Bad news for Buddha & travellers in general | Page 7 | Vital Football

Bad news for Buddha & travellers in general

shotshy said:
In my personal experience, the only people who don’t have an issue with Irish travellers are those who have had minimal contact with them.
Ulcombe and Headcorn have very particular issues.
Ask any shopkeeper in Headcorn what they think.
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So there are Irish Travelllers, who behave very badly. Uncontroversial. I won't list the other groups of people, who behave badly because it would be tiresome. No reason to stereotype every traveller by association. Very few of the travellers in the Medway area originate from Ireland.
 
markinkent said:
Yes Trev. I would say county lines / drug and gang culture is a bigger issue.
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Yep, but that's down to volume. 5% of the traveller population are in prison (compared with 0.13% of general population). If there were more of them, the problems would be much worse
 
Trev_GFC said:
Doesn’t society have a bigger issue with ASBO chav culture, Country Lines etc?
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Yes, mate, almost certainly. That's not say that Travellers parking on playing fields and/or leaving a bloody awful mess isn't a problem. But you can't deal with a problem caused by a few in society by criminalising everyone. And there are alreasy laws to deal with antis-social behaviour, and powers to move travellers on if they are parked on a bloody playing field!

It would be like blaming all house dwellers for the problem of County Lines or ASBO youth culture and suddenly deciding that anybody and everybody who lives in a house is guilty of these things.

One poster, just a few posts back admitted that he is, "a prick with a house". Should we assume that his children are anti-social Chavs, and that he himself is involved with County Lines drug running...??!! Maybe he should be arressted and have his house repossessed?!
 
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Buddha said:
One poster, just a few posts back admitted that he is, "a prick with a house". Should we assume that his children are anti-social Chavs, and that he himself is involved with County Lines drug running...??!! Maybe he should be arressted and have his house repossessed?!
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No, what we can say is, based on facts and figures, my kids are 38 times less likely to be criminals than yours are
 
ThreeSixes said:
No, what we can say is, based on facts and figures, my kids are 38 times less likely to be criminals than yours are
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Why are you so vile and nasty? Do you get a kick out of it?

I wont wish you ill. Instead I'll hope that some light and some love will enter your soul, and that maybe you'll learn to find some happiness without the need to attack minorities in society.

Anybody with half a brain will be able to see you for what you are. What a wonderful role model you must be for your children...
 
There's a great new book (published last year) by Nick Hayes called, The Book of Trespass. And I've just read a bit that is worth quoting here:

"The sociologist Howard S. Becker wrote about moral deviance in such a way that the word can easily be swapped for trespass: social groups create deviance by making rules whose infration constitutes deviance, and by applying those rules to particular people and labelling them as outsiders. From this point of view, deviance is not a quality of the act that the person commits, but rather a consequence of the application by others of rules and sanctions to an offender."
 
The problem being mate, is the obvious impact on others.
I’ve said many times that I absolutely agree with anyone wishing to live any lifestyle they wish on the proviso that it doesn’t impact on society in general.
Unfortunately, many travellers do.
I’ve mentioned the wood carver down my way.
He’s welcome everywhere.
Parks up, stays a while, moves on.
No crap, no rubbish, no anti social behaviour,
All in all, a good guy and a good neighbour.
If all behaved that way, there would be no issue.
 
shotshy said:
The problem being mate, is the obvious impact on others.
I’ve said many times that I absolutely agree with anyone wishing to live any lifestyle they wish on the proviso that it doesn’t impact on society in general.
Unfortunately, many travellers do.
I’ve mentioned the wood carver down my way.
He’s welcome everywhere.
Parks up, stays a while, moves on.
No crap, no rubbish, no anti social behaviour,
All in all, a good guy and a good neighbour.
If all behaved that way, there would be no issue.
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And under the new law he will be a criminal.

Wouldn't it be better to deal with those causing problems rather than criminalising all travellers?

Don't just keep repeating that some travellers cause problems. That is not being disputed. Some house dwelling people cause problems. Should you be punished for their behaviour?
 
Buddha said:
And under the new law he will be a criminal.

Wouldn't it be better to deal with those causing problems rather than criminalising all travellers?

Don't just keep repeating that some travellers cause problems. That is not being disputed. Some house dwelling people cause problems. Should you be punished for their behaviour?
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No
I’m beyond reproach 😁
 
Nearly half of Britain's prisoners are reckoned to be functionally illiterate. That is a scandalous figure and explains far better who is likely to be criminalised and imprisoned than ethnicity, or a travelling lifestyle. That would take time and resources to address, far easier to divide and scapegoat.

A group of travellers are trying to settle nearby. They own the land, they went through planning and were turned down and evicted. Almost every other local application has been passed despite concerted opposition. The council have no plans to create the sites they are legally obliged to provide.
 
jogills said:
A group of travellers are trying to settle nearby. They own the land, they went through planning and were turned down and evicted. Almost every other local application has been passed despite concerted opposition. The council have no plans to create the sites they are legally obliged to provide.
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Did you see the Channel 4 Dispatches programme on travellers? The modus operandi of one of the groups shown was to buy up land cheap, move in, create chaos, and then "blackmail" nearby residents into buying the land at a major profit, so that they would move on. It works sometimes too.

No one wants a travellers camp near them, anyone that says different is lying. You can pretend that's racism or discrimination all you like, but it is down to the actions of travellers.
 
jogills said:
Nearly half of Britain's prisoners are reckoned to be functionally illiterate. That is a scandalous figure and explains far better who is likely to be criminalised and imprisoned than ethnicity, or a travelling lifestyle.
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Leaving school at age 12 doesn't help then does it?
 
Buddha said:
Wouldn't it be better to deal with those causing problems rather than criminalising all travellers?
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Yes but the police always say, "it's a civil offence the land owner will deal with it" and the problem is kicked down the road. Literally.

I am sure they are many travellers who don't cause anti social issues while camped up but the local newspapers always cover stories of those who do.if the law is used to deal with those then hopefully that was the intent.

You have to hope that the police will apply the new laws with common sense. Hopefully they have more important things to do than go after the wood carving man who sounds like he is doing no one any harm.

I understand your concerns though Buddha and am not dismissing them. I'd be concerned if I were in your situation.
 
ThreeSixes said:
Did you see the Channel 4 Dispatches programme on travellers? The modus operandi of one of the groups shown was to buy up land cheap, move in, create chaos, and then "blackmail" nearby residents into buying the land at a major profit, so that they would move on. It works sometimes too.

No one wants a travellers camp near them, anyone that says different is lying. You can pretend that's racism or discrimination all you like, but it is down to the actions of travellers.
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I know for a fact that the purchase of land that I am talking about was a straightforward financial exchange, there was no coercion. They are attempting to find a base in an area, which they have always lived in. You may keep your prejudices but your justifications are thinj and unconvincing.
 
ThreeSixes said:
Leaving school at age 12 doesn't help then does it?
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Making education available for all and ensuring basic literacy should be our aim then. I assume we all agree. Nearly half our prisones are functionally illiterate, they are not all travellers surprisingly.
 
jogills said:
Making education available for all and ensuring basic literacy should be our aim then. I assume we all agree. Nearly half our prisones are functionally illiterate, they are not all travellers surprisingly.
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The daft thing is the more educated at school get to stay on while those struggling get kicked out. Because my son was born in August he left school before his 16th birthday. He had learning disabilities which improve with age .As a result he learned a lot more at college than at school. The system is all wrong when schools are increasingly pressured to give up on the lowest 20% of kids .Putting the resources behind the majority. It is no shock to me that many end up costing the country massively more than a proper education would have done when they end up inside.
 
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jogills said:
Making education available for all and ensuring basic literacy should be our aim then. I assume we all agree. Nearly half our prisones are functionally illiterate, they are not all travellers surprisingly.
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It is available for all! More than that, it is a legal requirement as far as I'm aware that children stay in education until they are 16
 
Buddha said:
And under the new law he will be a criminal.

Wouldn't it be better to deal with those causing problems rather than criminalising all travellers?
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Would Shotshy's wood-carver be "a criminal" ??

According to the Governments response to the Consultation:
"We will introduce a criminal offence where:
  • A person aged 18 or over resides or intends to reside on land without consent of the occupier of the land;
  • They have, or intend to have, at least one vehicle with them on the land;
  • They have caused or are likely to cause significant damage, disruption or distress;
  • They, without reasonable excuse:
    • Fail to leave the land and remove their property following a request to do so by an occupier of the land, their representative or a constable; or
    • Enter or, having left, re-enter the land with an intention of residing there without the consent of the occupier of the land, and with an intention to have at least one vehicle with them, within 12 months of a request to leave and remove their property from an occupier of the land, their representative or a constable.
For a welcome, temporary wood-carver, possibly with permission from the landowner, "criminalisation" seems unlikely.

Add that Shotshy's wood carver does NOT;
"caused or are likely to cause significant damage, disruption or distress".
What's the problem ?
 
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