Bad news for Buddha & travellers in general | Page 9 | Vital Football

Bad news for Buddha & travellers in general

chris who said:
Kids will verbally attack anyone who is different. Sometimes some resort to violence. You don't need to be a different colour or even nationally. Very tall kids,Very short kids ,Those who struggle to do the basic schoolwork,Kids that are especially gifted ,Those who are not at school regularly,Kids that speak or act differently and so on.Out of a class of 30 you can probably guarantee that there will be at least one target.Travellers will almost certainly suffer more than most .But have no doubt there is real problems for at least 3.33% of children at school due to the fact that some young boys and girls make sure at least one person in their classroom life is a nightmare often for 11 years or more of their life.
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Again, that's not my personal experience of being at school with traveller children (them being the victims of abuse and intimidation).
 
ThreeSixes said:
Again, that's not my personal experience of being at school with traveller children (them being the victims of abuse and intimidation).
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As I said there are no systems for being sure which kid/s will be chosen. The fact that it appears in your case there were more than one of them meant they were not a easy target people like Tommy Robinson and his kind will simply find the easiest target .It is fair game.I am 100% certain he was a bully at school but unlike a percentage of them he never grew up he still acts like a bully in the play ground. There are of course kids who do grow out of it .We had one near where I lived in Lordswood a right thug as a youngster even went as far as yelling abuse at the wife and throwing eggs at my front door .These days he is a hard working guy with a job. I spoke to on a number of occasions these days he is a friendly hard working lad who possibly got put into his place by someone(or simply realized he needed to grow up.) I will never forget what he was but just the same I am genuinely pleased that he was not another Tommy Robinson and grew to be of value to society. The fact that we were able to talk in a friendly way over the last few years possibly might have helped. He regularly left for work the same time that I returned.
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I never of course spoke of what had happened in the past to our ex neighbour. I simply started wishing him a good morning. In time it grew to a more friendly conversation while he was waiting to be picked up in his workmen's truck .Maybe if TR had to work in a building site and had the right people around him perhaps he would grow up.
 
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This thread certainly airs some prejudices but evidence have we little. ThreeSixes provided two links in support of his assertions, the first of which argued against his positions and in favour of those of Chris who. The second is to a Channel 4 programme, which was widely criticised for its poor standards of evidence and journalism. Let's disregard that for a moment and the programme still offered not a jot of evidence for the following:

" They are taken out of school because their parents don't want them taught about homosexuality / evolution etc. A traveller girls future role will be to be a wife, and the boys will be tarmacing, labouring, burgling etc. It's not a case that they are forced into these roles because of lack of education, it is the other way round "

Take away the anonymised, anecdotal evidence and we find a poor planning system, which as well as failing to address housing need generally, also fails travellers and the general community. Certain areas with small, scattered populations end up with expanding sites in unsuitable locations after appeal to the Planning Inspectorate. Their decisions take precedence over those of local councillors. This coincidentally explains the proliferation of inappropriate housing development around Rainham.

That programme concentrated on the one site with serious problems but did briefly mention some wider but still selective statistics. Let's take them at face value anyway. They stated that in 56% of the areas, surrounding 237 sites they claimed to have selected randomly, crime was below the national average. In 27% crime was 1/3 above the national average and in 30% it was 1/3 below. There you have it, this is not caused by ethnicity, cultural practises nor is it intrinsic to one's birth.
 
jogills said:
This thread certainly airs some prejudices but evidence have we little. ThreeSixes provided two links in support of his assertions, the first of which argued against his positions and in favour of those of Chris who. The second is to a Channel 4 programme, which was widely criticised for its poor standards of evidence and journalism. Let's disregard that for a moment and the programme still offered not a jot of evidence for the following:

" They are taken out of school because their parents don't want them taught about homosexuality / evolution etc. A traveller girls future role will be to be a wife, and the boys will be tarmacing, labouring, burgling etc. It's not a case that they are forced into these roles because of lack of education, it is the other way round "

Take away the anonymised, anecdotal evidence and we find a poor planning system, which as well as failing to address housing need generally, also fails travellers and the general community. Certain areas with small, scattered populations end up with expanding sites in unsuitable locations after appeal to the Planning Inspectorate. Their decisions take precedence over those of local councillors. This coincidentally explains the proliferation of inappropriate housing development around Rainham.

That programme concentrated on the one site with serious problems but did briefly mention some wider but still selective statistics. Let's take them at face value anyway. They stated that in 56% of the areas, surrounding 237 sites they claimed to have selected randomly, crime was below the national average. In 27% crime was 1/3 above the national average and in 30% it was 1/3 below. There you have it, this is not caused by ethnicity, cultural practises nor is it intrinsic to one's birth.
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I’ve said my bit.
The only people who don’t have an issue with Irish travellers are people that have had very little contact with them.
There is a program on Channel 5 this Wednesday citing these incredible people and their daily struggles.
I will watch to see if it can convince me that my personal experiences are wrong.
 
jogills said:
Let's take them at face value anyway. They stated that in 56% of the areas, surrounding 237 sites they claimed to have selected randomly, crime was below the national average. In 27% crime was 1/3 above the national average and in 30% it was 1/3 below. There you have it, this is not caused by ethnicity, cultural practises nor is it intrinsic to one's birth.
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Those stats didn't make much sense to me when the show was aired, and seemed very sympathetic to travellers. Traveller sites are in rural locations were there are far less people, so the crime rates should be much, much lower than urban areas. And why would people necessarily be robbing their near neighbours?

A lot of traveller crime isn't prosecuted as police are intimidated. The more telling figure is that travellers are almost 40 times to be in prison in the UK than non-travellers and the figure is 10 times (for men) and 20 times (for women) in Ireland. That can either be due to your racism=lack of education=forced to resort to crime explanation, or it can be because they commit more crime.
 
ThreeSixes said:
Those stats didn't make much sense to me when the show was aired, and seemed very sympathetic to travellers. Traveller sites are in rural locations were there are far less people, so the crime rates should be much, much lower than urban areas. And why would people necessarily be robbing their near neighbours?

A lot of traveller crime isn't prosecuted as police are intimidated. The more telling figure is that travellers are almost 40 times to be in prison in the UK than non-travellers and the figure is 10 times (for men) and 20 times (for women) in Ireland. That can either be due to your racism=lack of education=forced to resort to crime explanation, or it can be because they commit more crime.
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The same will be true for all poor communities I would assume.
 
ThreeSixes said:
Those stats didn't make much sense to me when the show was aired, and seemed very sympathetic to travellers. Traveller sites are in rural locations were there are far less people, so the crime rates should be much, much lower than urban areas. And why would people necessarily be robbing their near neighbours?

A lot of traveller crime isn't prosecuted as police are intimidated. The more telling figure is that travellers are almost 40 times to be in prison in the UK than non-travellers and the figure is 10 times (for men) and 20 times (for women) in Ireland. That can either be due to your racism=lack of education=forced to resort to crime explanation, or it can be because they commit more crime.
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Oh dear even when you choose the ground it's not good enough. Stop indulging your obsessions with ethnicity, culture, religion and the rest and look at it coldly. I'm not defending all travellers because that would be as daft as saying they are all intrinsically more criminal than everyone else. No one is forced to commit crime no one ethnic group is more criminal than another.
 
A great film which takes the viewer on a journey west, from India to Spain, with stops along the way, to dramatize Romany's nomadic culture. This journey takes place over a year's time, from summer through fall and winter to spring.
 
Watching our local news tonight, the story was about Devon and Cornwall police and how they are going to manage the Anarchist protests at the G7 in Carbis Bay.
Apparently they are designating specific protest areas.
Do anarchists comply ?
 
Gilles Lingam said:
A great film which takes the viewer on a journey west, from India to Spain, with stops along the way, to dramatize Romany's nomadic culture. This journey takes place over a year's time, from summer through fall and winter to spring.
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Tony Gatlif has made some wonderful films, which are great to watch whatever your views. The music is always good too.
 
The right to roam and Traveller lifestyle choice have very little to do with each other and to mix the two is an attempt to obfuscate the obvious issue with Traveller lifestyle in a modern society.

Like it or not our society is built on property ownership. Its the gift the Normans gave to us. Under Anglo-Saxon rule most land was common land distributed by the local overlord which eventually move back after death depending on where you were.

The fencing in of Common land was one of the triggers for the English Civil war. So it isn't knew and it isn't just about travellers.

The simple fact is living where we live its almost impossible not to know somebody of Romany or Irish Traveller decent. You don't have to roam to be a Romany its a heritage thing and nothing to do with running around in a caravan.

I am afraid Bud you ain't a traveller you have chosen that lifestyle. That doesn't give you any inherent rights. You weren't allowed to park your van on private land when started and you know this has always been the case.

I don't accept that Irish travellers are an ethnic group. They are Irish and usually from County Mayo. The fact they want to live in Caravans is irrelevant. Romany's most definitely are and they do need their heritage protecting from the some less than pleasant elements of this country.

But you want Caravan sites you fund them. You pay for the infrastructure. We all pay rates we all pay out taxes we have no choice.

You also know way too well well that there is a large element in no way a majority or anything approaching it of Irish Travellers who are involved in organised crime and criminal behaviour. They tarnish everyone else but to claim it doesn't exist is folly just remember where we live and who are our neighbours.

I have seen first hand what they do and it isn't pretty and very frightening and the Police don't care as they have moved off their patch to go terrorise someone else's life.

What I can say from personal experience is that I have never met a Romany who wasn't a good person and I will defend their rights forever.

I am not in the business of funding sites for people who can legitimately live in another country without issue. The reason they ,moved and go ask them is because the Irish changed their legislation because they got fed up with their behaviour and as usual pushed the problem to us.

New age travellers think they should have a god given right to park where they want. You can't live in a society reject it but expect to use its benefits.

Roads schools and hospitals were built with Public money and it is EVERYONE's responsibility to contribute to it. Your child has a right to an education not to be pulled from pillar to post because that's what you want. Don't enforce your choices on them. You had an option too many children of Travellers don't.

My wife is a teacher of over 30 years and time and again she has seen young traveller girls peer pressured into marrying at 16. Taken out of school at 14 despite social services knowing full well they are still in the area.

It used to be common in the Asian Community but much less so now and whilst it has reduced in Travellers it's still there.

If you watched the program of Five (i had to because the Mrs wanted to) you could see that there was not a single thought for the chaos caused by their horse drive. No, I am not saying they shouldn't be allowed to do it they should. They should agree with council a number of weekends a year when they can do it and the Traffic police should be deployed to enable it to happen.

The council should not be allowed to refuse a reasonable request to do it with notice or annually or agreed dates. Councillors think they run the world are I agree can be totally unreasonable over these type of things.

So its down to MP's to fix it. But this won't happen if they act like the idiot did on that programme. in fact it will fuel their case of them thinking that they are outside of the rules of society and need to be stopped.

The question I ask is what would be your opinion of Travellers parking on Priestfield? You wouldn't want it would you.

So we are not talking about if their should be restrictions you accept there should be some but the level of restrictions. I agree there should be more sites but the people who use them should be the people who pay for them.

The Government can easily force their designated sites and actions to make construction happen. I am also not expecting these to tarmac and an outhouse. Some initial development money has to be put in. But the communities who want them should be the communities who pay for their upkeep.
 
Good to see peaceful demonstrations carrying on against certain elements of this bill.
it should mean that more scrutiny will be taken when it goes through the next stages to stop unintended consequences.
 
LSB2 said:
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But you don't require photo ID and, more importantly, the party supplies you with the required ID. The point about the ID requirements for parliamentary elections is that several millions have no suitable photo ID. I see Johnson is now pushing the responsibility of providing such ID on local councils. He is not providing any funds for what will be a complicated and expensive operation
 
When I voted in the local elections last week, the lady immediately in front of me just declared her name, address and postcode and was manually ticked off the list with a pencil and given her voting papers.
It seems a bit weird in 2021 that there is no ability to actually check whether the person is who they claim they are.
I actually supported Blair’s pitch at ID cards for all and would again.
Personally I think it’s an absolute basic.
Ironically, the Tories opposed it previously but are now supporting it, and Labour who originally proposed it are against it.
Don’t you just love politics 😁
 
shotshy said:
When I voted in the local elections last week, the lady immediately in front of me just declared her name, address and postcode and was manually ticked off the list with a pencil and given her voting papers.
It seems a bit weird in 2021 that there is no ability to actually check whether the person is who they claim they are.
I actually supported Blair’s pitch at ID cards for all and would again.
Personally I think it’s an absolute basic.
Ironically, the Tories opposed it previously but are now supporting it, and Labour who originally proposed it are against it.
Don’t you just love politics 😁
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seriously cannot believe you supported id cards!

evidently listening to the tory minister it may simply be that the id can be your voting card. Another thing in the queens speech that is a solution without a problem.

reading through the background notes it seems nearly all bills follow this pattern e.g on the conversion therapy thingy they include the incidents of rape to convert gays but in brackets it adds 'which is already illegal' wtf.
 
I have no problem with this. It’s not a compulsory ID card which’ll directly cost us money to purchase. If you’re one of the very few people who doesn’t have a driving licence or passport then it means most likely a trip to the post office, and no fee.

Sure there’s been little known fraud so far in elections, but it’s a weird system. This is recommended by the electoral commission and is working in NI.

Some of the poorest areas outside London voted Tory last week, so it’s hardly voter suppression. The opposition need to stop championing pointless opposition to particular things and get their act together.
 
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