Aston Villa vs Millwall Match Thread Mon 22nd April 1pm. | Page 12 | Vital Football

Aston Villa vs Millwall Match Thread Mon 22nd April 1pm.

I do s
holtelower said:
Don't know.....

I think the next month (inc. the last three games) are absolutely crucial to Kienan's future, and for me, he isn't taking that chance - let me explain why....

We get promoted to the Premier League - does Kienan Davis get anywhere near a premier league 11 ? - to be honest, I have my reservations whether Tammy Abraham is good enough for the Premier League, so I certainly don't think Kienan is. If we go up, Kienan needs to be steamrolling this division to have a chance and he isn't - and remember, he ain't that young - him and Abraham are basically the same age - at the age of 18, Abraham had scored nearly 30 goals in a season for Bristol City, at 21 - he has scored 25 for us - Kienan has scored 2 goals in his career.He had a bog standard, easiest chance you could ever have today, and it missed his head and hit his arm

Or we stay down, lose Abraham, probably lose Kodjia - would you want to go into next season with a guy up front who has scored 2 goals in three years ?

As I said, he has all the physical attributes as Emile Heskey, but what Heskey did was he had an end product, either himself, or setting up others. Davis isn't at the moment, he does well to get into a position, you think "this is it" and then it fizzles out. With Tammy out, this was Kienan's big chance to make a mark in a team that creates chances for fun, and for me, he isn't taking the chance. I liken him to when Delfounesu came onto the scene - you kept thinking "this lad has got something" but it never transpired. I reckon Keinan will be at a similar level in a few years.

As said above, Kodjia is frustrating, however, in the last three games, games we haven't been at our best, he was insrtumental in getting 3 points v Sheff Wed, and was instrumental today in getting 3 points - and if you want to be successful - you need match and point winners up front
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I do see what you mean and I would be torn over whether to play kodja or keinan but with regards to what he has done at his age compared to Tammy.... I feel like people have often said this about Jack grealish (not necessarily on this thread!). But I think circumstance comes into it as well Davies has had injuries and came via a different route to Tammy. Same when conparing jack to other england internationals of a similar age... they were coming through into successful well run clubs and Jack was coming through at a time when we were a complete shit show.

But his talent was always there.

I guess only time will tell with Kienan as you say he could be really up there in a couple of years.

But I’d also love to see him get a run and see what he can do given time. I suppose if we go up he might go out on loan?
 
Its a bit of a catch 22 with Kienan. I think managers look at him and think he isnt going to give me goals, so he doesnt get the starts. He doesnt get the starts he doesnt get the goals. In the home game against Bristol there was one wonderful moment when he had just come on, had a long ball played up to him, held of three defenders and went clear. But then he gets in front of goal and it doesnt look like happening. But he does give us something that none of the others do. So its a keep for now.
 
wittonite said:
Its a bit of a catch 22 with Kienan. I think managers look at him and think he isnt going to give me goals, so he doesnt get the starts. He doesnt get the starts he doesnt get the goals. In the home game against Bristol there was one wonderful moment when he had just come on, had a long ball played up to him, held of three defenders and went clear. But then he gets in front of goal and it doesnt look like happening. But he does give us something that none of the others do. So its a keep for now.
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It is goals that give strikers confidence and I do feel that once he gets the first one, they will keep coming. At the moment he is perhaps trying too hard and not acting on instinct. Dean Smith will see things in training that means that he gets time on the pitch - if he wasn't, he would not get bench time or be used as a sub. He will come good and will grow in stature, of that I am sure.
 
Unfortunately as a forward when you get a chance you have to take it, i can see what Davis offers but he just does not score goals.

He needs to take his chances or he`ll just drift into lower leagues.

He is 21 and has scored 2 goals - he should have had double figures by now minimum.
 
ASPINALL said:
Unfortunately as a forward when you get a chance you have to take it, i can see what Davis offers but he just does not score goals.

He needs to take his chances or he`ll just drift into lower leagues.

He is 21 and has scored 2 goals - he should have had double figures by now minimum.
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At the end of the day your right. In many ways Davis can be superior to Tammy. Better in the air, hold up play, less inclined to try and over complicate things. But then you look at the goal records. Tammy is about 6 months or so older than Davis but has scored over 50 goals, Davis has 3 in all competitions.
 
Tammy has that rare skill of anticipating where you need to be when the ball comes in to the box and getting there. He misses twice as many as others because he gets himself twice the opportunities others get. He’s a sniffer, Alan Clarke of Leeds, Gary Lineker, goals inside the box. You’ve got it or you haven’t and at this level Tammy has got it. Even though we’re getting the ball in the box far more now than for many years, I doubt if Kodjia or Keenan would have hit anything like 25 if they had had Tammy’s run in his position. Obviously, Dean thinks the same or else he wouldn’t have played him over others.
Keenan definitely offers us something different but Kodjia I would let go for the right price.
 
I love the Kodj but think Tammy is way above anything we have had up front for many years, since Benteke probably.
 
@ASPINALL - it's a good debate. Don't think there's any argument we haven't had anyone close to Benteke since his departure though. What I am intrigued to hear though is if you think Tammy has the capability to step up to the PL? I have huge doubts I will admit, probably based on his conversion rate. Could he end up falling into that category of striker of being too good for the Championship but not got enough for the Premier League (I'm thinking the likes of Ebanks-Blake, Nugent, Jerome, Gayle, etc).
 
Tierney said:
@ASPINALL - it's a good debate. Don't think there's any argument we haven't had anyone close to Benteke since his departure though. What I am intrigued to hear though is if you think Tammy has the capability to step up to the PL? I have huge doubts I will admit, probably based on his conversion rate. Could he end up falling into that category of striker of being too good for the Championship but not got enough for the Premier League (I'm thinking the likes of Ebanks-Blake, Nugent, Jerome, Gayle, etc).
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Possibly mate - massive step up in defensive quality in that league, and as you have mentioned many players do not make that grade.

His movement and touch i think are superb, i think he would score goals in that Chelsea team if Sarri played his best team which he seems unable to do for some reason.

He has scored goals for us this season out of nothing, didn`t he miss first 8 games and has scored 25 already ? Madness considering how gash we have been for a large chunk of it.
 
I like Davis. I hope he becomes a superstar for us. His overall game is better than Tammy's but Tammy scores goals. Goals are what count so Tammy starts but if Tammy is out, the midfield can push further forward to capitalise on Davis' hold up play.
 
Tierney said:
@ASPINALL - it's a good debate. Don't think there's any argument we haven't had anyone close to Benteke since his departure though. What I am intrigued to hear though is if you think Tammy has the capability to step up to the PL? I have huge doubts I will admit, probably based on his conversion rate. Could he end up falling into that category of striker of being too good for the Championship but not got enough for the Premier League (I'm thinking the likes of Ebanks-Blake, Nugent, Jerome, Gayle, etc).
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I have huge doubts as well Tierney but its not based on his conversion rates entirely, but a much better standard of defending in the Prem.
 
wittonite said:
I have huge doubts as well Tierney but its not based on his conversion rates entirely, but a much better standard of defending in the Prem.
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They come hand in hand though. As the defending improves you need to maintain a high conversion rate if you're going to win games.
 
Tierney said:
Out of interest SD, why aren't you keen on Kodjia and has it always been the case (ie. even when he kept us up in 2016-17) or has your opinion changed since his injuries?
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I have never thought he was a real team man , and he went further down in my estimation when he ambled across to try and stop the cross that led to Albion's equaliser at their place. It was a completely half arsed effort considering he was a sub.

He is capable of so much better really , as seen at Rotherham where he was superb , but we don't see that often enough.
 
sirdennis said:
I like Tammy. I like Keinan . I am not so keen on Kodjia.
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Same - Kodjia isn't a team player it's that simple. We can sit here an say he has this or that and only lazy in certain ways but ultimately he is inconsistent at closing down and rarely tracks back even when he is the one to lose it. We hunt in packs to win the ball high up the pitch like Spurs and Liverpool and you need everyone on the same page to do it.
 
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