BARNSLEY WILL GO DOWN | Page 4 | Vital Football

BARNSLEY WILL GO DOWN

ZAKKY

Vital 1st Team Regular
#61
Spot on. Moonay, myself and others have made a number of perfectly reasonable and respectful counter points yet are so often met with basic accusations of being stupid or in denial. Just needless.
Without wanting to endorse and defend some of "Pies" comments I think he has become very frustrated with recent developments after what must have been a marathon task researching all that information and knowing this situation could have been avoided if EFL had studied carefully what he told them. I also understand his comments re Moonay who does have this habit of continually picking at a sore, no offence intended.
 

king_dezeeuw06

Vital Football Hero
#63
Without wanting to endorse and defend some of "Pies" comments I think he has become very frustrated with recent developments after what must have been a marathon task researching all that information and knowing this situation could have been avoided if EFL had studied carefully what he told them. I also understand his comments re Moonay who does have this habit of continually picking at a sore, no offence intended.
We are all frustrated but no reason to direct it at folks who aren't responsible. It costs nothing to be civil to folks who aren't even being rude or attacking you in discussion.
 

Danny_de_Zeeuw16

Vital Squad Member
#64
Shite to that. Hes being rude. Full stop. No need to go on about the cognitive ability of others and try to put them down for raising counter arguments. Thats the nature of the beast here if your not mature enough piss off and go find your big boy pants. I disagree with moonay plenty but why be an arsehole? Because youve done research? Yeah right.

Everything is relative in life including his own intelligence so instead of putting others down realise there will be a time that you yourself are inferior in cognitive terms to many on this earth and that many will run rings around you too.

Belt up
 

moonay

Vital Champions League
#67
Oh well that's your problem if you dont like it but its true you never know when to stop and to prove it you will come back and chip back at this
And there's me thinking you'd understand the little winky !

As for me chipping back, well why shouldn't I? You had the pop ..........I merely returned serve. That's the way stuff works.

Why would you think you have the right to continually have a pop but not expect to get anything in return?

Anyway, don't you think my responses to Pies were reasonable?......... especially with regard to the loan?
 

ZAKKY

Vital 1st Team Regular
#68
And there's me thinking you'd understand the little winky !

As for me chipping back, well why shouldn't I? You had the pop ..........I merely returned serve. That's the way stuff works.

Why would you think you have the right to continually have a pop but not expect to get anything in return?

Anyway, don't you think my responses to Pies were reasonable?......... especially with regard to the loan?
Yes I do, but there is some truth in what he says you are a bit like an angry wasp. I definitely don't condone nasty remarks but can understand his clear frustration.
It comes with age its why all the testosterone filled younger chaps like to fight while we older chaps just love to love
 

moonay

Vital Champions League
#69
Yes I do, but there is some truth in what he says you are a bit like an angry wasp. I definitely don't condone nasty remarks but can understand his clear frustration.
It comes with age its why all the testosterone filled younger chaps like to fight while we older chaps just love to love
:LOL:

Angry wasp?! Hardly Zakky. Fecking annoying midge, maybe. ;)

Also, though I've no idea where Pies fits, I'm fairly certain that I'm no longer categorised as a "younger chap" !

Any road.......off to the cricket ................ mebbe watch your mate get a cheap un, and then buy a couple of wickets for plenty with his "dobblers".
;)
 

pies'r'us

Vital Youth Team
#74
You reasoning process seems confused;

I didn't provide 'proof' that we would win the 'appeal'. It would be impossible. How has your mind processed this? The appeal was an event in the future not dissimilar to a football match. Things happen which I can't foresee.

However, I have got a few 'things' right.

In 2019, I recall 'King' and others enthusing about chinese billionaires... even seeing Henry Cheng in the stadium. I argued IEC was a small loss making business and that it wouldn't 'work'. I was right.

I said it was a partial leveraged buy-out which would be financially detrimental, I was right.

I said we'd be better with Jim Royal than Darren. I was right (Dr Choi registered his dissatisfaction with the way things were going off-field).

When P Cook said he wasn't going to use these sale proceeds from Griggs and Burn, I said IEC are going to syphon it off us. I was right

I told EFL that to let the sale happen would be a disaster and said 'I've seen this film before, It's got bad ending. I was right

As regards to the appeal. In fact my gut feeling was that we would lose. Fear and emotion was getting the better of me so I made an objective assessment and provided my assertion with relevant details. You could have reviewed it and made a comment if you disagreed but you didn't.

I still stand by the basis of my assertion but in retrospect I made an error; my view was based upon how I would have 'done it'. Also, I received an email from admins a few days before which worried me. Then after the hearing I saw one of the admin men on BBC. I immediately thought; 'no wonder we lost'. In fact, I recorded it and played it a few times to make sure I wasn't mistaken. Presence and 'delivery' in court is everything which I forgot to consider.

I would dearly like to have seen the appeal or even the argument papers. I believed the Blackpool event was a precedent and we weren't dissimilar but I don't know if they went that route. The only thing I know for definite was the QC informed me he wasn't going the 'Covid' route.

Most court hearings or judicial reviews in this country provide a concise judgement but because of the secretive nature of footballs governing body, we will never know. But we will see a big bill.

As regards your comment regarding criticising others etc. There are only a few 'others'. These are people who are too bone idle to go and check THE FACTS, as I have done, and then counter and argue with me using supposition or anecdotal information. I have no patience in these circumstances, it annoys me and I am a very combatant. On May 11, I requested certain forum members to check the sale/loan agreement published by IEC because I couldn't believe how toxic it was. Nobody bothered but yet they feel qualified to provide opinion.

During my business life, I've experienced numerous company sales/purchase events therefore most of it is reasonable easy to understand. However, if people need help to understand, I will gladly provide whatever info I can for them to understand. Some I've helped via PM

As some on here are aware, I wrote a 6 page synopsis of the pre and IEC tenure – warts and all. Many journos have plagiarized it but a few asked for permission. It's been published worldwide in various forms. So whereby you cite that I don't know as much as I think I do. One things for sure, I know a lot more than you do and those journos were grateful as per..

Luke Brown (Athletic UK) said: “ .. I found it fascinating and believe you can help with the investigation we are putting together. You certainly deserve credit for recognising these issues so early. In the past 24 hours we have spoken to numerous people at the club, connected to the club and connected to the administration. It would be very useful for our reporting if we can see evidence that you flagged these issues to the EFL, as you say. A screenshot of the email or forwarded copy would be enough”.

Unfortunately, this crux of this matter has arisen via erroneous comments from Moonay and others about the 'loan agreement'. Yet again he starts from a baseless 'they said, he said'. I responded with actual facts, as per the sale documents and at great length. But he doesn't want to know he just wants to counter. I've advised him previously to go and read the relevant documents but I see no evidence that he ever has. I noted he crashed into someone else's thread about appeal barristers. Absolutely embarrassing and it's not the first time. Then he prattles on about money laundering. It's an absolute nonsense to try and deal with matters in a logical manner.
 

moonay

Vital Champions League
#75
Pies,
Being seen to be "right" seems to be very important to you. That's understandable, but it's also understandable if you get things wrong sometimes. We all do.

Your analysis was excellent. I'm sure I've said so on numerous occasions. I fully shared your expectation that we would emerge from the appeal still in the Championship (though your assertion now that your "gut feeling was that we would lose" seems a little disingenuous to be frank). . I'm also looking to kick anything that moves, whilst picturing Au Yeung (and Choi) in my head.

Yet again, you mention that you asked members of the forum to "check the sale/loan agreement". So, I will say, yet again, that most of us were never going to do that, as we had neither the time, or the knowledge in that area to do so. That however doesn't stop us from asking questions of those who did manage to do it .... ie like yourself. We weren't "challenging" you. We were asking for clarification. (Note, I worked for an International Corporation, so I didn't have first hand experience of "company sales/purchase events" and I therefore don't share your assessment that "therefore most of it is reasonable easy to understand". I'm sure I wasn't the only one.

We all feel free to offer an opinion on matters - from what we read of your analysis, from what we read of the Libero and Harry Robinson investigations, and from what we've picked up from the Administrator briefings.

I'd love to know what "erroneous comments" you attribute to me. I understand - and have never doubted for a second - what you say is in the sale documents. All I've said is that the Administrators said that the loan to IEC has been paid, and there is nothing sitting on the books of any WAFC company to show we have a liability there. (Note - this was where I threw in the line in around money laundering, not really seriously, but I'm at as much of a loss as anyone else as to the intentions and actions of Choi and Au Yeung, and thinking outside the box, however ludicrously, seemed a fair punt).

I've responded that there's no need to read the documents ........... not when there's no liability on our books. I don't doubt it was written down .......... but now, it's vanished.......apparently. I've always sais that if I've misunderstood what the Administrators have said re the loan, then I'm happy to be corrected. If you believe that WAFC (or at least, the holding company) are still liable for the loan, then I'm more than happy for you to tell me (probably sarcastically and condescendingly) how that is, given the statement from the Administrators.

As for "crashed into someone else's thread" ................. I'm not sure you fully understand the way forums work ........ well, not as much as you understand the sale documents & loan agreement at least. I presume you mean the discussion in "12 point appeal" with Zakky. If you tell me what I should be embarrassed about, I'll be happy to respond ........ though I doubt I'll be embarrassed.

You seem to be losing it a little toward the end Pies,.......getting personal again. I'm not sure why.
 

king_dezeeuw06

Vital Football Hero
#77
Pies - If people try to understand the difficult to read documents you have a go at them for not interpreting them the same way as you. If they don't read them thinking they are too difficult to understand you call them bone idle. I read the original take over docs in full and just got rudly criticised by you 18 months ago for my interpretation so couldn't be bothered reading the latest one cover to cover as according to you i should 'just stick to football' because these matters are apparently beyond my comprehension. So you are trying to have it both ways. Not everyone has your years of being involved in the buying as selling businesses that apparently makes reading these docs so easy to most of us mere mortals it's quite tricky.

You are quick to critasise others for being wrong but seem to take exception when your own wrong prediction about the appeal is pointed out in response. Retrospectively admitting you had a gut feeling that was the opposite of your actual prediction sounds like a back track and attempt to say 'actually I was right really'.

We all get stuff wrong and we all have differing opinions, some folks say stuff we may know for a fact is incorrect in certain circumstances but we can always keep it civil and respectful.

You have been needlessly rude and condescending to fellow posters on numerous occasions and are trying to justify it as 'I have no patients and combative under the circumstances' is a poor excuse to not be civil and respectful. You were like this on all club ownership matters long before admin we are all fed up but no reason to needlessly have a go at folks like you did in your post both passively and directly in the post above.
 
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