Are we heading for another crash? | Vital Football

Are we heading for another crash?

freundorfoe

freundorfoe

Vital 1st Team Regular
The Guardian posted up this video an hour ago with the title "Britain is heading for another 2008 crash. Here’s why"
https://www.facebook.com/theguardian/videos/10153719039786323/

I am no economist so wondered what those of you more educated on economic ramifications of political policies make of the country's current trajectory?
 
Well that's completely unbiased. Blame the government for trying to balance the books when they have been asked to pay out more and more and more of the income they have on people who won't work or just want to claim over the odds in benefits to people who think it's great to keep accepting handouts when they don't need them (oh I know there are some exceptions but we've got to start reigning in what we've been glibly handing out over the years without really checking whether the people 'claiming what they think is theirs' (where in actual fact it's come out of the pockets of those hard at work). The other drain on the economy are those who have been let in and allowed to immediately claim benefits without ever having paid anything into the system. Our society and economy was NEVER designed to work that way, it's just not economical and any society HAS TO BE ECONOMICALLY SUSTAINABLE otherwise it can't serve the people it supports.

We need to straighten out who needs what in REAL terms and just put an end to all the over claiming and 'not necessary' payments (real need payments). Once again we need to take an HONEST look at how much we can spend on social schemes when in actual fact we need to look at what the country can afford. Yes we need to defend our country, yes we need an NHS to deal with all the emergencies (at least). Yes there are people who can't look after themselves because they are incapable of doing so but in other countries they are far more realistic about what they can afford to have. We need a reality check and not an analysis of how much we can steal off the honest people of this country.

ONE THING IS CERTAIN AND HAS BEEN FOR YEARS, IF THE LEVEL OF SPENDING ON PEOPLE'S WHIMS AND 'DESIRES' WITHOUT
E V E R Y O N E CONTRIBUTING TO OUR SOCIETY WHO CAN, THEN THERE WILL BE ANOTHER CRASH AND IT WILL OPEN THE WAY FOR A DICTATORIAL GOVERNMENT WITH A STRONG SOCIALIST (OR RIGHT WING) SIDE TO IT. (which I suspect is what many extreme politicians would like). I for one want to remain free with everyone supporting the country financially who can and in reality everyone needs that too otherwise society will be unfair. SOME GOVERNMENT HAS TO PUT THE BRAKE ON, WE WON'T SURVIVE OTHERWISE.

I'm no ECONOMIC EXPERT but I am a realist and what goes out financially HAS to come in FIRST. If Margaret Thatcher said nothing else right for a lot of people, she did get this right, "If you wouldn't do it in your home economy, then you shouldn't do it in the country's economy".

 
No offence Welshy but was expecting responses from more members than just yourself. Especially Ex, Galvin and a few others as they are often very active on the off topic threads...
 
Sorry been away for awhile...!

The sirens have been sounding for awhile for all sorts of reasons from all sorts of quarters - all with different agenda's as to why.

I've repeatedly warned here many, many times that the weight of our national debt both short and long term leaves us in a precarious position - it's why austerity should have been fast-tracked over the last 5/6 years, not slowed.

At the moment the ONLY economic medicine that's working in any advanced economy is austerity - all those who thought they could spend their way out of trouble or artificially expand the economy by spending more and more public money have all had to reverse before they collapse completely.

If you want any further evidence of the mess we are still in, simply follow the dots of the latest Chinese 'investment' - we've had to go cap in hand to an odious regime yet again because we can't find other international funders willing to underwrite the projects because they don't believe that the quality of our government promises to repay are solid enough....

These projects are fundamental to our future well-being as a nation and our banks/hedge funds/pension funds won't touch them - that should tell you everything you need to know about just how serious and critical our public debt situation still is.

If we start spending money we don't have again - then I expect we will have a withdrawal of support from our international creditors and investors and yes then we'd have a recession even worse than the last one as we finally wake up to the fact that we can't afford to support our public sector and pay our bills without the massive levels of money we keep borrowing.

The standard answer from the left is to raise taxes for the middle classes/rich, but the preponderance of tax is now more than ever in our history being raised from these people - and the one key difference in recent years is that when any government breaks the bond of sensible demands to it's tax-payers, then they simply up sticks and go elsewhere - and this lesson was once again hammered home when the tax rate went up to 50% and it significantly failed to raise virtually anything extra.

Governments have to change the culture and it may well take a generation to do so, but if we don't then this country will be ripped apart and will be an economic basket case - we cannot keep living off of debt, it's utter madness.
 
Don't believe the austerity mantra. The thing about austerity is that aims to claw back money and reduce debt, but it often is shouldered on the backs of those on low income or those that rely on benefits (yes including pensions and disability benefit).

Austerity is also not a buzz word for "punish the poor" as some people lefter than myself assume. But what is true is that this government has ensured that is the case.

Last time I checked, the GLOBAL recession was caused by irresponsible banks and house purchase schemes NOT persons working on minimum wage collecting benefits to top up to a living wage.

It want even the fault of so called scroungers. At the end of the day, of you are at home collecting benefits for nothing and spending it all on fags and booze, you are still posting more tax than Apple, Amazon, Starbucks etc, who have between them not reverb amassed a million between them in the last 5 years.

If you want to believe like Tel, that people on benefits are worse scroungers than the annual £120 billion tax dodge(dwarfs the benefits bill) that big companies partake in or the banks that got us £780 billion in debt then you are having the wool pulled over you eyes.

And of you think that the most vulnerable in society should subsidise this mess, and think that they have the money to do so then that is even worse. The only way you can get the poor to subsidise this is to take away their tax credits and in work benefits and send them down to the food banks.

And who will pay money back into the economy then? You can see why we are heading for another crash: we are making the 90% subsidise the richest 10% while they all hoard away their money and take our hard earned taxes to pay for their mistakes and prop up their poor business models. That is what is damaging the economy, we have sucked the cash from the working-middle class and lost our demand in the process
 
I know a lad who's dad is worth 70m. He gives himself a pay rise every year, won't invest in the company and keeps his staff on minimum wage unless your management. Top tosser. So you make a excellent point 11.

 
Yeah. Let's use the the minority of business owners to castigate the entire species. Fuck you. I don't treat the people who work for me like that. Not even close.
 
80deg16minW - 6/11/2015 19:45

Yeah. Let's use the the minority of business owners to castigate the entire species. Fuck you. I don't treat the people who work for me like that. Not even close.
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always making it about you 80 :5:
 
80deg16minW - 6/11/2015 19:45

Yeah. Let's use the the minority of business owners to castigate the entire species. Fuck you. I don't treat the people who work for me like that. Not even close.
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you do make an excellent point though 80.

It IS the minority of business owners that do this, but unfortunately it is the minority of business that own most of the market, and therefore hold workers wages to ransom. You may recall that I own an SME based in biological-computing based research where we pay very well, and it infuriates me as much as you to see supermarkets happily and purposely paying low wages because they know our taxes will cover the rest.

I don't understand why people are not aware of this?
 
Not an economist.

But don't we get a lot of money from our financial services? If we raised tax on them or got them to not dodge tax, wouldn't they leave and we would have less?

As for sellers of commodities like apple, amazon, starbucks ect. If we raised tax and they left, wouldn't they be the ones to miss out on a biggish/mediumish/whateverish market?

Also, isn't it in the best interests of the nation to have a fit and educated workforce with a good to great infrastructure?


oooh i have another question.

Would changing of tax laws so international companies can't dodge tax be a violation of tpp if it could be argued that it benefited home companies that prospered from the vacuum left by the international companies?

80. great job with your workers.
 
zzz TTIP is something I am very worried about because as you say, TTIP is all about loosening trading standards to open up European commodity (water, education and health) to American private investment. I find it it insidious that a trade deal will only come from our American cousins willabout if basic concepts such as corporation tax, workers rights and trading standards are relaxed. The fact all negotiations are being conducted behind closed doors is alarming.

Money made from me, you, the plumber down the road, the private landlord that owns half the street, supermarkets and international conglomerates needs to go back into the economy, not off shore tax havens like the Cayman Islands.

Regarding corporation tax and raising it - we already have low corporation tax (in fact less than half of CT in the US) and much lower than some of our more successful European counterparts. It is scaremongering to suggest raising CT will harm us because a relatively small increase will help us a lot and still see us have lower CT than those around us.

Cracking down on tax avoidance - no corporation world risk throwing their toys out of the pram for being told off regarding their tax avoidance scheme as that would get too much backlash - and if they did move away, then there is a gap in the market for a better, more moral business to fill.
 
There is a global move to clamp down on tax avoidance. Many new tax treaties and laws to try to stop it.

While I think in the corporate world smaller is better and many multinationals should be broken up, if not all, who do you think will be hit the hardest by raising the wage of super market workers?

52% of wages in Canada are paid to government employees. The math doesn't work.

So many unsustainable practices that people are attempting to,change with new and improved unsustainable practices.

Austerity? Take a good hard look at New Zealand's economic history and see what can happen if people have to reset their values. Hard work and frugality are the answer.

Consumerism. Where do we start with that and it's staggering impact on everything?

Seemingly disparate issues that aren't really.
 
freundorfoe - 7/11/2015 13:22

I feel like 80 is suggesting he's worth 70M
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Lol. More like $70.00. Higher wages in supermarkets will lead to higher food costs.
 
80deg16minW - 7/11/2015 14:31

freundorfoe - 7/11/2015 13:22

I feel like 80 is suggesting he's worth 70M
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Lol. More like $70.00. Higher wages in supermarkets will lead to higher food costs.
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So be it, the most competitively priced will win those over that are on a budget. That's how the free market works - it has to play to the demands of the market. And besides, the higher wages will certainly help. That is a poor reason to not increase wages and you know it 80.
 
I wasn't judging. Just stating impact. There are pros and cons to higher minimum wages, The cost of living would rise, if it rises at the same rate the net impact is zero. Governments have long subsidized the food industry, in every nation. Why do you think farmers have such a strong position with any negotiations?

Your goals are worthy. I am not sure anyone has truly figured out how to achieve them yet.

Nothing pisses me off more than having an obesity problem in the developed world while people are starving elsewhere.
 
The wealthiest 1% are richer than the rest of the 99% of the world, surely that tells you where the problem is?

Start with them then you can wean the money down to people who need it and deserve it. There is enough money in the world so it can be spread evenly.

There is no reason anyone in the world should be sat on billions of pounds, or 10's of millions of pounds it's just ridiculous. You can live very well on half a million in the bank. It's pure greed nothing more nothing less.
 
Real Deal - 7/11/2015 15:54

The wealthiest 1% are richer than the rest of the 99% of the world, surely that tells you where the problem is?

Start with them then you can wean the money down to people who need it and deserve it. There is enough money in the world so it can be spread evenly.

There is no reason anyone in the world should be sat on billions of pounds, or 10's of millions of pounds it's just ridiculous. You can live very well on half a million in the bank. It's pure greed nothing more nothing less.
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The 1% is such a crock.
 
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