Aston Villa v West Ham Match Thread - Wed 3 Feb @ 8.15pm - BT

[CDX_EIRE]

Here’s a thought to throw in to the analysis. Dean won his manager of the month in December after a good run of games and very few conceded goals. Point 1, Hause played throughout the month. No 2 Barkley didn’t play at all.

I partly agree I think we looked better with Grealish central and two options for him out wide. I will add we also played a lot of poor teams and teams at the right time e.g. WBA, Wolves and Palace.

If you look at the month of November, December and now January I think you see a team that is a bit jackal and hyde. In November we only won one game which is where we tore about Arsenal but lost to Southampton, WHU and Brighton. We had a great December and then once again a very stop-start January.

I think we've just got a young and inexperienced team, an inexperienced manager and we're playing in very odd times.

 

[Wicked Messenger]

WOW! Isn't it amazing how differently we all see things.

I think the exact oppostite.

I think our calmness on the ball, and our ability to stroke it around the back 5 without being rushed gives the message to the opposition that you can try and panic us but we're in control.

I was praising us for it 1st half against Burnley. Every single one of them is comfortable on the ball and seems to have a great awareness of where there team mates are so they can pass it on without being caught out.

I think it's great, and one of the big improvements from last season.

That is interesting! I don’t see the same progress you see in the passing at the back as it inevitably leads to either Mings or Emi launching it anywhere will do. Sometimes we take a short goal kick make one or two panicky passes for it to go back to Emi to do what he could have done in the first place, launch it. I don’t want to see it launched I want to see us pass our way up the pitch and out of the danger zone. We are one of the worst I’ve seen at this. I think part of the problem is that if we can’t get it to Jack we’re a bit clueless about what to do next. Unless it’s a break against an opposition attack when we are often quite fluent. But you and I are definitely diametric opposites on this! . The proof would be for someone to replay last night’s game and see how many times we hoofed the ball hopefully out of defence. (Only for it to come straight back again!)

 

[Tom Cat]

So the bench last night was

Heaton
Elmo
Engels
Trez
Nakamba
Ramsey
Sanson
Cows arse with a banjo
Bert.

So apart from obviously Bert who has shown he has a contribution in him who out of those guarantees improvement to beat Arsenal?.

People talk about changes. One change will have minimal effect. Swap Mcginn or Luiz for Marvellous. Is that one change going to really improve us from the WHU game to a level to beat Arsenal ?.

So in my view changes to affect the 11 need to be multiple , maybe 3 minimum?. I'd be interested to hear the case for anyone of those above apart from Bert being an improvement enough on those that have got us to a 9th place 32 points start to the season .

No one has a clue about Sanson but ok let's try maybe . An unknown though.
Ramsey is the next kid being set to fail.
Engels ?. Nope, why?
Elmo - instead of Cash?. Nope
Trez ? - nope because of Bert coming in . Unless its Bert for Ross and Trez comes in or El ghazi realises what team he plays for as he spent 45 mins passing to West ham last night .
Cows arse ?-
Marvellous- really is he better than Mcginn or Luiz?.

I anticipated this issue . I said ages ago and have repeated that our first 11 or 12 is fine but beyond that we are not great . And this is the issue when suspensions or tiredness kicks in , as expected it has in the latter case.
It is something we have to accept and be realistic.
Fact is I reckon 9 from the 11 that started v WHU will need to start v Arsenal so we are stuck really.

I think at the moment it is less of a case of choosing a better player and more a case of picking a knowingly worse side than usual to give some of the first team a rest. Marv, Trez, el Ghazi and Sanson to replace Barkley, Luiz, Mcginn and Traore maybe. Yeah, we could get smashed, but in the long run it would be worth it. I think if we used the same players as last night we'd be just as likely to get a pasting- they've been running on empty for the last three games.

 

[crimsondonkey]

I think we've just got a young and inexperienced team, an inexperienced manager and we're playing in very odd times.

So much this.

If you expect consistency, or to beat everyone you play just because we got amazing results against Liverpool etc, or you think yeah we're top 4 material - you need to remind yourself of those 3 simple facts that CDX has highlighted.

 

[Gillette]

I think at the moment it is less of a case of choosing a better player and more a case of picking a knowingly worse side than usual to give some of the first team a rest. Marv, Trez, el Ghazi and Sanson to replace Barkley, Luiz, Mcginn and Traore maybe. Yeah, we could get smashed, but in the long run it would be worth it. I think if we used the same players as last night we'd be just as likely to get a pasting- they've been running on empty for the last three games.

 

[Langoe66]

Some interesting takes catching up on this thread for the first time today both positive and a few extremely negative and as ever a few in between. As always balanced perspective needed when we lose a few. The season’s by no means falling apart at the seams and you’d hope there will be plenty of analysis being done by the coaching team between now and Saturday to try and improve what’s been a sticky period points wise and performance wise in some more recent games. Collectively and individually last night we just weren’t good enough. Dean obviously realises that judging by his after match comments and so will the players.
32 points from 20 games is a fantastic position for us to be in, nobody would have predicted us being anywhere near that total at the start of the season and whilst we all want to see an improvement in our performances recently ie Burnley second half, Saints to a certain extent despite the win and yesterday in particular, we’ve got so many points in the bag I personally don’t feel the desperation that some have because we’ve lost 4 out of the last 7. I’ve seen enough from us to suggest the club is continuing to succeed and re-build, putting building blocks in place to give ourselves a real chance to compete at the top half of the Prem again. Won’t happen overnight and whilst we’ve struggled a bit in recent games, we’re doing better than I ever thought we would so far this term. A few concerns for sure at present but more than happy with the current state of the club both on and off the park.

 

[ironside]

I agree with the basic points of Langoe66 post. Consolidating the best of this season and building on it for next year seems realistic: providing Jack is still part of the picture going into next season.

 

[Tom Cat]

I agree with the basic points of Langoe66 post. Consolidating the best of this season and building on it for next year seems realistic: providing Jack is still part of the picture going into next season.

That's the most important thing about next season. We have to keep Jack. Kidnap him if needed, but we can't lose him. To do that the owners have to invest. There are plenty of players who would love to be on the same team as him, but they won't bother coming if he is sold.

 

[robbali]

If he is sold we have to get on with it though. Our squad will have to be strengthened again in the summer. No point in denying that at some point he will move on if we dont match his ambition.

 

[robbali]

I'm surprised at how many people are blaming either our tactics or the tactical prowess of David Moyes. We created enough chances to win the game and conceded two very poor goals.

First half we defended well, but attacks were breaking down in the final third, mostly due to Villa giving possession away cheaply through the inadequacies of El Ghazi and surprisingly Ross Barkley.

Second half, El Ghazi was off and we immediately looked more dangerous. We had numerous chances to score but again, the inadequacies of Ross Barkley in particular let us down. His glaring and most memorable mistake of the night was blasting a pass with far too much power at Grealish who was unmarked in space inside the West Ham box.

We conceded two counter attack goals that the goalkeeper should have dealt with, and a well worked goal from Soucek. Absolutely shocking performance from Martinez who would have also been chipped and scored against by Antonio if it wasn't for Mings.

Konsa, Martinez and Barkley all put in terrible performances, and when three of your better players all have an off night simultaneously, it spells disaster. El Ghazi was beyond terrible in the first half, I don't think there was a single time in the first half where he didn't give possession away to West Ham.

I just hope we respond against Arsenal and then keep a bit of momentum going from then until the end of the season, because I couldn't cope with a lower mid table finish after the first half of a season we had.

You might have to. Cope, that is.

 

[robbali]

I agree with you mate but I read all this last season about how well we were doing, then it was how well we had played and lost, then it was oh shit we've lost again and again.
It's how it starts, we start saying stuff like we beat Liverpool and Leicester etc, then we were unlucky at City and United, now it's West Ham played well, (despite us all thinking it was a certain 3 points) next it will be we are in a better position than last season etc. It's a pattern of excuses to justify things to ourselves without criticising players or the manager.

We need to stop the slide before it happens, not go oh fuck me I didn't see that coming, when in fact we did but we chose to make excuses rather than act.

I get that people want to spin the positives, it's what the modern world want to hear, it makes us feel better, The was I am is I analyse everything and look at where we can improve next time, yes we've improved from last season but it's now stopped improving and is creeping backwards again.

Define, measure, analyze, improve, and control (DMAIC)

Ironic that West Ham have in previous seasons done exactly this....even more to the extreme.
January they've been second or third. By April they are hovering above the bottom 4. Not this season, I suspect.

 

[eltoro]

I’d be happy with a change in formation, or at the very least a change during the game when things aren’t going swimmingly, keep the opposition guessing, because West Ham had us sussed from the get go...
This is one of the main reasons I don’t rate Dean, he seems to be unable to change things, him and Shakespeare do a lot of pointing but nothing changes, unless they’re pointing at EL Ghazi and saying “he’s shit him“

 

[Tom Cat]

If he is sold we have to get on with it though. Our squad will have to be strengthened again in the summer. No point in denying that at some point he will move on if we dont match his ambition.

This isn't the right thread for it, but my 2 cents on the Grealish summer situation is that we need to think like Spurs. If they got hold of Jack a couple years ago, he wouldn't be linked to Utd every week. They are not looked at in the same light. Spurs have kept hold of all of their stars over the last 5 or 6 years (only selling Bale overseas, which even Utd and City have to do). Are we that far behind them? I don't think so. A couple of signings of intent and the bridge is gapped. If we sell Grealish, we won't get another one of him any time soon and will perpetually be seen as a Saints or Wolves kind of selling club. We wouldn't attract names and then get stuck in the cycle that saw us capitulate with Randy.

 

[Villan57]

Just time for a Jack is going nowhere

 

[Silhillvilla]

We've always sold our stars historically, not necessarily always by choice but as top players they've wanted to either go on and win medals or bulk up the bank balance or both. Can the new owners buck the trend

 

[Tom Cat]

We've always sold our stars historically, not necessarily always by choice but as top players they've wanted to either go on and win medals or bulk up the bank balance or both. Can the new owners buck the trend

We will see, but they need to show they've got the bollocks to think they can at least

 

[Gillette]

I’d be happy with a change in formation, or at the very least a change during the game when things aren’t going swimmingly, keep the opposition guessing, because West Ham had us sussed from the get go...
This is one of the main reasons I don’t rate Dean, he seems to be unable to change things, him and Shakespeare do a lot of pointing but nothing changes, unless they’re pointing at EL Ghazi and saying “he’s shit him“

You see Dean talking to Shakey or JT like he is on the terraces moaning like a fan. YOU are controlling all this!

 

["Merd"]

From what I witnessed, it was just a tired performance with not many of the team at the races. We've just had two weeks off with COVID so we shouldn't really be that lethargic.

Perhaps it was one of those games against opposition that didn't suit us. Don't think West Ham are particularly good, just think we are having a dip for whatever reason.......it happens.

 

[gator]

Disappointed of course but I like to look at the bigger picture and I'm totally happy in the direction we are going. Expectations have gone through the roof mine included but that grounded me last night. Since

That's the most important thing about next season. We have to keep Jack. Kidnap him if needed, but we can't lose him. To do that the owners have to invest. There are plenty of players who would love to be on the same team as him, but they won't bother coming if he is sold.

Who's gonna buy him he's priced himself out of a move this summer.

 

[Tom Cat]

Disappointed of course but I like to look at the bigger picture and I'm totally happy in the direction we are going. Expectations have gone through the roof mine included but that grounded me last night. Since

Who's gonna buy him he's priced himself out of a move this summer.

Hope your right, but I could see Utd coughing up. They love to throw money at things