Are The Scousers Sorted Now

W

Wild Willy

Vital Reserves Team
Now, don't get me wrong, what happened at Hillsborough was very sad, and the families have my condolences. However, I am pretty sick and tired of the bin dippers believing that Hillsborough is the only disaster that has ever happened. There have been far worse catastrophes that have disappeared into history, without the need of a sickening song being sung prior to every bloody match. It's no coincidence that not long after, we had the Heysel disaster. These supporters were NO angels, and at the time were quite possibly the worst behaved in the country. I once knew an ex police officer who was on duty at Wembley when Liverpool played at the cup final following the tragedy. He told me how they still behaved like savages, and never learnt from what should have been a lesson a few weeks prior. I don't doubt that the policing was handled badly, but also believe there are relatives of the perished who see this as a cash cow. I just hope we have heard the last of it, because personally, I am sick and tired of the whole thing

I hope the 96 rest in peace, of course
 
I guess you obviously don't find it worrying when your state forces are found by the courts to be responsible for the deaths of ordinary people and then continued a course of action of blaming the victims and covering up what took place.

Also, before you start complaining about your posts being deleted, my guess is that a moderator will move this to open terrace..
 
Wild Willy - 26/4/2016 13:43

Now, don't get me wrong, what happened at Hillsborough was very sad, and the families have my condolences. However, I am pretty sick and tired of the bin dippers believing that Hillsborough is the only disaster that has ever happened. There have been far worse catastrophes that have disappeared into history, without the need of a sickening song being sung prior to every bloody match. It's no coincidence that not long after, we had the Heysel disaster. These supporters were NO angels, and at the time were quite possibly the worst behaved in the country. I once knew an ex police officer who was on duty at Wembley when Liverpool played at the cup final following the tragedy. He told me how they still behaved like savages, and never learnt from what should have been a lesson a few weeks prior. I don't doubt that the policing was handled badly, but also believe there are relatives of the perished who see this as a cash cow. I just hope we have heard the last of it, because personally, I am sick and tired of the whole thing

I hope the 96 rest in peace, of course
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If you don't want to hear about it, stop bringing it up.
 
I do find it quite astonishing that the Scouse fans who tried to bombard their way into an over filled venue for free are not found the slightest bit guilty. Had they not bundled in, there wouldn't have been the crush.

Sure the police can be blamed for it happening, but they can't shoulder it all. That's the thing that gets me about the verdict...
 
I peronally think it is great that they did not give up the cause. The system was very corrupt and the police especially, covered things up...the ones in charge need to be called to account, as the lied through their teeth ....
 
as as already been said, the police had not properly put plans in place and were probably negligent. but at the same time if people intend to get in the stadium without a ticket they are increasing the crowd beyond capacity. surely neither party could have know what would happen would actually happen. the blame cannot be pushed onto just one party, but that is exactly what the police have done for years. they have blamed the fans for everything. maybe if the had come out and accepted some responsibility from the start there would not be so much animosity. that is the big problem the fans have had and rightly so.
 
also the decision to open an exit gate to allow supporters into the already overcrowded area is the biggest factor. it was an attempt to relieve crowding outside the stadium, but obviously resulted in crowding inside. whoever made that decision made a mistake, but I do not think you can prosecute something like this. it was a mistake and that's that. shame the lesson came at such a price.
 
I think it was a perfect storm situation. Many factors caused the end result. You've got one big crush happening outside, and a split second decision was taken to try and avoid any injuries/fatalities outside that unfortunately ended up causing another crush inside and those fatalities that they were trying to avoid.

In the nicest possible way, considering everything that has happened and the way the families have fought for 27 years, I think the jury was always going to vote no with regards to the question about whether the fans contributed to it in anyway. What is certain is the way parts of the press/media and the way police handled it all along, was shocking. And there is no doubt that the organisation and safety measures were not as they should have been.

I know safety measures and everything are at a far better standard now, but I just don't see why anyone would want any kind of standing area back in a stadium. When you look at how many people were crammed in, and not just directly behind the goal, it's amazing that more didn't die.
 
You'd need to have railings on every step to prevent any kind of surge and crush if standing was to be reintroduced. I used to stand behind the goal at Elm Park (Readings ground before they moved) when I was a kid and it was always pretty safe, although they struggled to get 10,000 into the whole stadium, let alone one standing area....

On a slight tangent, it got me thinking how this doesn't happen more often at gigs/music festivals. That tends to be one railing in front of the stage and a free for all of people surging forward when a band start. Surely the same safety regs would have to apply - all seated music festivals?
 
Dave the Yid - 27/4/2016 16:39

On a slight tangent, it got me thinking how this doesn't happen more often at gigs/music festivals. That tends to be one railing in front of the stage and a free for all of people surging forward when a band start. Surely the same safety regs would have to apply - all seated music festivals?
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It's why I hate standing at concerts. If it's a bigger venue and there's seats, I always go for a seat. If it's all standing at a smaller venue, I tend to hang at the back or sides. Only twice have I risked standing in the middle, and on one of those occasions I did get a bit crushed and had to be pulled out by security at the front and then spent most of the gig in the loos throwing up through the shock of it all.
 
spursgirl_4_life - 28/4/2016 09:34

Dave the Yid - 27/4/2016 16:39

On a slight tangent, it got me thinking how this doesn't happen more often at gigs/music festivals. That tends to be one railing in front of the stage and a free for all of people surging forward when a band start. Surely the same safety regs would have to apply - all seated music festivals?
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It's why I hate standing at concerts. If it's a bigger venue and there's seats, I always go for a seat. If it's all standing at a smaller venue, I tend to hang at the back or sides. Only twice have I risked standing in the middle, and on one of those occasions I did get a bit crushed and had to be pulled out by security at the front and then spent most of the gig in the loos throwing up through the shock of it all.
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I can't tell you how many times I've done the concerned Dad bit with my children to tell them to do exactly as you do!

I even once (after get the normal 'oh Dad' response) sent them horrible examples from youtube of what can go wrong - did they listen? I've no idea, but they said they did.
 
Dave the Yid - 26/4/2016 22:47

I do find it quite astonishing that the Scouse fans who tried to bombard their way into an over filled venue for free are not found the slightest bit guilty. Had they not bundled in, there wouldn't have been the crush.

Sure the police can be blamed for it happening, but they can't shoulder it all. That's the thing that gets me about the verdict...
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Well said Dave. This is the truth of it all. This horrible incident wasn't all down to the police, and it wasn't all down to the fans.

It was a mixture of things.

I have spoken to many scouse fans over the years about this and they all say they are the victims. Never their fault. I think I have meet one scouser that I actually like. The rest have massive chips on their shoulders.
 
Real Deal - 28/4/2016 12:46

Dave the Yid - 26/4/2016 22:47

I do find it quite astonishing that the Scouse fans who tried to bombard their way into an over filled venue for free are not found the slightest bit guilty. Had they not bundled in, there wouldn't have been the crush.

Sure the police can be blamed for it happening, but they can't shoulder it all. That's the thing that gets me about the verdict...
Click to expand...

Well said Dave. This is the truth of it all. This horrible incident wasn't all down to the police, and it wasn't all down to the fans.

It was a mixture of things.

I have spoken to many scouse fans over the years about this and they all say they are the victims. Never their fault. I think I have meet one scouser that I actually like. The rest have massive chips on their shoulders.
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The pre match message was "don't come if you don't have a ticket, as we won't be letting you in." Hundreds took this to mean "if I turn up, I'll be able to get into the ground." The problems outside the stadium started when those who had tickets couldn't get to the turnstiles because there were loads of people who didn't in front of them. The crush outside the ground began, the gates were opened to try and alleviate some pressure, and the crush happened inside the ground instead with fatal consequences.

There are a number of circumstances that all conspired (poor policing/stewarding, Sheff Weds not making certain changes to improve safety concerns etc) but the fans who turned up without tickets are as much to blame as anyone in my opinion.
 
Dave the Yid - 28/4/2016 14:33

Real Deal - 28/4/2016 12:46

Dave the Yid - 26/4/2016 22:47

I do find it quite astonishing that the Scouse fans who tried to bombard their way into an over filled venue for free are not found the slightest bit guilty. Had they not bundled in, there wouldn't have been the crush.

Sure the police can be blamed for it happening, but they can't shoulder it all. That's the thing that gets me about the verdict...
Click to expand...

Well said Dave. This is the truth of it all. This horrible incident wasn't all down to the police, and it wasn't all down to the fans.

It was a mixture of things.

I have spoken to many scouse fans over the years about this and they all say they are the victims. Never their fault. I think I have meet one scouser that I actually like. The rest have massive chips on their shoulders.
Click to expand...

The pre match message was "don't come if you don't have a ticket, as we won't be letting you in." Hundreds took this to mean "if I turn up, I'll be able to get into the ground." The problems outside the stadium started when those who had tickets couldn't get to the turnstiles because there were loads of people who didn't in front of them. The crush outside the ground began, the gates were opened to try and alleviate some pressure, and the crush happened inside the ground instead with fatal consequences.

There are a number of circumstances that all conspired (poor policing/stewarding, Sheff Weds not making certain changes to improve safety concerns etc) but the fans who turned up without tickets are as much to blame as anyone in my opinion.
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Agree with you both.
 
Maybe the families of heysel can get justice now?

Thing is, it's not like they learnt - as recently as the CL final in 08 they were stealing tickets and climbing over walls to get in.

Something doesn't add up to say it's all the polices fault, and no one was drunk?

Bullshit
 
Even the posters on the man u boards I have read on side with Liverpool victims families and they're hated enemies. Anyone that fails to side with the scousers on this issue is one fucked up dejenerate and there is nothing more to say about him or her.

27 years...... They took the piss and in 81 it could have been us!
 
Plenty more to say on the subject in that case, learn to spell degenerate and what are you doing on manure boards ?

I suppose when the gates were rightly or wrongly opened it was the police and their dogs that rushed in to crush the supporters at the front , nothing to do with the loveable scallies piling in for free of course.
 
Of course that didn't help matters BC but it was the police on the day that bungled the whole operation with dire consequences may i add.
 
BigBoxOffice - 28/4/2016 20:55

Even the posters on the man u boards I have read on side with Liverpool victims families and they're hated enemies. Anyone that fails to side with the scousers on this issue is one fucked up dejenerate and there is nothing more to say about him or her.

27 years...... They took the piss and in 81 it could have been us!
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Other people are looking at both sides of what happened, they are not brushing facts under the carpet. People do because they think they have to as they feel sorry for the families.

It's clear the disaster was down to numerous of wrong decisions by loads of different people.



 
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