Bad news for Buddha & travellers in general | Page 6 | Vital Football

Bad news for Buddha & travellers in general

markinkent said:
Buddha genuine question from me.

Most travellers I've see parked up around medway over the years have Irish (Republic) number plates.

Are you referring to a different group ? Why should the UK pay for facilities for Irish citizens?

Do travellers have to pay a fee to stay there to cover running costs/utilities etc.

It's genuine question.
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Mark, the legislation will effect everybody and anybody who lives a nomadic lifestyle.

What do you mean, am I referrng to a different group? I'm not an Irish traveller. I'm English and am a New Traveller. You might find this helpful:

  • Some people travel to preserve their cultural heritage – for example, Romany Gypsies, Irish Travellers and Roma are recognised ethnic minorities that have suffered state persecution in this country since the 1500s. According to Bristol council, however, 95% of people of these ethnicities now live in houses or flats. Travellers’ rights and access to land have been steadily eroded over the years by new laws and definition changes.
  • Others travel because their work demands it. Travelling showpeople are a group mainly made up of fairground operators and circus performers. Some date their heritage back to the time of the strolling players (the 1500s), but most descend from those who founded the first steam-powered fairgrounds in the 1800s.
  • New Travellers, meanwhile, started living on the road in the 1960s for political and social reasons, with many now in their third generation. Boaters, as the name suggests, are communities who live on boats.
  • ‘Van-dwellers’ or ‘newer travellers’ are terms recently coined to try to define the newest additions to traveling life – anyone who travels and does not identify in any of the above categories.
  • Bristol council uses the acronym GRT (Gypsy, Roma and Traveller) as a catch-all term, while Vehicles for Change uses the term ‘vehicle-dwellers’ to describe the full spectrum of people currently living in vehicles.
  • Last year, the Bristol anti-hate crime support agency SARI adapted the ‘GRT’ definition to ‘GRT+’ to acknowledge the intersectional spectrum that makes up these communities, and has set up a forum, GR8T+ Bristol.
With regard to your other question (Do travellers have to pay a fee to stay there to cover running costs/utilities etc?), to what are you referring, transit sites? Or permanent sites? Either way the answer is, yes, we do.
 
Buddha said:
Mark, the legislation will effect everybody and anybody who lives a nomadic lifestyle.

What do you mean, am I referrng to a different group? I'm not an Irish traveller. I'm English and am a New Traveller. You might find this

With regard to your other question (Do travellers have to pay a fee to stay there to cover running costs/utilities etc?), to what are you referring, transit sites? Or permanent sites? Either way the answer is, yes, we do.
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That's what I meant. I have no issue with uk government being asked to provide sufficient sites for UK citizens who lead nomadic lifestyle.

It's just the only travellers I have ever seen in medway have Irish plates so not sure why the UK government is being criticised for not providing enough sites for people from another country.

Good to hear that people pay for their running costs. That's only fair.
 
Buddha said:
No they're not! Did you even read the article?
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You clearly didn't - the website is literally called genocide watch!!

"The Gypsy, Roma and Traveller community, a traditionally nomadic minority, has endured persecution in Europe since the Middle Ages. The Nazis killed 300,000 to 500,000 Roma in the Holocaust"

"Such measures could increase homelessness and trigger family separations and forced adoptions—outcomes that are recognized as genocidal. Given the itinerant lifestyle of Gypsies and Travellers, which was upheld as an "enshrined freedom not to stay in one place" by the Court of Appeal in 2020, the bill appears to be a direct attack on the community’s identity, amounting to cultural genocide"

The article is merging Roma Gypsies (victims of holocaust) and travellers, and are pretending they are the same
 
markinkent said:
That's what I meant. I have no issue with uk government being asked to provide sufficient sites for UK citizens who lead nomadic lifestyle.

It's just the only travellers I have ever seen in medway have Irish plates so not sure why the UK government is being criticised for not providing enough sites for people from another country.

Good to hear that people pay for their running costs. That's only fair.
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I personally know lots of New Travellers who have Kentish roots but most of them live on sites or on land that isn't in the county or even the country. There are New Travellers in Kent but not many. The few I know of who are in Kent are tucked away and are well hidden. There may well be others that I don't know of but I expect that they too are well hidden. I've not personally known of any unathorised New Traveller encampments in Kent since the '90s (not that that means there aren't any).

This is why, for most people in Kent, when they hear the term, 'traveller', they don't immediately think of us New Travellers but instead think of those travellers with a much longer history than ourseles (i.e. Romany Gypsies, Irish Travellers and Roma). The stories you see in KentOnline are invariably about travellers who are not New Travellers.

My parents are not New Travellers but I know many New Travellers who are second and third generation (i.e. their parents, and sometimes their grandparents, are also New Travellers - they were born on-the-road and have lived their entire lives as New Travellers). It is fair comment to say that I have chosen this lifestyle, but there are many in our community who were born into it (And some of these individuals choose to NOT to live on the road once they're old enough to make that decison.)

As I said before, the legislation will effect ALL travellers and whilst I'm concerned about the rights of all travellers, clearly my primary concern is for my own community. I have no idea how many of us there are in total, probably not that many, I'd guess it is about 10,000. A very small number, we are a tiny minority. But we have a way of life, we have a community, and it is under attack. You must understand why this is serious stuff for us, our very existence is being threatened.
 
Good luck to you Buddha. I have no issues with new age travellers and the way you live. Irish travellers who trash the places they stay are completely different
 
ThreeSixes said:
You clearly didn't - the website is literally called genocide watch!!

"The Gypsy, Roma and Traveller community, a traditionally nomadic minority, has endured persecution in Europe since the Middle Ages. The Nazis killed 300,000 to 500,000 Roma in the Holocaust"

"Such measures could increase homelessness and trigger family separations and forced adoptions—outcomes that are recognized as genocidal. Given the itinerant lifestyle of Gypsies and Travellers, which was upheld as an "enshrined freedom not to stay in one place" by the Court of Appeal in 2020, the bill appears to be a direct attack on the community’s identity, amounting to cultural genocide"

The article is merging Roma Gypsies (victims of holocaust) and travellers, and are pretending they are the same
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You are a prick.

The article clearly says:

Genocide Watch considers the UK is at Stage 3: Discrimination, Stage 4: Dehumanization, and Stage 6: Polarization of the Ten Stages of Genocide. The police bill threatens to elevate the UK to Stage 8: Persecution.

So actually it is saying that it considers the UK's position (with regard to travellers) fits in with three of the Ten Stages of Genocide, and that if the Bill is passed it will fit a fourth stage.

https://www.genocidewatch.com/tenstages
 
markinkent said:
Good luck to you Buddha. I have no issues with new age travellers and the way you live. Irish travellers who trash the places they stay are completely different
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Thanks Mark.

I know that SOME Irish Travelers can be very problematic, I have had some personal experience of this.

However, it seems unfair (and possibly racist) to suggest that ALL Irish Travellers are bad news.
 
Buddha said:
Thanks Mark.

I know that SOME Irish Travelers can be very problematic, I have had some personal experience of this.

However, it seems unfair (and possibly racist) to suggest that ALL Irish Trvellers are bad news.
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To be fair I qualified it with "who trash the places they stay".

It is possible that some don't
 
Who do we think the Irish Travellers dump on? Is there no end. It would be interesting, no actually very boring, if every report of theiving, tax dodging, drug dealing by a home owning, upstanding member of the community was highlighted as such. I observe that some of those in Medway, who love to diss travellers, bear a striking resemblance to that group and even ccarry their traditional surnames. Ho hum.
 
jogills said:
Who do we think the Irish Travellers dump on? Is there no end. It would be interesting, no actually very boring, if every report of theiving, tax dodging, drug dealing by a home owning, upstanding member of the community was highlighted as such. I observe that some of those in Medway, who love to diss travellers, bear a striking resemblance to that group and even ccarry their traditional surnames. Ho hum.
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In my personal experience, the only people who don’t have an issue with Irish travellers are those who have had minimal contact with them.
Ulcombe and Headcorn have very particular issues.
Ask any shopkeeper in Headcorn what they think.
 
shotshy said:
I’d highly recommend everyone to watch Seaspiracy on Netflix.
It highlights how the sea is being raped of it’s resources.
Quite a chilling watch.
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I haven't got Netflix, but I do Know from personal experience in the early 70s the that large Russian 'trawlers' were using air lifts (like a large vacuum cleaner) to collect all possible fish on the seabed, we were told this went for production of fishmeal. According to the diver who filmed the bottom it was clean everything he filmed the obvious track of the air lift.
 
The Roone said:
I haven't got Netflix, but I do Know from personal experience in the early 70s the that large Russian 'trawlers' were using air lifts (like a large vacuum cleaner) to collect all possible fish on the seabed, we were told this went for production of fishmeal. According to the diver who filmed the bottom it was clean everything he filmed the obvious track of the air lift.
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We now have huge factory ships, mainly subsidised by China and the EU, over fishing all over the world, particularly west and east Africa.
One net could encompass St Paul’s Cathedral.
They just sweep up everything and the level of bycatch is horrendous, including dolphins, seals and even large whales.
I have nothing at all against small boats from anywhere, but these giants need stopping.
Our government could dictate the size of any fishing vessels catching in U.K. waters should they choose to. That would be a start. Unfortunately, they don’t and won’t.
We have marine reserves that are still fished.
As a scuba diver, I personally think that protection of our seas are very important.
 
shotshy said:
We now have huge factory ships, mainly subsidised by China and the EU, over fishing all over the world, particularly west and east Africa.
One net could encompass St Paul’s Cathedral.
They just sweep up everything and the level of bycatch is horrendous, including dolphins, seals and even large whales.
I have nothing at all against small boats from anywhere, but these giants need stopping.
Our government could dictate the size of any fishing vessels catching in U.K. waters should they choose to. That would be a start. Unfortunately, they don’t and won’t.
We have marine reserves that are still fished.
As a scuba diver, I personally think that protection of our seas are very important.
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Agree with all of that shotshy but our fishing history is not an uninterrupted succession of plucky, individual fishermen harvesting locally and sustanably.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_fishing_in_Newfoundland

West SAfrican fishing grounds have been ravaged for years by all the richer nations. The environmental issue is overwhelmed by that of robbing countries of a major food source.
 
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