BARNSLEY WILL GO DOWN | Page 2 | Vital Football

BARNSLEY WILL GO DOWN

#21
Assuming that our course of defence is force majeure this case would potentially be setting a new precedent, and I would hedge a bet that the independent commission would take the same stance as the EFL - that setting a precedent around Wigan Athletic is not worth their fuss...

Either way, I am just filling the hours before 4pm with my own speculation. Not long till we find out either way
 

moonay

Vital Champions League
#22
Assuming that our course of defence is force majeure this case would potentially be setting a new precedent,....
Nah, it wouldn't Ed. The only avenue of appeal is Force Majeure. How we then presented this (as brought on by Covid, or the actions of an owner seemingly out to simply dispose of us, or even as fraudulent activity) was within the hands of the QC ............. but regardless, it had to be Force Majeure based................ as have all previous appeals.
 
#23
If there is any justice here wigan have to get this verdict overturned otherwise where does football go with corrupt owners being allowed to ruin clubs
 

Hampton

Vital 1st Team Regular
#24
If there is any justice here wigan have to get this verdict overturned otherwise where does football go with corrupt owners being allowed to ruin clubs
There is no justice or support seemingly for clubs that are not either founder members, premier league (if your face fits !) or have a massive fan base.
The owners club supported by the FA and EFL are happy to ride the relatively small ripples caused by incidents such as our own to keep the gravy train rolling
 
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LaticYork

Guest
#25
Instead of us. Here's the reality:

The appeal hearing is like a civil court whereby the burden of proof is on the claimant (WA), who must prove that on the balance of probabilities, our case is true. This means that the hearing must be satisfied that on the evidence, the occurrence of an 'event' was more likely than not. Ie. unlike a criminal court 'beyond reasonable doubt'

Important to note: we had 2 barristers appearing for us, each being specialist in their area of law.

As per Zakys post yesterday; Kira King is a renowned specialist in international - civil fraud - insolvency - asset tracing laws.

Also, there was an independent auditor appointed to 'research' the 'events' pre sale agreement and provide evidence to the hearing.

So that tells you which road we're going down... On par with my previous 'conclusion' that IEC docs show the sale was a sham and that Au Yeung was a stooge and whatever happened between them 'at the end' - the club are innocent victims and the management had no control. This a fact!

If this is accepted then a 'Force Majeure event' has occurred. I believe on the burden of proof (evidence) criteria, we cannot fail and will have the points deduction revoked.

For Clarity: The EFL Rules section 3 - 'Sporting Sanctions' state:

12.3.11 For the purposes of this Regulation 12.3, a ‘Force Majeure’ event shall be an event that, having regard to all of the circumstances, was caused by and resulted directly from circumstances, other than normal business risks, over which the Club and/or Group Undertaking (as the case may be) could not reasonably be expected to have control and its Officials had used all due diligence to avoid the happening of that event.

My conclusion is also based upon all my research over 18 months which I have spent circa 70 hours and also confidential communications with QC and administrator etc prior to the hearing.

I've bet the ranch on Barnsley going down.

Last point. I've tried to be objective with my opinion. No offence but I realy don't want to enter into arguments with folks who haven't checked the available data and info or ask me to prove owt or go off at a tangent. Neither will I get involved in doting my 'i's' nor semantics or spelling mistakes or miy arwful gramar. This is a fans forum not the Oxford nob heads debating society.. Please try not to bugger up this thread... U know who u r.
posts like this didn’t help during it all.

I found the “I know more than you” and “I spoke to to the QC” posts on here and twitter really hard to stomach. Particularly when the prove to be untrue.

The QC and team had more to worry about the placating some Wigan fans who’ve pulled together a lever arch of crayon drawings as to why the “bad man done it” should be our defence.

really annoyed tonight. And embarrassed to see how some of our fans are acting on twitter - making out like its all other clubs fault.
 

Danny_de_Zeeuw16

Vital Squad Member
#26
posts like this didn’t help during it all.

I found the “I know more than you” and “I spoke to to the QC” posts on here and twitter really hard to stomach. Particularly when the prove to be untrue.

The QC and team had more to worry about the placating some Wigan fans who’ve pulled together a lever arch of crayon drawings as to why the “bad man done it” should be our defence.

really annoyed tonight. And embarrassed to see how some of our fans are acting on twitter - making out like its all other clubs fault.
Get a grip. People blame the efl and the criminals not barnsley. However Barnsley fans are goading and latics fans responding to it. What are you on about
 
#27
Similar to the Bolton situation, people make assumptions, 2+2 and get 5.
People claim to be ITK for whatever reason and the fact of the matter is, none of you will ever get close to the details of this administration unless you are formally bidding for Wigan.

My advice - Do yourselves all a favour and take everything with a large pinch of salt from now on. Nothing is done until it's done.
The hardest part is to try to avoid constantly checking for news because admin will take time and you will drive yourselves mad and only end up squabbling on forums, making no real difference at all. Pray that you can cobble together some form of team to get you through the next season.

I saw a lot of posts on here filled with optimism a couple of weeks ago and I don't blame you for it but this is not a situation to be optimistic in. The best you can hope for is to survive at the present moment. It will feel unfair, you can shout and scream online about how the EFL/Choi/Whoever are corrupt but no one really cares because it's not their club.

You may not like it but that is the reality. Sorry if this post sounds vindictive/doom mongering or anything like that but you need to all wake up and smell the bacon now, you're fucked and there's not much you can do to help. If there isn't an owner or consortium lined up in the next couple of weeks I dread to think.

I hope you get through this but it won't be pretty.
 
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LaticYork

Guest
#28
Get a grip. People blame the efl and the criminals not barnsley. However Barnsley fans are goading and latics fans responding to it. What are you on about
No, some fans decided it was Barnsley’s fault because their owner made one statement, and the EFL called them to submit a statement. Read back over the posts on here. So childish and embarrassing. Just like some Barnsley children have responded on twitter. Pathetic.
 

Danny_de_Zeeuw16

Vital Squad Member
#29
Similar to the Bolton situation, people make assumptions, 2+2 and get 5.
People claim to be ITK for whatever reason and the fact of the matter is, none of you will ever get close to the details of this administration unless you are formally bidding for Wigan.

My advice - Do yourselves all a favour and take everything with a large pinch of salt from now on. Nothing is done until it's done.
The hardest part is to try to avoid constantly checking for news because admin will take time and you will drive yourselves mad and only end up squabbling on forums, making no real difference at all. Pray that you can cobble together some form of team to get you through the next season.

I saw a lot of posts on here filled with optimism a couple of weeks ago and I don't blame you for it but this is not a situation to be optimistic in. The best you can hope for is to survive at the present moment. It will feel unfair, you can shout and scream online about how the EFL/Choi/Whoever are corrupt but no one really cares because it's not their club.

You may not like it but that is the reality. Sorry if this post sounds vindictive/doom mongering or anything like that but you need to all wake up and smell the bacon now, you're fucked and there's not much you can do to help. If there isn't an owner or consortium lined up in the next couple of weeks I dread to think.

I hope you get through this but it won't be pretty.
I agree and we were optimistic to be bought. Now im much less so due to relegation. Who the hells gonna wanna buy a club now? Theres literally no income
 

Danny_de_Zeeuw16

Vital Squad Member
#30
No, some fans decided it was Barnsley’s fault because their owner made one statement, and the EFL called them to submit a statement. Read back over the posts on here. So childish and embarrassing. Just like some Barnsley children have responded on twitter. Pathetic.
For what its worth barnsley should have been no where near that hearing. We both know it. I dont blame Barnsley but they a are deluded saying that they DESERVE to stay up over us. Do they shite, over sheffield who legitimately cheated, maybe. But it was no great escape.
 

pies'r'us

Vital Youth Team
#31
posts like this didn’t help during it all.

I found the “I know more than you” and “I spoke to to the QC” posts on here and twitter really hard to stomach. Particularly when the prove to be untrue.

The QC and team had more to worry about the placating some Wigan fans who’ve pulled together a lever arch of crayon drawings as to why the “bad man done it” should be our defence.

really annoyed tonight. And embarrassed to see how some of our fans are acting on twitter - making out like its all other clubs fault.
Your welcome to your opinion about my post.

But first; what proof do you have that I didn't communicate with QC or administrators. Show me.

I'm calling you out now; SHOW THE FORUM

No one 'placated' me. I wasn't angry. It's obvious to me your cognitive skills are a teeny weeny bit lacking plus you need a dictionary.

The job of a QC is to act as advocates in legal or civil hearings, which means they stand in court or hearings to plead the case on behalf of their clients. But obviously, they need the information to formulate their argument and make their pleadings.

Where do you think they get the information from? Telepathy, Ouija board... no, he gets it from instructing lawyer... where does they get information from? Etc. etc.

It's really annoying when after 'the event' people like you crawl out from under cover and start criticising fans who tried to help. I'm proud of whatever I did to provide help to save our club.

Here's just one email I received from a journo;

"Hello xxxx,
I hope you don't mind me getting in touch. I'm the news editor at xxxxxxx UK and have been made aware of an email you sent to various media organisations several weeks ago, regarding the state of Wigan's finances and the club's ownership.


Am I correct in believing you also wrote to the EFL outlining these concerns? If so, would you be interested in speaking to me about this and perhaps forwarding any correspondence? We are currently working on a large story involving the club's administration and finances and it would be fascinating to speak to you.

Please email back if you would like to talk and we can arrange a phone call."

Naturally, I responded, owt to help. He used loads of 'my stuff' as with others.

Jim White quoted verbatum first para of analysis i wrote.

I don't recall any supportive or helpful comments nor in fact hearing or seeing you do anything.

What a shame; your embarrassed about a few words on twitter. Oh for God's sake, what a shock for you. It's a tough world out here... best crawl back.
 
Last edited:

Hampton

Vital 1st Team Regular
#32
The QC and team had more to worry about the placating some Wigan fans who’ve pulled together a lever arch of crayon drawings as to why the “bad man done it” should be our defence
Given the amount of time and effort put in by a number of individuals who had either the technical and legal knowledge to potentially make a difference using best endeavours to help our club this is a shocking comment.

What did you do to help ?
 

hindleymonwafc

Vital Football Hero
#36
Your welcome to your opinion about my post.

But first; what proof do you have that I didn't communicate with QC or administrators. Show me.

I'm calling you out now; SHOW THE FORUM

No one 'placated' me. I wasn't angry. It's obvious to me your cognitive skills are a teeny weeny bit lacking plus you need a dictionary.

The job of a QC is to act as advocates in legal or civil hearings, which means they stand in court or hearings to plead the case on behalf of their clients. But obviously, they need the information to formulate their argument and make their pleadings.

Where do you think they get the information from? Telepathy, Ouija board... no, he gets it from instructing lawyer... where does they get information from? Etc. etc.

It's really annoying when after 'the event' people like you crawl out from under cover and start criticising fans who tried to help. I'm proud of whatever I did to provide help to save our club.

Here's just one email I received from a journo;

"Hello xxxx,
I hope you don't mind me getting in touch. I'm the news editor at xxxxxxx UK and have been made aware of an email you sent to various media organisations several weeks ago, regarding the state of Wigan's finances and the club's ownership.


Am I correct in believing you also wrote to the EFL outlining these concerns? If so, would you be interested in speaking to me about this and perhaps forwarding any correspondence? We are currently working on a large story involving the club's administration and finances and it would be fascinating to speak to you.

Please email back if you would like to talk and we can arrange a phone call."

Naturally, I responded, owt to help. He used loads of 'my stuff' as with others.

Jim White quoted verbatum first para of analysis i wrote.

I don't recall any supportive or helpful comments nor in fact hearing or seeing you do anything.

What a shame; your embarrassed about a few words on twitter. Oh for God's sake, what a shock for you. It's a tough world out here... best crawl back.
Pies....i feel sure I speak for many but can i just place on record our gratitude for the info and clarifications you have provided. Don't feel the need to explain yourself to anyone as you played a blinder when most of us were non-plussed about the whole thing.

Continue to supply information to whatever body you want in order to expose the shitstorm that's gone on.

Good lad and respect.
 

Kendal Blue

Vital Youth Team
#37
No, some fans decided it was Barnsley’s fault because their owner made one statement, and the EFL called them to submit a statement. Read back over the posts on here. So childish and embarrassing. Just like some Barnsley children have responded on twitter. Pathetic.
I don't think anyone blames Barnsley for the appalling actions that let to the situation we are now in. They have no control of actions at our club and no knowledge of our financial state and obligations. I think this is also the reason why Latics fans were annoyed Barnsley were invited to our trial. There is also a way of conducting yourself with dignity and I would say, on the whole, we have done so, as have many rival clubs. Only looking at how such a scenario affects your club and avoiding the wider footballing picture, celebrating your gain at the catastrophic loss of another, accusing us of cheating and (falsley), claiming we owe £x amount for players is all antagonistic at a time that a club, it's fans and community are on their knees. Given the number and variety of horses in the stable, I find it strange that you have chosen to ride the 'Barnsley good, Wigan bad' one at this exact moment. Although maybe it's not too surprising given your likely motive
 

Hampton

Vital 1st Team Regular
#38
I don't think anyone blames Barnsley for the appalling actions that let to the situation we are now in. They have no control of actions at our club and no knowledge of our financial state and obligations. I think this is also the reason why Latics fans were annoyed Barnsley were invited to our trial. There is also a way of conducting yourself with dignity and I would say, on the whole, we have done so, as have many rival clubs. Only looking at how such a scenario affects your club and avoiding the wider footballing picture, celebrating your gain at the catastrophic loss of another, accusing us of cheating and (falsley), claiming we owe £x amount for players is all antagonistic at a time that a club, it's fans and community are on their knees. Given the number and variety of horses in the stable, I find it strange that you have chosen to ride the 'Barnsley good, Wigan bad' one at this exact moment. Although maybe it's not too surprising given your likely motive
Interesting that the Barnsley bunch didn't go after their larger neighbours with the same enthusiasm even though they had sinned far more than us ?
 

Coddenchips

Vital Reserves Team
#39
I have a Sheffield Wednesday supporting colleague, and I've never understood his feelings towards them. He absolutely detests them. I've never had an issue with them and always enjoyed my trips there, but I am beginning to understand his perspective a little more now.

They seem to forget that if our lads hadn't been on the lash for a whole week before the last game in 2016, they wouldn't have been in the play offs. So would not have gone on to win it and not made a bit of extra dosh by playing in the Championship the following season.
 

Danny_de_Zeeuw16

Vital Squad Member
#40
I don't think anyone blames Barnsley for the appalling actions that let to the situation we are now in. They have no control of actions at our club and no knowledge of our financial state and obligations. I think this is also the reason why Latics fans were annoyed Barnsley were invited to our trial. There is also a way of conducting yourself with dignity and I would say, on the whole, we have done so, as have many rival clubs. Only looking at how such a scenario affects your club and avoiding the wider footballing picture, celebrating your gain at the catastrophic loss of another, accusing us of cheating and (falsley), claiming we owe £x amount for players is all antagonistic at a time that a club, it's fans and community are on their knees. Given the number and variety of horses in the stable, I find it strange that you have chosen to ride the 'Barnsley good, Wigan bad' one at this exact moment. Although maybe it's not too surprising given your likely motive
Absolutely spot on