Anyone. But. Liverpool.... | Page 33 | Vital Football

Anyone. But. Liverpool....

Basha73 said:
Sorry Pebble but I’m with CP on this one.

If it was just one season then maybe you could argue it was anomalous. But it isn’t. It’s ten seasons or 460 games. That’s not a glitch or a conspiracy. That’s a trend.

And as CP says cheating is about intent not outcome. Just because a player has been caught it doesn’t change the fact that he has cheated.

Yes there have been examples of other clubs players blatantly cheating but so have ours at times. Perhaps not as successfully but...

I don’t remember us being a dirty shithouse of a team but I am struggling to remember when we weren’t a niggly team, it certainly goes back to Billy mk I at least.

The sad fact is that all clubs look for advantage and look to ‘cheat’ the rules. Just look at players moving forward at throw ins or free kicks.

We aren’t responsible for another’s clubs actions only our own but it’s very difficult to throw stones when we sit in that glass house.
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The "cheating is about intent not outcome" would be fine if it was not for the subjective interpretation of the tackling rules.

Hard but fair no longer exists and has been replaced by a clampdown on excessive force, whatever that is supposed to mean.

There appears to be no discernable difference between the cynical foul and a great tackle; they both get punished the same.

The powers that be seem intent on stopping tackling altogether; it must be part of their quest to make the game entirely non contact.

Time wasting has been around forever with some teams being far more adept than others; our attempts border on the pathetic at times so its no wonder we pick up cards for it.

The authorities could kill off all the other rubbish, like assimilation and handling the ball into the net, if they had the desire, which they obviously do not.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
Yes and I and multiple others gave you examples, all of which you chose to regard.

Also again with the qualifier...cheating is about intent, not outcome. Really unsure why you can't grasp this.
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I presume you mean 'disregard'. Not a problem, I type stuff wrong too.

Examples of Forest players gaining us points last season by cheating? No, you didn't, because there aren't any.

And then suddenly, when you realise your precious stats won't support you on this one, you go to the opposite extreme. 'Cheating is about intent, not outcome'.

I'll ask you again - what did Forest players do that stole points in the way Roofe and Gayle stole points off us? Whatever your cryptic statement is meant to refer to, they managed both intent and outcome!
 
Calvin Plummer said:
Also cheating comes in all shapes and sizes: time wasting, cynical fouls etc aren't done for comedy purposes. They're a clear tactical decision that has an influence on a match. It's not as clear cut as a dive or a handball but that doesn't lessen their impact or if they're cheating.

Given your inability to view the macro or long run I imagine this will just pass you by.
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You should be a comedian.

I pointed out to you that in the home game v Villa they showed great knowledge of these dark arts. One player in each half rolled around in the Forest area holding his head after Benalouane stood between him and Pants, pretending that he should have a penalty and ensuring that the ref stopped the game.

The match replay on ifollow had the Radio Nottingham commentary where Hodge (or Laws?) quipped that a Villa player (probably el Ghazi) had spent several minutes in apparent agony, holding the game up, due to a bruised shin pad. It was that cynical - every ten minutes a Villa player went down 'injured', solely to break up the flow of the game because they were winning away.

I'd agree that attempts at cheating by Forest players have been amateurish - eg Robinson's dive at Boro. But we were 2-0 up, and still won 2-0 after that moment of madness earnt him a second yellow. It didn't affect the result. Do you not get that point, with your love of stats?
 
I imagine this is what it's like debating with Trump. A spoiled child, disregarding anything that doesn't fit his warped sense of reality.

Stay in your bubble Pebble, I'm sure it's warm and cosy in there.
 
If youd missed a really big game and your mate went and you really wanted to re-live the game. Would you read the stats from the match or listen to your mates perspective on the game?
Stats simply never ever tell a whole story, just tell you how many of each word are in each chapter :)
 
Pool eh? I must admit im happy they beat spurs cos i love the fact we are still in such an exclusive club to have won it :) must have pissed a few off in here tho
 
The Danny Taylor I believe in Miracles book gives a very good insight into the Forest/Liverpool rivalry/hatred and its origins.

It all dates back to the John O Hare - Phil Thompson incident in the League Cup Final replay at Old Trafford which resulted in the match winning penalty.

Thompson was interviewed after the game and was apoplectic about the decision; his incoherent rant won him a 3k fine from the FA.

Peter Taylor did not help matters when he was interviewed; He told Gerald Sinstadt that he was sure the television pictures would prove that it was a clear penalty.

Sinstadt replied that the pictures showed that the foul was clearly outside the box.

Taylor then said; "well I'm sure your pictures will show that we have the cup", which I'm certain did not go down too well on Merseyside.

The fact that Liverpool had two goals disallowed did not help matters either.

O Hare gives two instances of how the hatred lasted:

When he finished playing he started scouting for Leicester; he was sent to look at a player at a Liverpool game.

He pulled up at the Liverpool car park and told the steward his name only for the steward to reply "you can fuck off"

25 years after the replay O Hare was scouting at a Sheffield United game; as he made his way up a deserted stand way before kick off he heard someone shout from the other end of the stand "you cheating bastard" to which O Hare replied "Fuck off big nose", yes it was Phil Thompson.
 
a generational thing for sure, my memories of our rivalry are ten years prior to these times, the Daglishes n Keegans of the game.. some truly great players and who we aspired to be like
 
I just realised Forest were probably one of the best cup sides in the country when I was growing up.

Shame we didn't win the FA Cup in 91 for Cloughie. That would have been wonderful.

Cup matches nowadays don't really matter if we're being honest. It seems like ages since Forest have put together a good cup run too.

Oh well.
 
paz1967 said:
a generational thing for sure, my memories of our rivalry are ten years prior to these times, the Daglishes n Keegans of the game.. some truly great players and who we aspired to be like
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Dalglish was playing for Liverpool in those times; he played from 77 through to 87
 
Anyone fancy a big surprise tonight? Thought not. :cautious:

I'd love it, but Norwich haven't really strengthened during the summer. They'll get hammered. (n)
 
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