5p in the pound increase in tax

col8

Vital Football Legend
So I wonder and I would really like you good people to be absolutely honest in the poll.

Would you be happy to pay an extra 5p in the pound on your taxable earnings to help relieve the crisis in the NHS, Police Elderly Welfare and Education? A 5p increase over 5 years would bring £115 billion pounds to the treasury.

So the question is IF the money raised went into the above would you honestly agree.
 
This is my reply to your suggesting this in the election thread:-

5p in the pound is an extra £1250 a year for someone on average wages, sadly I don't believe that the majority would stand for it, they would view it as them being turkeys being asked to vote for Christmas in order for some chickens to get a nicer coup.

Despite me agreeing with you, at least in principle, that it's a good idea, ask yourself the question, can you afford to pay out an extra £1250 each year? Maybe you can but very many are either in debt up to their eyes or are unwilling to forego that night in the pub once a week that this money currrently pays for. You also have to consider that for most households that would actually be £2500 a year due to there being 2 wage earners in the house.

After that it starts to get really complicated, when the local landlord notices that he has 20 fewer customers every Friday, as the money they normally spent in the pub is now going in taxes to fund government spending plans (which may well be very worthy), and his takings are down by £500 every Friday he has to lay off some bar staff, he will also order less from the brewery, as will many of their other client pubs and customers, and the brewery soon has to start laying people off too. All these people that are layed off also have reduced spending power which causes a drop in takings at the supermarket and in cloathes shops, which in turn causes layoffs there and the cycle continues, pushing the country deeper and deeper into recession with fewer people earning a wage and less tax being paid which then negates the increase in the tax rate, so it's all been futile AND there are more unemployed.

Now I understand that the government spending will offset some of this effect but the job losses in the effected sectors will be real despite possible job creation in the public sector. Ok so you may well prefer to employ a nurse rather than 2 barmaids but the simple fact is, there are currently not enough qualified nurses in the UK, hence the proliferation of immigrants working in the NHS, so the unskilled barmaids will be unemployed, paying no tax and drawing on social resources and another immigrant moves to the UK to work (nothing wrong in principle with that, I'm an immigrant myself) adding yet more strain onto an already overloaded infrastructure.

This is just a bite sized piece of the picture and it's way more complicated than the image I have painted here but any economist will tell you that the type of command economy that socialism requires, the tax and government spend to create growth theory, only works when it can be propped up by additional money coming from external sources, it's this money that allows the additional spending that isn't funded by increasing the tax burden and subsequently stifling the economy. What external sources are these? Well in Norway we have a mass of oil wealth per capita but in the UK and most countries that money comes from public borrowing and the problem with this is that it has to be repaid at some point and due to the irresponsible bankers causing the crash of 2008 and the questionably responsible bailing out of said banks, the UK is already in debt up to its eyeballs. As Margret Thatcher once said, the trouble with socialism is that at some point you will run out of other people's money.

The only way to genuinely generate new wealth is by creating things, building things and selling them, preferably exporting them in order to relocate wealth, that is curently in foreign hands, to the UK and this is what the capitalist free market does better than any other form of government. However, on its own, the capitalist market is selfish and greedy and will abondon the weak and the poor in order to create more wealth for the rich. This is why we need regulation and reasonabl taxation but the moment you start to tax to the level that people stop spending you enter the downward spiral of the socialist economy. From what I can see, a 5% tax increase would do pecisely this.

 
Or we could just insist that corporations such as Amazon, uber, starbucks etc actually pay the going rate of tax that the rest of the country have to pay, what's good for the goose

As for our PM's husband helping companies avoid tax, well, I just find that absolutely shocking and a conflict of interests

The rich get richer



 
Exactly Juan. How many billions do the rich avoid in tax every year. One toff has just avoided £6bn? in inheritance tax. NHS sorted just taxing that ****.
 
upthevilla - 30/5/2017 21:28

Exactly Juan. How many billions do the rich avoid in tax every year. One toff has just avoided £6bn? in inheritance tax. NHS sorted just taxing that ****.

That can't be right. To pay £6bn in tax one has to leave a fortune of in excess of £15bn which would make them the richest person in the country, which I believe is actually Roman Abramovic. In addition, the fact that £6bn is said to have been avoided implies that the actual taxable amout is even higher as no one gets to avoid 100% of the tax, there is always some paid. Besides, I'm pretty sure that death duty (there is actually no inheritance tax in the UK, the total estate of the deceased is taxed, not the inheritance of the individual) is pretty much impossible to avoid.

 
Juan Mourep - 30/5/2017 21:09


Or we could just insist that corporations such as Amazon, uber, starbucks etc actually pay the going rate of tax that the rest of the country have to pay, what's good for the goose

As for our PM's husband helping companies avoid tax, well, I just find that absolutely shocking and a conflict of interests

The rich get richer

In principle you are right but the econimic realities are far more complicated.

 
NHS - free health care [until you get old and infirm - then they kick you out of hospital asap into so called 'care' :93: :93: where all of a sudden jack shit is free and God help anyone who has been stupid enough to own their house and have some small savings - never mind the endemic abuse suffered. FTA
 
Villan Of The North - 30/5/2017 18:39

5p in the pound is an extra £1250 a year for someone on average wages, sadly I don't believe that the majority would stand for it, they would view it as them being turkeys being asked to vote for Christmas in order for some chickens to get a nicer coup.

Sky TV or social care. It seems the choice is made.
 
It depends on how it's structured. If you earn £25k per year and have to pay an extra £1,250 in tax, it means cutting down on other things to make ends meet (as in VOTN's example). If you earn £200k per year and have to pay an extra £10k, you won't be happy but it's? money that would have gone into the stock market or other investments rather than discretionary spending.
 
col8 - 30/5/2017 17:00

Would you be happy to pay an extra 5p in the pound on your taxable earnings to help relieve the crisis in the NHS, Police Elderly Welfare and Education? A 5p increase over 5 years would bring £115 billion pounds to the treasury.

So the question is IF the money raised went into the above would you honestly agree.

I would have no issue with paying a little more income tax, but we all know such increases would invariably be put towards tax cuts for those who are better off. It has been the same since day dot, it's just more brazen under a Conservative government.

Nice idea though.
 
BodyButter - 31/5/2017 09:33

It depends on how it's structured. If you earn £25k per year and have to pay an extra £1,250 in tax, it means cutting down on other things to make ends meet (as in VOTN's example). If you earn £200k per year and have to pay an extra £10k, you won't be happy but it's? money that would have gone into the stock market or other investments rather than discretionary spending.

This is generally correct, although rather simplified. My point was that for everyone to pay an extra 5% we would end up in an over-taxed situation.

Taxes can certainly be increased but it has to be done in a manner that will have the least negative effect on the economy and one way of doing this is to carefully tax those that can afford it. It has to be done carefully as if not it will drive people to just move their money and maybe even themselves outside of the UK tax juristiction, it could affect pension saving and as such the investment capabilities of these funds, some of which play an important role in investing in genuine growth, not just the paper growth of the stock market. And of course any increas in the tax on the wealthy could reduce their ability and/or willingness to invest in areas that would otherwise create growth.

It's a complicated issue but not impossible and should be tackled in order to raise the funds that the country needs to be run properly.

 
Are we talking about adding 5% to every bracket? Even the allowance for income tax? Or is this just about the basic and higher rates?

I paid 25% basic rate tax when I first started work, so I actually can't see the problem. I would suggest a gradual increase, rather than all at once, but it's been done before, so why not? It wouldn't be the £1250, as quoted.

It would be great if the proceeds could be ring-fenced, outside any future Government interference. If that could somehow be worked out, I think more would be in favour.

And if anyone thinks that taxing a few big corporations will solve all the issues, then they don't understand the economics of it.
 
HeathfieldRoad1874 - 31/5/2017 12:45



I paid 25% basic rate tax when I first started work, so I actually can't see the problem. I would suggest a gradual increase, rather than all at once, but it's been done before, so why not? It wouldn't be the £1250, as quoted.

Hence my comment about increasing taxes in a way that will have the least negative impact, throw a 5% rise at the polpulation all in one go and it will have a drastic effect on their spending habits but if you allow time to adjust and also allow time for wage increases (small that they might be in today's economy) to offset the tax increase and it will not have the same negative effect. Not least the psycological effect of the increase will be minimised and that is half the battle right there.

 
Agreed Ian. Whilst we are at it, we can do away with NI contributions, and amalgamate these into the Income Tax system. Make the system so simple people have no trouble working out what they owe.
 
I've voted yes IF we had more accountability (I don't trust the way the money is misused) AND IF we were all in this together.

So no more tax fraud without prison, no more big corps (and big stars who then tell us on tv to give our hard earned money to their charities and get big slaps on their backs for being such good people) didn't dodge or get around the rules. Tax should be 'in the spirit' or 'in the intent' so that all the schemes to write off tax are illegal.

Then, sure. We would all be in this together and agree with Juan, how can we trust a pm whose husband advises others how not to be all in this together?

But in principle, I'd love a better, cleaner country and I'd be more than happy to pay for this.. in fact in paying extra for such services.
 
The average wage is around £27k so actually 5% tax is an extra £800 p.a. once the personal allowance of £11,500 is taken into account.

I agree with earlier comments a 5% leap in one go would be a bit severe. I also think a significant rise in basic rate would not be fair for lower earners, as it would squeeze the budgets of people who are "just about managing". For higher and additional rate payers who are relatively well off would be more able to afford an extra 5% tax.

They also need to scrap higher rate tax relief for pensions and reduce the annual CGT exemption from £11,300 as these reliefs serve no benefit to the wider economy.

Corporation tax should remain low as it is now to help smaller businesses and to ensure we are attractive for global investment and companies to set up operations and employ people in the uk
 
HeathfieldRoad1874 - 31/5/2017 13:49

Agreed Ian. Whilst we are at it, we can do away with NI contributions, and amalgamate these into the Income Tax system. Make the system so simple people have no trouble working out what they owe.

And make it cheaper to administrate. It would also then remmove the upper limit on NI contributions which would then effectively be a simple and unobstrusive way to increase the tax on the better paid, as many are calling for, all without adding to the administrative burden. It beggars belief that NI is still an issue really.

 
david-avfc - 31/5/2017 14:23

The average wage is around £27k so actually 5% tax is an extra £800 p.a. once the personal allowance of £11,500 is taken into account.

I agree with earlier comments a 5% leap in one go would be a bit severe. I also think a significant rise in basic rate would not be fair for lower earners, as it would squeeze the budgets of people who are "just about managing". For higher and additional rate payers who are relatively well off would be more able to afford an extra 5% tax.

They also need to scrap higher rate tax relief for pensions and reduce the annual CGT exemption from £11,300 as these reliefs serve no benefit to the wider economy.

Corporation tax should remain low as it is now to help smaller businesses and to ensure we are attractive for global investment and companies to set up operations and employ people in the uk

Some interesting ideas there David
 
The CGT exemption does encourage investors, who are needed to fund progress, so I would be reluctant to remove this. Every action has a reaction.