Athletics and children

D

Departed

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There have been a number of parents on here ranting about youth athletics and the ridiculous turn they have taken. There are many idiotic aspects to the direction a lot of sports have taken.

The one that drives me mental is the early streaming of children into specific athletics. Usually money sports but this has drifted over into other less lucrative sports.

The growth of the "Academy" model is a money spinner and misleads parents all over the world. However, some blame needs to be placed on the parent's shoulders for believing that their child is the next "insert superstar name here" and they will benefit from it enormously.

As parents we chose sports away from the pot of gold and that were more family oriented and designed to develop physical literacy, a love of sport and fitness and being outdoors in this great country. The 2 sports all 3 children have gravitated toward are rugby and ski racing. Believe me when I say there isn't any money in either in Canada. Both these sports, until you reach a national level, receive almost zero funding or subsidization.

Having worked with a number of organizations to develop, build and implement amateur sports programs I have seen many of the problems unsubsidized sports face, both at the Elite and participation levels. It is not money. It is the leadership in those organizations shaping the goals of the organization to suit either their own child or an ulterior motive other than the health of that organization.

My premise is simple when I do the work. Everyone has to benefit and it has to position the organization to attract better athletes and larger numbers. And above all it has to be fun. If that is not the focus then I turn down the request for my participation.

I am passionate about this. It one of my hobbies. I thoroughly enjoy it. And to date I the initiatives I have worked on have all been successful. I wouldn't attribute this to me, I attribute it to the parents seeing what the goal is and embracing it wholeheartedly and spreading the word.

Amatuer sports needs true leaders. Then the money will flow in.
 
Are you fighting popularity, the pot of gold or are you fighting both?

You are never going to win a popularity contest. I don't like the fact my son loves football. I want him to try other sports. He will not make it as a footballer. Does he listen to my pleas? Nope. He loves football.

Would love to work with you on one of your projects. Nothing better than kids enjoying sport, whatever sport.
 
LH, I have been working with children in sports as an aside for a while now and it is amazing how the love of money and glam has taken over from if they are good or not.... football takes its place - we are now seeing kids turning up to practice wearing nappies, haven't developed any kind of comprehensible speech... they were great demands in wanting to follow Innis and Bolt but the upturn in US football sees no relenting in its popularity esp being a kicker !!! I think parents have over the reigns in deciding whether the children like sports or not ....
 
Are you saying parents are pushing their kids at such a young age (Nappies??) in search of the pot of gold. If so that's a real shame for the kids. I have seen it in local football for years. A pal is now one of the scouts for Newcastle United. Mentioned recently if there was anyone worth looking at (I see most of the local kids from 6-12yrs old. Truth be told anyone who has ability of that level stands out a million miles. It doesn't take a good local coach or a pushy parent to get to that stage, it takes a kids god given ability.

Like 80 I prefer to see my kids doing sports outside the norm. Unfortunately a 5yr old lad going to school with his mates in UK finds it pretty difficult not to be taken in by football so I ended up involved in football. This is my last year. Done it for 7yrs and tbh I am sick to the back teeth of the 'football for all' mentality that exists and is diluting any good football we have these days. It sickens me that these days we have boys with below average ability being put on the pitch and having to take off players who possibly could become good footballers just so they can get the 50% rule in.

I am all for training them kids. I am all for them being allowed to play but they, like every kid in the history of football should have to earn their place imo. We are going towards a low competition level in general grass roots football because of it.

 
Money is driving who makes it. Amateur sports is big business now.
 
Its a big gripe for me regarding the money involved in amateur sport. I coach for free. In fact I pay our club so that I can train my son......

Football is in fact relatively cheap. Although a few experiences in the recent years

Futsal - £5.50 per session. That's £25+ per month and £300 per year. If you have 2 kids that starts to become a choice of wether they are allowed to play. Then they wanted me to kit my son out in the traning gear which was £60. WTF football is supposed to be the peoples sport. I am one of 3 brothers and at one point we were all playing football at the same time. I hate to think my parents had to sit and make a decision of which one of us was allowed to take part based on cost.

Little Kickers etc - These franchises that are popping up all over the country. WTF is that all about? Kids should be encouraged to play football. Not jump in the car, drive to some strile place. Be coached by someone who is really only interested in the payment the mother made and provide a service that is basically cheap childcare. The FA should undermine the lot of them with all this money in football. Pay qualified coaches to give free classes to anyone that wants them. Salary the coaches and target them on participation.

Taekwondo - Jesus H Christ. That was a direct debit out every month for a couple of strips of tape on a belt. After about 6mths I couldn't stand it any longer. The coach probably didn't even realise my kid had pulled out.

Even the recent success my daughter has had getting into bouldering/rock climbing isn't cheap
12mths membership £300. once a week at a roped wall - £15 (£780), Equipment, travel etc etc etc. Then the instructors have the cheek to offer 1-1 sessions which they charge about £20 per hours for. I think its the reason they held off from putting my daughter into the team so long. I trained her with zero knowledge other than watching other climbers for hours whilst she practised on the wall. We are now a great team where she trusts me 100% with suggestions and if she falls I promise I will catch her (100% record so far). I asked a few friends who are average climbers to give her some guidance and she is now beating most of the other team climbers in her age group (Bar 1, but we will get him next year).

I know we need a leisure industry. I know that kids are big business but the balance is wrong if parents are looking at costs when deciding if the kid can take part.
 
as has been said already sport is expensive and all too often there are clubs and franchises that are making killings without actually doing a great job. Not only have they latched on to the pressure for lazy kids to exercise, but also for parents obsession with success and achievement.
 
A good overview of where the money is going............

_________________________________________________________



How Canada funds amateur athletes — that is, more medals, more money — feels out of step with the Olympic ideal


Scott Stinson | April 1, 2015 | Last Updated: Apr 1 7:40 PM ET


On the landing page of the web site for the British ministry of sport, there is this short statement: “Inspiring the nation through world-class success.”

Modern pentathlon, the 'orphaned sport': An inside look at the Olympic event you’ve probably never heard of

TORONTO — Remo Cigagna, a self-described “financial social worker for the well-to-do” in Toronto, was trying to explain why he spends 30 hours of his week volunteering both his time and expertise for a sport that hardly anybody knows. Even he seemed surprised: “Two years ago, I didn’t know how to spell pentathlon — I thought it had two ‘Hs’ in it, OK?”

It only has one H, but in Canada, it has two Cigagnas. His daughter, Beatrice, is part of the national program at Pentathlon Canada, the sport’s impoverished governing body. Remo Cigagna said his wife used guilt to nudge him toward a closer examination of the group’s financial picture.

“I know how to read and prepare a financial statement,” Remo said with a shrug. “And I looked at it and I said, ‘Aw, sh–, these guys need help.’”

Modern pentathlon is not quite as modern as its name might suggest. It was introduced to the Olympic Games in 1912, with the idea it would highlight the qualities expected of a soldier: Shooting, fencing, swimming, running and riding a horse.

Read more…
It’s a slogan that perfectly encapsulates the theory behind the funding models that are pervasive in amateur athletics today, at lease in those nations where they use public money and are transparent about how it is spent — the government will back winners, and the subsequent medal haul will increase interest and participation in sport and fitness. Gold medals at one end, a more healthy society at the other.

It has always been an awkward bargain. In Britain, the sport ministry recently concluded a public consultation launched last year after an outcry when it adjusted its funding levels, boosting money for some sports and dropping it entirely for others. Among those that got the scythe was basketball, a decision directly related to the last-place finishes of its two national teams at the London Olympics. In Australia, austerity measures last year forced the government’s sport institute to trim spending, which it did by cutting funding for after-school programs and preserving it for elite athletes. The institute said maintaining funding for Olympic contenders in the lead-up to Rio 2016 was a priority.

Canada has for more than a decade followed a similar funding model, with the bulk of government funding directed to those athletes and those sports where international success is most likely. And success has certainly come, with top-three finishes on the medal table at Vancouver 2010 and in Sochi last year. But a model that directs more money toward “medal” sports also leaves less money for those in which medals are unlikely, even though those athletes can put just as much time and effort into their amateur athletics careers as their more well-funded Olympic teammates. As the National Post‘s Sean Fitz-Gerald chronicled recently in a story on the “orphaned sport” of modern pentathlon, sometimes the public money directed to a sport can amount to zero dollars. And so, someone like pentathlete Donna Vakalis, who finished 29th at London 2012, receives not one of the hundreds of millions of dollars that have flowed through Own the Podium, the country’s not-for-profit agency that determines which sports receive federal largesse. She takes odd jobs to make money to pay for training, which costs tens of thousands of dollars a year — there are horses involved — and often has to choose between workouts and work. If she was British, this wouldn’t be an issue: UK Sport increased funding for modern pentathlon when it was cutting money for basketball.

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Tim Fraser for National Post
Donna Vakalis estimated that it costs between $40,000 and $60,000 to compete in pentathlon in any given year. That can include travel and lodging, as well as training for all five disciplines and corresponding equipment needs.

Whether this is the right way to approach amateur athletics funding is, admittedly, a subjective question. There’s no denying that funnelling money toward medal hopes has the effect of delivering more medals. (In Australia, one official called for more funding for elite athletes after his country was bested at the Commonwealth Games last summer by those upstart Brits.) But does the funding model accomplish the larger goal of a more active society? Is a nation, to use the British slogan, inspired by its medal-winning athletes? I asked Rowing Canada if there was a tangible difference in the participation rates in their sport after the success of their athletes at recent Olympics. They are one of Canada’s most well-funded sports, receiving $16-million from Own The Podium in the four-year London Olympics cycle. Rowing Canada responded that it typically sees a 10 per cent jump in its participation numbers after an Olympics; with a membership of 12,000, that amounts to an extra 1,200 or so who pick up an oar post-Games. That’s not nothing. But if one of of the main goals of amateur sports funding is to drive participation, millions of dollars that generates a few hundred new participants each year is not a spectacular return on investment.

At its root, the problem of equitable athletics funding is almost impossible to solve unless success — that is, medals — is taken out of the equation entirely. Training is expensive, and even athletes in glamour sports like skiing and cycling finding themselves scrounging for government money. Canada’s freestyle ski team ended up successfully seeking funding on CBC’s Dragons’ Den, even though the Dufour-Lapointe sisters were among of the breakout stars of the Sochi Games. There is already not enough money to go around, but shouldn’t an athlete who meets the Olympic standard be granted at least a little of the government support that the country grants its other Olympians? The counter is that if you are in the business of excellence, this is the only way to do it in the hyper-competitive Olympic arena. Second place is the first loser and all that.

Canada’s freestyle ski team ended up successfully seeking funding on CBC's Dragons' Den, even though the Dufour-Lapointe sisters were among of the breakout stars of the Sochi Games.

In Britain, the debate had an additional frisson of class envy, because “private-school” sports involving horses and sailboats received increased money while those more popular in low-income areas received less. UK Sport announced two weeks ago that it would stick largely with its current model — citing a survey that said 70% of the public agreed medal success should be a key goal — but allowing that sports with large participation rates, like basketball, would also be funded.

It’s not a compromise that would help Canada’s modern pentathletes, since the country is not exactly bursting with horse-riding/running/swimming/fencing/target shooters. But in the present system, by the time an athlete becomes good enough in a non-funded sport to receive funding, their career will likely be over. Meanwhile, the well-funded sports do well and receive more funding. A number of those athletes also receive private support from organizations that are free to back whomever they like. The rich get richer, etc. The ruthless focus on medals feels just a little out of step with the Olympic ideal. Then again, these are the Olympics in 2015: maybe ruthlessness and naked capitalism are the exact right ideals.

http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/olympics/how-canada-funds-amateur-athletes-more-medals-more-money-feels-out-of-step-with-the-olympic-ideal
 
Totally unqualified to comment on Modern Pentathlon. However I must say its not a very mainstream sport of any kind of ilk in the UK. Is it not the kind of sport that a kid ends up competing in once they have shown themselves to be a good athlete in general athletics club events?

The athletics coaching to kids should be free and subsidised by governments and sporting bodies. I must admit I wasn't really referring to 'elite' levels.

Our next generation needs forced of their fat arses. They should be forced to partake in sports
 
The overall funding model(s) is what should be looked at.

Historically communities developed sports infrastructure to attract and keep residents and employers. These days there isn't a clear plan and as the population ages things like walking and bicycle trails are receiving more community support.
 
Littlest Hobo - 1/4/2015 12:37

Are you saying parents are pushing their kids at such a young age (Nappies??) in search of the pot of gold. If so that's a real shame for the kids. I have seen it in local football for years. A pal is now one of the scouts for Newcastle United. Mentioned recently if there was anyone worth looking at (I see most of the local kids from 6-12yrs old. Truth be told anyone who has ability of that level stands out a million miles. It doesn't take a good local coach or a pushy parent to get to that stage, it takes a kids god given ability.

Like 80 I prefer to see my kids doing sports outside the norm. Unfortunately a 5yr old lad going to school with his mates in UK finds it pretty difficult not to be taken in by football so I ended up involved in football. This is my last year. Done it for 7yrs and tbh I am sick to the back teeth of the 'football for all' mentality that exists and is diluting any good football we have these days. It sickens me that these days we have boys with below average ability being put on the pitch and having to take off players who possibly could become good footballers just so they can get the 50% rule in.

I am all for training them kids. I am all for them being allowed to play but they, like every kid in the history of football should have to earn their place imo. We are going towards a low competition level in general grass roots football because of it.

Two year olds are getting trained these days - look at your beloved club and the way they are getting into the act - I'd even say 6-7 years are way too young to be involved in organised training. Many 'coaches' pout of how they extol the virtues of Ajax and Barca methodologies without understanding the deep seated values and the parents just fall for them - hoping their kid is the next Beckham ... seen too many examples. The 'minority' sports will never get a look in as long as only lip service is paid - many believed legacy of 2012 would have transformed the mindset ... the flawed approach I believe has put us further back than it was...
 
Littlest Hobo - 1/4/2015 15:14

Its a big gripe for me regarding the money involved in amateur sport. I coach for free. In fact I pay our club so that I can train my son......

Football is in fact relatively cheap. Although a few experiences in the recent years

Futsal - £5.50 per session. That's £25+ per month and £300 per year. If you have 2 kids that starts to become a choice of wether they are allowed to play. Then they wanted me to kit my son out in the traning gear which was £60. WTF football is supposed to be the peoples sport. I am one of 3 brothers and at one point we were all playing football at the same time. I hate to think my parents had to sit and make a decision of which one of us was allowed to take part based on cost.

Little Kickers etc - These franchises that are popping up all over the country. WTF is that all about? Kids should be encouraged to play football. Not jump in the car, drive to some strile place. Be coached by someone who is really only interested in the payment the mother made and provide a service that is basically cheap childcare. The FA should undermine the lot of them with all this money in football. Pay qualified coaches to give free classes to anyone that wants them. Salary the coaches and target them on participation.

Taekwondo - Jesus H Christ. That was a direct debit out every month for a couple of strips of tape on a belt. After about 6mths I couldn't stand it any longer. The coach probably didn't even realise my kid had pulled out.

Even the recent success my daughter has had getting into bouldering/rock climbing isn't cheap
12mths membership £300. once a week at a roped wall - £15 (£780), Equipment, travel etc etc etc. Then the instructors have the cheek to offer 1-1 sessions which they charge about £20 per hours for. I think its the reason they held off from putting my daughter into the team so long. I trained her with zero knowledge other than watching other climbers for hours whilst she practised on the wall. We are now a great team where she trusts me 100% with suggestions and if she falls I promise I will catch her (100% record so far). I asked a few friends who are average climbers to give her some guidance and she is now beating most of the other team climbers in her age group (Bar 1, but we will get him next year).

I know we need a leisure industry. I know that kids are big business but the balance is wrong if parents are looking at costs when deciding if the kid can take part.

LH - excellent post.
I have been advocate for Sports for All for years but at cost free.... funded by the Govt. / local Authorities. Several ways to organise this - IMO all sports facilities should be free to all under 12 and coaches available if talent is shown and expressed thereafter. A dream I know but for me it's the only way forward. :14:
 
Thanks Highgate. Surely football has a headstart in this with the new money.

My masterplan for british football

1) FA gets a huge chunk of the new money.
Stick with me, the PL will benefit, the league clubs will benefit as well

2) FA provide sports facilities with the backing of the government for easier land acquisition and planning permission. All land/facilities are the joint ownership of FA & government and cannot ever be used for anything other than sport for all

3) All facilities have employed 'sport' staff. They can be general sports or if the local professional club wants to provide FOC coaching then they can coach the kids. It must be open to all and no 'teams' of any kind be involved.

4) All coaching will be FOC. Summer and school holidays the place will be literally full to the gunnels. Cheap childcare - Yep. But the kids are also learning sport. ANY SPORT

5) All kids that sign up to football coaching must sign a FA charter that they cannot sign up to any professional club without the FA's permission and it must be their local club. FA get a 50% vested interest in the kid until the age of 21 and then a sliding scale from there.

Basically any kid attending these honeypots of free football where local clubs can send in coaches FOC to help the community and also observe local kids have the chance to be spotted. They get free sport and the community benefits. The clubs are free to 'poach' the kids but their money tree isn't quite what it was in the past. The FA bring in much needed future revenue and are suddenly able to control the youth football a little more, thus increasing their standing in the PL.

PL will benefit in the long run with all the extra coaching given to these kids. The numbers will go through the roof. Money will stop going outside of Britain and we will also end up with a much stronger lower league setup.

This would use the money in a positive manner, instead of just increasing the wages of the players by a few more zeros.
 
I suppose it's all about gambling on spending billions on youth health and fitness over long term health gains. Add a major overhaul on food and diet and we have cracked it...
 
Ox, perfectly legit purpose for the 'extra' costs - piecemeal efforts hasn't been a success.