to work. I simple asked if he would be proud enough to review his mates at the top not paying taxes and retorted 'one nation my backside'

the first intelligent reply was booooring. ... nothing like a debate with a daily mail spoon fed never thought for themselves sheep type eh!?
 
There is an awful lot of paranoia being displayed on here.

 
It depends doesnt it..

Are these people claiming benefits because they genuinly cannot work. Or are they not working because the benefit life suits them better.

There are genuine cases who ny heart bleeds for... eg ill health, injured etc. But for those that whine and whimper over a days work because they het paid 24k a year to sit on their backsides.... got no sympathy at all.
 
2 things here juan.

1. Alot of sentences contain the words, ' cleared fit to work'. That suggests something?

2. In most debate sessions you scream.and shout at everyone for believing the media about america. The media are brain washing us!!!! Etc etc. Now an article suits something you like to back then its absolutely fine.to believe what THE MIRROR says. And these quotes from 'normal people' are gospel.

Genius.
 
I think people would be shocked at the stories of those who are cleared to work. Honestly, this isn't paranoia, or playacting, some of the cases are truly horrendous. There is another on here with a story about one of their relatives, not one for me to share but it's diabolical, dangerous and heartless.

I'm all for lazy arses to be made to work or contribute to get benefits, but they always seem to go for the disabled and if you look at the thread kefkat put up not long back, the saving is 3% which would be less than what it has cost both economically to the country and personally to many of the people involved.

I think some only read the headlines and don't delve deeper and a lot (thank goodness) haven't suffered chronic health issues and don't take the time to understand.

It's a mess and some have killed themselves over it, no doubt at all.

Seems a less and less caring society we have though, too much 'I'm alright Jack' for my liking.

And my experience of being on benefits after the brain op when there was literally no choice was very very far from £24k...
 
Yes silly to talk about £24K - this applies only in unusual cases with large families and never applies to single people as are many of the people in this media story

Really need to switch on brain and tear up the Daily Mail before making comments like that.
 
So you would fall into the health bracket then juan which i very clearly stated my heart goes out to you.

As i said... very clearly... its the people that WONT work rather than CANT that should be pulled.and made.to.bloody contribute to the country.

Hanborough... i dont read papers myself. But i deal with many families at work that WONT work here, have business's abroad... and get a very healthy benefits package.

If a parent has a naughty child for example and they push and push and push and push for autism/adhd etc i think you will find £££££££££££££££.

And believe me... its alot rarer now but 10 years ago ALOT of 'naughty' children were wrongly diagnosed. ££££££££££££ down the loo.
 
The concept seems fair enough apart from the one epic fail, the company doing the assessing get more money for every one the assess as fit for work.

With factor in the equation there will be a "top down" pressure on the people doing the assessin to lean towards the "Cleared for work" than not.
 
Ps.... last question juan.

So yes before people jump down my throat... my sympathies with ANYONE who cannot work due to poor health.

The people scamming the system have an awful lot to make up for and that makes me sick.... as none of us know what is around the corner. So please understand that.

However. On a conspiracy note... why are the mirrors opinions and facts ok to go by for this? But we cannot listen to ANY media for anything pro america or anti muslim? I find that bizzare.

Yes, you are speaking from your experiences... but some posters speak from their experiences on the subjects above... yet you refuse to aknowledge them?

Surely you must take other peoples experiences and views on board if you want the same thing for you?
 
Juan Mourep - 3/8/2015 03:26

colavfc - 2/8/2015 23:50

But for those that whine and whimper over a days work because they het paid 24k a year to sit on their backsides.... got no sympathy at all.
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I get £6,480 a year, that's it, no other benefits, no help with my housing costs, bugger all, that is my total income, it all goes to my carer who looks after me, anything left after food and bills, she takes off the huge debt I had when she carried me, I'd love this 24K a year you speak of, more than that I'd like two new hips and two new knees so I could get back to bloody work, so I could just go for a walk, so I could do things that most of you take for granted.

24K my arse.
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Juan have you not applied for what they now call PIP'S? (used to be DLA) From what you have said here you would be entitled to it as PIP's is to help you with the things you need help with, so you can have a life.

It would give you a better quality of life plus as your on the sick it would give you an extra underlying component of lone disablement which is £61-00 per week, once you have PIPS in place at a care rate. Though you do have to ring the ESA to tell them now as they dont automatically add it.

Even if you have been turned down for it in the past apply again. Keep applying as from all you have said your entitled to it.
 
col8 - 3/8/2015 19:18

The concept seems fair enough apart from the one epic fail, the company doing the assessing get more money for every one the assess as fit for work.

With factor in the equation there will be a "top down" pressure on the people doing the assessin to lean towards the "Cleared for work" than not.
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The appeals process with the amount of people appealing is costing this country average £66 million a year.

On average at mandatory reconsideration before appeal 23% of appeals are overturned. PIP's mandatory reconsiderations before appeal turnover is 13.9%.

On average about 75% of cases are overturned when they go to full tribunal appeal.

This is the stuff the average person doesn't know about and the government feed of this and the media who sensationalizing cases.

Ofcourse there will be a few fiddling the system. The government are fully aware it is something like 0.05%. Yes under 1% however they dont want the jo public to know that has it doesn't fit their agenda
 
Thanks Kef, I did not realise the "turnover" was so bad on appeal.

Again another scheme which looks good on paper but aint worth the paper its printed on.
 
col8 - 3/8/2015 22:10

Thanks Kef, I did not realise the "turnover" was so bad on appeal.

Again another scheme which looks good on paper but aint worth the paper its printed on.
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Yes because the main of people are on ESA/PIP'S for a reason. Contrary to popular belief that people could write what they wanted on forms and just get accepted, that never was the case.

The same applies now. If you can send in enough evidence of proof of disabilities you are unlikely to be called for a medical. If you can get a Dr's letter back up, have hospital letters stating illness/ess diagnosed then they don't send for you and that still applies.

They will mess with the stats and say oh people are coming off ESA/etc. cos they don't want to be caught out and use that in their manipulated figures, however the case is those coming off are those who only need help in the short term.

For example my friend fella has just broken his leg, so he is going to be on the sick for 6 months. Once that has healed he will go back to work. 1 off the ESA, yes. However their is also a big proportion who use ESA for short periods, to get through a period of which they can recover. That is what the safety net is for. These are the sort of things they don't tell you
 
colavfc - 3/8/2015 19:22

Ps.... last question juan.

my sympathies with ANYONE who cannot work due to poor health.

The people scamming the system have an awful lot to make up for and that makes me sick.... as none of us know what is around the corner. So please understand that.
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As Fear and kef before him have pointed out, those scamming the benefits system are a tiny minority, but you instantly thought that the term "passed fit for work" means there are loads scamming the sytem, when the reality is that it actually means ATOS were paid to kick people off benefits, even those of us who were lucky enough to get there in the end have lost thousands in delayed and "lost" claims, that is the reality.


However. On a conspiracy note... why are the mirrors opinions and facts ok to go by for this? But we cannot listen to ANY media for anything pro america or anti muslim? I find that bizzare.
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I used the mirror piece to highlight what I already knew through personal experience to be a fact.

I'm not a fan of the media, be it red tops, broads or the BBC and Co, the media has proven itself time and time again to lie, our media doesn't seem as biased as some I have seen from America, but it is still biased non the less, it still only tells you what they want you to know, most people haven't got a clue what laws and statutes are passed that influence their daily lives, I've lost count of the amount of backhanded British Gov stuff I have posted where people have said that they hadn't heard a thing about it, that is not a coincidence.

Americas actions around the world are well documented, they are the school bully, just as we once were, but much more powerful, again, all the info is out there.

"But we cannot listen to ANY media for anything pro america or anti muslim? I find that bizzare"

Who said you can't? I have advised people to not take anything they read or see in the media as gospel, isn't that just common sense? I openly encourage people to do their own research, it is only through such activity that people start to put the jigsaw together.

As for the anti Muslim drive, I refuse to get on that bandwagon, mainly because I have known many Muslims throughout my life, not just in passing, but in their houses, sharing their food, they are no different to you or I, they still have dreams, they still love, they still care for their children, they still care for their elders, I will not judge a people on the actions of some extremists, I don't hate all Catholics because the church has a peadophile problem, target the extremists, target the peadophiles, target the problems.

I find it bizarre that people can spread a net of hate over so many innocent people.

I find it bizarre that people find it acceptable to kill women and children by the thousand, just to kill a few hundred extremists, it's not collateral damage, it's mothers, it's sons, daughters, babies, brothers, sisters, all real people trying to live their lives in peace, but it's okay to kill them as long as it's us or the good ol U S of A doing it?

I give more value to life, I make no excuses for that.


Yes, you are speaking from your experiences... but some posters speak from their experiences on the subjects above... yet you refuse to aknowledge them?

Surely you must take other peoples experiences and views on board if you want the same thing for you?
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Do they? Most of what I have heard is just racist bile, please feel free to point out these other posters personal experiences and my dismissal of their opinions, just remember that personal experiences of "those nasty Muslims" is a personal experience of an extremist, not a true Muslim.

You may tell from the time of some of my posts that I am quite regularly awake into the small hours due to my discomfort, I do a lot of research and not just in my field of work, I don't just gob off half cocked, I do my research, it's the scientist in me, my opinions are coloured by my research, I do my best to make sure that any info I give is backed up by the available data.

"Surely you must take other peoples experiences and views on board if you want the same thing for you?"

I want nothing! I put information out there, if people take that and dig a bit deeper for themselves that's great, if they don't have any interest in the truth and/or are not willing to look for it, that is also their choice, if they just ridicule me because they don't/can't/won't accept something they can't handle, that is their choice, I'm not forcing anyone to do anything, I'm not telling anyone that they can't do anything, I do care little for the opinion of racists and war mongers, I will freely admit that.



 
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