An Italian friend wrote today | Vital Football

An Italian friend wrote today

Wayne.Kerr

Wayne.Kerr

Vital Champions League
Oggi una delle giornate pi tristi della mia vita, dopo secoli e secoli di interminabili guerre in Europa ,tutti contro tuttti , grazie al sacrificio dei nostri genitori e nonni ,stavamo godendo finalmente di 70 anni di pace uniti in una Europa che ,pur con mille difetti e problemi, poteva sedersi ogni giorno ad un tavolo a Bruxelles per discutere, magari anche a voce alta.

Probabilmente questa fuga, di questo si tratta, il frutto di una PAURA e come quasi sempre nella vita ,la PAURA stessa peggio della cosa di cui si teme e spero che questo non sia l'inizio di una disgregazione pi vasta. I am sorry!

Today is one of the saddest days of my life, after centuries and centuries of endless wars in Europe, all against all, thanks to the sacrifice of our parents and grandparents, were enjoying finally of 70 years of peace in a united Europe that, Even with a thousand flaws and problems, could sit every day to a table in Brussels to discuss, maybe even in a loud voice.
Probably this escape, that's what it is, is the result of a fear and as almost always in life, the fear itself is worse than the thing you fear, and I hope that this is not the beginning of a wider disintegration. I am sorry!

 
I'm sure NATO would disagree with the notion that it was the EU that caused the peace... nothing to stop the UK and the rest of the EU still sitting down to discuss big international issues.
 
A working class revolution and Buddha didn't even vote for it :3:

Took a look at my facebook this morning. Who knew the left were so full of hate?! :29:
 
Yes, well they let Yugoslavia fall apart and watch thousands perish, the member states who went there to protect civilians failed miserably, that was until NATO intervened, NATO has kept the peace in Europe not the EU, in fact EU expansion further East has already rattled the Russians and one thing is for sure the EU member states could not take on the Bear, without NATO behind them.
 
The Russians have a few elite, well drilled and well organised units.... the majority of their forces are a mess. The Russian forces are nowhere comparable to the forces of the Soviet Union... They could take on one to one any country on the edges of the EU such as the Ukraine and Georgia but not if any of the major armies within the EU committed forces. The individual armies within the EU working together could easily take on the Russians and win but the full force of NATO (ie the US) would end any conflict in little time.
 
Hello John-Knee, well it is a long time since I have flown and been pursued by a MIG, but strangely enough felt quite confident back in the late fifties early sixties that we in the West would have been a formidable foe to the Soviet block forces.
I just do not see the main forces in Western Europe nowadays being a match against Russia, who has at her disposal some 2,000 combat aircraft, 1500 attack helicopters and over 20,000 battle tanks.
I have no idea if the Typhoons of W. Europe would be superior to the SU35, or whether the Challenger tank, we have only 227 could cope against thousands of T72's, or whether the West could even match Russia vast army and sophisticated missiles.
Leaving to one side the huge Naval presence that Russia has and the vast number of nuclear weapons at it's disposal, I could imagine a scenario even if we had the advantage at a battle of Russia threatening a nuclear war if we did not withdraw.
We will have to agree to disagree and hope that we never have to face such a situation.
 
Absolute nonsense. Once again, people muddling up "the EU" with "Europe" which are two different things.
 
Well said Steve - brief but to the point.

My concern about the exit is twofold: (1) being is worried about immigration is one thing but racism and bigotry are unacceptable and (2) this could see a surge in right-wing politics and nationalism in Europe.
 
WayneKerr, Muslims shooting and bombing random civilians in our capital cities leads to right-wing politics and nationalism. All much too little, and far, far too late, but you cant blame the general public for being concerned about a million more muslims coming to Europe.

4,500 more were rescued from the med yesterday. That's almost equivalent to a gillingham attendance in one day. And it's every day. Fleeing Islam, whilst bringing Islam to Europe and the Uk.

I wonder if word has reached the camps in Calais yet on how racist we are? Every cloud and all that
 
North by Northwest - 24/6/2016 10:08
I just do not see the main forces in Western Europe nowadays being a match against Russia, who has at her disposal some 2,000 combat aircraft, 1500 attack helicopters and over 20,000 battle tanks.

I could imagine a scenario even if we had the advantage at a battle of Russia threatening a nuclear war if we did not withdraw.
We will have to agree to disagree and hope that we never have to face such a situation.
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The numbers sound impressive, but most recent videos (I've seen) where people have discussed the modern capacity of the Russian army generally take the view that although they have huge numbers, there is a huge issue with reliability etc. Most seem to agree that the modern German or British soldier is much better trained than the average Russian soldier. If it was Russia verses Germany or Russia verses the UK then sure, the weight of numbers would win. But Russia verses a combined force from Germany, the UK, France etc would struggle. Russia despite the raw numbers would be unable to successfully invade Europe and would probably get stuck around Poland.

Can't see Russia attempt an invasion except small scale activity seen in Georgia or the Ukraine. Putin would only consider nukes if he attacked Europe large scale, the US joined the war and attempted to drive the Russians back to Moscow.
 
May I offer my commiserations to Wayne Ker , Gills 1958 , Alderman , RotherhitheGill etc etc.

Being spineless was no defence against the forces of Brexit! I raise my glass to the start of a brighter future. < snigger>
 
The EU was the product of not wishing to make the mistakes of the past all over again. It would keep us peaceful by making us rich and requiring us to get into the habit of institutionalized cooperation on a daily basis. There was a pragmatic version of this exercise and a transformative one. Either way, we would reach a point where we simply no longer cared about the old national passions. There were three basic problems with this idea. First, the EU got ahead of its peoples in terms of underestimating the residual strength of those passions. Second, the EU became a vehicle of those same passions (look at the Scots Nats and Irish triangulating their positions on the EU in terms of reducing British/English influence, and look at German ambition and its policies towards the Euromeds). Third, the EU became an actor with its own interests which it was prepared to defend quite ruthlessly (Euromeds again). I am struck by how absolutely gob-smacked the remainers are by this outcome ?they have become convinced that their world is the only real world, and that only morons and wicked people could think otherwise (two referenda side stepped by a treaty, and institutional reforms which seem designed to baffle and obscure ?Euro presidents eg). They may prove right that we have opened the door to the abyss. The funereal tones and somber mien of Messrs. Johnson and Gove could reasonably be interpreted as the response of people whose leave position was really about acquiring credentials in the battle for leading the Tory party, and now they are stuck with the consequences of which they avowedly wished (and so are we). But the big point is the strength of that reservoir of people that they tapped into and who are feeling their oats in terms of acting in accordance with their frustrations. In this regard, we are the appetizer, other courses in Europe and the US are to follow. And as someone noted above, the left, the liberals, the radicals ?whatever you call them- have nothing to offer beyond singing ?let?s hang on to what we got? and seem completely disconnected from the lives, experiences and expectations their old constituency, the working classes.
I was very surprised by the outcome. I assumed remain would win and that I was right. After all, I?m something of an expert!!!! My sense is that, and Euro leaders calling for haste notwithstanding, we?ll move slowly towards activating the exit mechanism. The important negotiations will precede that, and the result will be a time-honored Euro-fudge which ?like the Schleswig Holstein Question- only three people will completely understand ?that is unless popular or market contagion really takes hold. Then we?ll all have to start taking Ambrose Evans Pritchard seriously. But maybe a collapse of sterling and a fall in house prices is just what the doctor ordered to get the British economy delivering to its people again. We?ve had Heath?s bracing competition from going ?In?. Now we get the bracing competition of coming ?Out?.
 
I just want Opal Fruits back, and to have my cucumber shaped how I want... ;-)
 
jokerman - 24/6/2016 16:23

I want my ice cream to be pure vegetable fat again. I can't stand dairy.
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And Marathon's back, and to put Jif on my pancakes :27:
 
The English and the Welsh voted out.. The Scots remain. Time to say cheerio me thinks. Very proud of the 69% vote from Kent.


















England , the front door is guarded and you can rely on us.
 
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