Aston Villa v Newcastle | Page 7 | Vital Football

Aston Villa v Newcastle

keggy_keagal

Vital 1st Team Regular
Rondon and Perez (26 goals between them without checking) have been replaced by Joelinton and Wilson

Given that Joelinton was on the radar under Benitez he obviously isnt a genuine Bruce signing

We've replaced 26 goals ish with whatever Wilson can muster

Our most creative midfielder has been out for 7 weeks coinciding with a run of fixtures against top teams

In a nutshell we are overly dependant on Wilson and ASM

I dont know if we'll survive or not but I refuse to blame any of Ashley's managers for taking us down
So do you give Ashley the credit for the 5th place finish then ?
 

McCreery

Vital 1st Team Regular
So do you give Ashley the credit for the 5th place finish then ?
Of course I give him some credit - getting Cisse in the January window made a huge difference to an already positive season

I was arguing with people whinging on about not replacing Caroll while enjoying watching Ba knock them in for the first half of the season
 

Mcnamee67

Vital Football Hero
Mc, since Fat Sam was sacked and Ashley did it 'his way' then every manager has been in the same boat. The scouting of foreign players (by Carr ) and on the stepping stone promise of a bigger club and we won't stand in your way was an incentive to get the likes of Cabaye, Sissoko and others has only helped Ashley to squeeze more out of his cash cow.
 

McCreery

Vital 1st Team Regular
Mc, since Fat Sam was sacked and Ashley did it 'his way' then every manager has been in the same boat. The scouting of foreign players (by Carr ) and on the stepping stone promise of a bigger club and we won't stand in your way was an incentive to get the likes of Cabaye, Sissoko and others has only helped Ashley to squeeze more out of his cash cow.

I get that Mac but it wasnt obvious at the time

I was arguing with people on here claiming that Ashley was destroying the club while I was enjoying watching us qualify for Europe

Imagine that - arguing with our own fans saying that I shouldn't be going to St James' Park while watching us finish 5th

Obviously the season after when he only bought Anita told the true story but as much as I despise Ashly now no one will ever spoil that season for me
 

ukrocks0007

Vital 1st Team Regular
Of course I give him some credit - getting Cisse in the January window made a huge difference to an already positive season

I was arguing with people whinging on about not replacing Caroll while enjoying watching Ba knock them in for the first half of the season
Fucking hell man, that 5th place season was as much luck than tactical nous. I remember that season as well as you do, I'm sure everyone else does as well. They rode their luck a lot that season and Pardspew was forced into playing 4-3-3 at times through injury.
 

McCreery

Vital 1st Team Regular
Fucking hell man, that 5th place season was as much luck than tactical nous. I remember that season as well as you do, I'm sure everyone else does as well. They rode their luck a lot that season and Pardspew was forced into playing 4-3-3 at times through injury.
If you genuinely look for reasons to be pissed off about your team finishing 5th and qualifying for Europe I dont think football's for you mate
 

ukrocks0007

Vital 1st Team Regular
If you genuinely look for reasons to be pissed off about your team finishing 5th and qualifying for Europe I dont think football's for you mate
I never said I was pissed off, I was merely pointing out that the 5th place finish wasn't as impressive as some people make out. Don't forget those players finished 16th the season after and stayed up by the skin of their teeth.
 

McCreery

Vital 1st Team Regular
I never said I was pissed off, I was merely pointing out that the 5th place finish wasn't as impressive as some people make out. Don't forget those players finished 16th the season after and stayed up by the skin of their teeth.
I've no idea what point you are trying to make mate

You dont seem to want to give anyone credit for a 5th place finish or the fact we reached the quarter finals the following season in the European cup yet you want to hammer Bruce regardless of the state of our squad for struggling this season

Let me ask you this - you own a car that needs a new engine, rather than buying a new engine that you can guarantee will give you years of consistent service you decide to go to the scrap yard and buy one that you know has already been unreliable with loads of problems

It would be a bit fucking silly to constantly blame the engine for the car not starting wouldn't it?
 

The Owl

Vital 1st Team Regular
Well lets face it early on under Pardew we did well but Pardew started like that with most of the clubs he managed and in most cases then went downhill fast. This current squad is under performing under a Manager who has achieved nothing but even then its a poor squad. Relying on over the hill, injury hit players like Carroll and Gayle, a noncreative midfield and weak fullbacks. Its noticeable how other teams have more pace than us, we are slow and ponderous. St Maxim may well make a difference but how long will he last before injury occurs.
Next up is Leeds and that is our best chance of points, as they have conceded lots of goals whilst scoring lots. Dont expect to get anything at Everton. as to be honest I dont in most games.
There is no excitement in our games and as we know no real hope under Ashley. Whoever made the Joelinton decision must have had a senior moment, a lot of money for a sunday park player who cannot score. Ashley has no interest in the football side. Look how many players come up through our U18 nd U23 ranks, almost non existant. A poorly run club.
 

ukrocks0007

Vital 1st Team Regular
I've no idea what point you are trying to make mate

You dont seem to want to give anyone credit for a 5th place finish or the fact we reached the quarter finals the following season in the European cup yet you want to hammer Bruce regardless of the state of our squad for struggling this season

Let me ask you this - you own a car that needs a new engine, rather than buying a new engine that you can guarantee will give you years of consistent service you decide to go to the scrap yard and buy one that you know has already been unreliable with loads of problems

It would be a bit fucking silly to constantly blame the engine for the car not starting wouldn't it?
My point is that you're creaming yourself over the 5th place finish when it was more to do with luck than anything.

It wasn't down to Pardews tactical masterclass, injuries etc forced him into playing 4-3-3 which actually worked well for the attacking players. Back when they had players that could actually attack. The defence was still suspect and they rode their luck at times.

It wasn't Mike Ashley's desire to buy decent players and have a good go. A few happened to have a good season that year but faded badly the season after, they were heading down without the French revolution in the January sales.

Bruce deserves to be hammered, he was told not to take the job in the first place but he didn't listen. WTF are they doing in training? Having plenty days off by the looks of things, Shelvey is away playing golf most of the time. They don't look even remotely fit, even Almiron has lost some pace. The rest are down to a snails pace getting pretty much bypassed rather quickly. Their reaction times aren't quick enough, can't pass for shit and shooting is pathetic. All that is on Bruce, yes he's got a shit squad but that doesn't mean they can't be fit or concentrate on basic ball work. All perishable skills that need constant attention to keep up to speed, they aren't doing it. Putting square pegs in round holes, no clue of his best 11 or formation, over reliance on 1 or 2 players to conjure up something out of nothing.

As for Ashley well theres nothing I can say that hasn't been said a million times before.

I'd buy a new car!
 

PieMag

Vital 1st Team Regular
Ashley has no interest in the football side. Look how many players come up through our U18 nd U23 ranks, almost non existant. A poorly run club.
I agree and believe collectively we should accept responsibility for our clubs plight.
Instead the great majority attack Ashley's pantomime figures, blaming brooocy, pardcunt et al .

Waiting for Ashley to employ a 'good' manager, which essentially is what the aforementioned majority seem to be doing, is insane.
 

McCreery

Vital 1st Team Regular
My point is that you're creaming yourself over the 5th place finish when it was more to do with luck than anything.

It wasn't down to Pardews tactical masterclass, injuries etc forced him into playing 4-3-3 which actually worked well for the attacking players. Back when they had players that could actually attack. The defence was still suspect and they rode their luck at times.

It wasn't Mike Ashley's desire to buy decent players and have a good go. A few happened to have a good season that year but faded badly the season after, they were heading down without the French revolution in the January sales.

Bruce deserves to be hammered, he was told not to take the job in the first place but he didn't listen. WTF are they doing in training? Having plenty days off by the looks of things, Shelvey is away playing golf most of the time. They don't look even remotely fit, even Almiron has lost some pace. The rest are down to a snails pace getting pretty much bypassed rather quickly. Their reaction times aren't quick enough, can't pass for shit and shooting is pathetic. All that is on Bruce, yes he's got a shit squad but that doesn't mean they can't be fit or concentrate on basic ball work. All perishable skills that need constant attention to keep up to speed, they aren't doing it. Putting square pegs in round holes, no clue of his best 11 or formation, over reliance on 1 or 2 players to conjure up something out of nothing.

As for Ashley well theres nothing I can say that hasn't been said a million times before.

I'd buy a new car!
We started that season 11 games unbeaten so he wasnt forced into playing any system

You say that back then we had players who could attack - exactly, we now dont (or not many of them)

I'll throw some names in from that squad for you to compare to today's.....Ba, Cisse, Tiote, Colloccini, Cabaye, Ben Arfa, Santon, Simpson, Gutiérrez......

Everyone of them in their day would improve this current squad

This is purely down to Ashley's continued disinterest and to blame anyone other than him is excusing him of this shambles regardless of whether it's all been said before or not
 
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Pardews gone Mac, and proven himself to be shite elsewhere

Focus on the now, i agree the one constant is Ashley but he doesn't put the cones out, agree the dietary needs of the players, develop the talent, agree tactics and formations. He's delegated that to Bruce and he's failing
 
There's still no comparison between Rafa and Broocey. Plus that's discounting trophies as well.

Rafa's time here was blighted by politics in that he wanted what was best for the football club with an obvious long term plan in place. Under a proper ownership then I don't doubt the style of play would have been better although we did play some good stuff at times.

Rafa's foundation building was all done on a net spend of fuck all.

Broocey on the other hand has abused our ears and eyesight with utter shite whilst dismantling the foundations of what there was some 18 months or so ago. All this for a nigh on £70m net spend.

Wonder where we'd be now if Rafa was allowed a spend of that amount because we wouldn't be down the bottom.
 

McCreery

Vital 1st Team Regular
Pardews gone Mac, and proven himself to be shite elsewhere

Focus on the now, i agree the one constant is Ashley but he doesn't put the cones out, agree the dietary needs of the players, develop the talent, agree tactics and formations. He's delegated that to Bruce and he's failing

You're not suggesting that Ashley's appointments are given all of the necessary tools to succeed are you?

Of course he's struggling (see my car engine analogy) - he was entirely the wrong appointment from day one
 

PieMag

Vital 1st Team Regular
Pardews gone Mac, and proven himself to be shite elsewhere

Focus on the now, i agree the one constant is Ashley but he doesn't put the cones out, agree the dietary needs of the players, develop the talent, agree tactics and formations. He's delegated that to Bruce and he's failing
I was under the impression that Ashley's only requisite was premiership survival.
His interest in the club is blatantly obvious, make bucket loads of cash while promoting his real interest, SD.

If we accept that to be true, Bruce is not failing.

Unless of course you actually believe Ashley gives a toss about dietary needs of the players or developing talent, in which case all his managers are doomed to fail.
 

McCreery

Vital 1st Team Regular
I was under the impression that Ashley's only requisite was premiership survival.
His interest in the club is blatantly obvious, make bucket loads of cash while promoting his real interest, SD.

If we accept that to be true, Bruce is not failing.

Unless of course you actually believe Ashley gives a toss about dietary needs of the players or developing talent, in which case all his managers are doomed to fail.

Yep - exactly the reason I used the word 'struggling' not failing in my reply to him
 

ukrocks0007

Vital 1st Team Regular
Ashley is the one ultimately responsible for the state of the club, he's the one that makes the decisions and the buck stops with him.

Does he deserve credit for the 5th place finish? Nope, simply because it was never intentional. Ashliar's remit then is the same now, to stay in the Premier League, they just had better players then and a lot of luck. They still went out of both cups in the 4th round !

Ashley is the one that should be getting it but people aren't doing it, it's been said for years but nothing is ever organised.

Doesnt mean that Bruce is blameless as Bruce is the one that organises training, formations *coughs team selection ahem. Would he have done better with better players, no I don't believe he would've. Don't forget that he was in charge of Aston Villa who was supposed to walk the championship but never did, not even close.

If he hasn't got the right players then it's HIS responsibility to bang on Ashley's door and demand better players. If not then resign! He was 11th choice because no fucker else wanted it, he was told by Shearer not to take the job in the first place. He's failed at every other club he's been to except Hull.

It's a poor squad but they aren't fit and they don't even look like what they are doing! Who's responsibility is that? BRUCE! So why the fuck is Bruce giving them free licence to do what the fuck they want cos they aren't training properly.