20211125 ECL Match Thread - NS Mura vs Tottenham Hotspur | Page 9 | Vital Football

20211125 ECL Match Thread - NS Mura vs Tottenham Hotspur

Result?

  • Draw

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  • Total voters
    6
  • Poll closed .

total spurs

Vital 1st Team Regular
That's my understanding but he is convinced that even tho our two games aggregate at 3-3 because they scored against us, they have the head to head advantage. Guess we shall see!
Having looked at the rules it seems that the away goal rule doesn't count anymore so we have to win and if we do hope that Vitesse don't win by more than two goals than us ...can't even believe it's come down to this tho!
 
Conte picked an unfamiliar team of non first choice players. 8 or 9 of them are not PL starters. Gollini, Doherty, Sanchez, Rodon Sessegnon, Dele, Ndombele and ,Gil. Tanganga is a borderline choice.
Sanchez was played out of position. Sessegnon was started after just one brief sub appearance, Gil is not in tune with the team yet. Conte stuck with 3 at the back when we needed a more creative attack.
Mura are a settled team unit who know each other.
Conte made too many changes and we've seen what happens to us countless times when that happens.
This game was the ONLY opportunity for Conte to assess some more of the squad. Three weeks and he's trying to identify his first 11. Mura (no disrespect) ffs, I'd expect Norwich to wipe the floor with them. I can't and won't blame Conte as he has little time and opps to evaluate the squad in a competitive environment. Mura, bottom of the group and our spoilt brats couldn't string a few passes together. Dele's performance stunk, ND didn't want to be there, Sanchez was back to his clumsy self.

I fully agree that every time Nuno or Mou put this 2nd batch out they fkd up. Conte needed to see it for himself under his instructions. They failed. Time to make a long list to be pinned by the exit door.

As a side note, the predictions on the game result tells you how confident the Vital fans were of the outcome under Conte's guidance. Seems the arrogant attitude transferred to the players who've let another manager and few travelling fans down. Enough is enough.
 
LOL...well NO SHIT!

I do find it funny though.

I will say it for the hundredth time...our problem is the players...not the manager. Until we fully embrace a painful rebuild...we will not win shit and we are relegation fodder.

Just stop playing some of these asshats that have done nothing for us and start getting in some new blood.
Our problem is Levy/ENIC
 

Gary Onedaysoon

*Prediction Champion 20/21*
That's my understanding but he is convinced that even tho our two games aggregate at 3-3 because they scored against us, they have the head to head advantage. Guess we shall see!
I think your mate is right.

My understanding of the rules are, in the event of teams tying on points, the tiebreak criteria is as follows:

1. Higher number of points obtained between the teams
2. Superior goal difference between the teams
3. Highest number of goals scored in group matches
4. Highest number of goals scored away from home in group matches

The criteria only applies to matches between the tied teams:

So, if we're tied after the final round of matches, then

On point 1 we'll be the same (3 point for both teams)
On point 2 we'll still be the same (a goal difference of 0 for both teams)
On point 3 we'll still be the same (3 goals each)
On point 4 Vitesse edge it (2 goals Vitesse, 0 goals Spurs)
 
Conte's post match interview seemed to have an underlying 'What Have I Done' theme about it. He's a very self motivated guy who has inherited a PL 'first eleven', with some very good players, probably good enough to finish top six, but completely devoid of midfield creativity, no real squad depth, and a lot of bad players on the books. It should be the perfect challenge for a top manager to build and improve on that platform, but will Conte have the personality and motivation to be in it for the long haul, because that is what is going to be needed.
 

Gary Onedaysoon

*Prediction Champion 20/21*
I think your mate is right.

My understanding of the rules are, in the event of teams tying on points, the tiebreak criteria is as follows:

1. Higher number of points obtained between the teams
2. Superior goal difference between the teams
3. Highest number of goals scored in group matches
4. Highest number of goals scored away from home in group matches

The criteria only applies to matches between the tied teams:

So, if we're tied after the final round of matches, then

On point 1 we'll be the same (3 point for both teams)
On point 2 we'll still be the same (a goal difference of 0 for both teams)
On point 3 we'll still be the same (3 goals each)
On point 4 Vitesse edge it (2 goals Vitesse, 0 goals Spurs)
For this season's Conference League it looks like point 4 above no longer applies.

This is Uefa's tiebreak rule:

Article 16 Equality of points – group stage

16.01
If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of the group matches, the following criteria are applied in the order given to determine their rankings:
  1. higher number of points obtained in the group matches played among the teams in question;
  2. superior goal difference from the group matches played among the teams in question;
  3. higher number of goals scored in the group matches played among the teams in question;
  4. if, after having applied criteria a) to c), teams still have an equal ranking, criteria a) to c) are reapplied exclusively to the matches between the remaining teams to determine their final rankings. If this procedure does not lead to a decision, criteria e) to k) apply in the order given to the two or more teams still equal;
  5. superior goal difference in all group matches;
  6. higher number of goals scored in all group matches;
  7. higher number of away goals scored in all group matches;
  8. higher number of wins in all group matches;
  9. higher number of away wins in all group matches;
  10. lower disciplinary points total based only on yellow and red cards received by players and team officials in all group matches (red card = 3 points, yellow card = 1 point, expulsion for two yellow cards in one match = 3 points);
  11. higher club coefficient (see Annex D).
So if Spurs and Vitesse win their last matches we'd need to maintain our superior goal difference to qualify in second.
 

Gary Onedaysoon

*Prediction Champion 20/21*
So, we'll need to play our best team to beat Rennes in the final match which in itself still doesn't guarantee qualification. And that's for the dubious privilege of playing 2 extra matches against the 3rd placed Europa League team in February and March.

No doubt we'll also beat West Ham in the Carabao Cup in December (playing our strongest team) and we'll end up with a two-legged semi final, probably against Arsenal or Chelsea, in January after a gruelling Christmas schedule.

In the last round of predictions on our finishing place in the PL I said 7th. That wasn't based on our ability but on the demands of competing on all four competitions which we invariably do. We just haven't got the squad depth to do it.
 
So, we'll need to play our best team to beat Rennes in the final match which in itself still doesn't guarantee qualification. And that's for the dubious privilege of playing 2 extra matches against the 3rd placed Europa League team in February and March.

No doubt we'll also beat West Ham in the Carabao Cup in December (playing our strongest team) and we'll end up with a two-legged semi final, probably against Arsenal or Chelsea, in January after a gruelling Christmas schedule.

In the last round of predictions on our finishing place in the PL I said 7th. That wasn't based on our ability but on the demands of competing on all four competitions which we invariably do. We just haven't got the squad depth to do it.
The sooner we are out of a competition that was embarrassing to be in in the first place, the better. It has however served a purpose, by re-enforcing the fact that we have probably at least ten players who are simply not good enough to play at a level that the Club will want to aspire to.
 

Walthamstow wanderer

Vital Football Hero
Staff member
Reading what Conte said , I couldn’t be arsed to keep watching last night , and wait for him to come on and hear what he had to say , if Levy doesn’t act in January , then we are deep trouble .
Then we will know exactly where the commitment is .
Hopefully ,(there’s that word again , ) Conte has had a backing bank roll promise and things will happen , otherwise there would have been no point in sacking Nuno .

Or we could have hired Neil Warnock .
 
Unrtil we can move the dross please play the players who put in a shift albeit some may long term be in his plans. Leave out the dross and fakers and 'don't give a dammers'

So Deli Docherty Ndombele consistently sell us short and never do anything of note on the pitch are prime examples of who I mean...you can add your others if you wish

If we were not so bereft of strikers ....some of our top players (supposedly) would be candidates as well,,,you all know who I mean
 
Conte needed to feed in the fringe players as subs if he wanted to assess the squad not start them. He's got to play the first 11 now to have a chance of staying in. I'm not suggesting he should have started the first 11, just not 9 fringe players. Sessegnon was bound to be rusty, Gil is out of his depth, the back 3 were unfamiliar with each other.
It's quite disrespectful to Mura to field a team like he did and got what he deserved.
It's a competition not an experimentation exercise.
 

Gary Onedaysoon

*Prediction Champion 20/21*
Conte needed to feed in the fringe players as subs if he wanted to assess the squad not start them. He's got to play the first 11 now to have a chance of staying in. I'm not suggesting he should have started the first 11, just not 9 fringe players. Sessegnon was bound to be rusty, Gil is out of his depth, the back 3 were unfamiliar with each other.
It's quite disrespectful to Mura to field a team like he did and got what he deserved.
It's a competition not an experimentation exercise.
I don't think Conte was being disrespectful to Mura at all. Any more than Nuno, Jose, Poch and the all the others before them.

We have a very tough match away to Burnley on Sunday, a team who have had all week to prepare. To win we'll need our strongest team.

Last night's team selection was a reflection of trying to participate in multiple competitions. Our squad isn't good enough. And like we do every season we end up bringing on our first team players anyway. So it defeats the object of trying to 'rest' them in the first place. To be fair to Conte last night, he couldn't have anticipated having a player sent off after half an hour albeit we were already losing at that point.

If we are going to take competitions like this seriously then it would have been better to go all in i.e. play the strongest available team from the off, get the group wrapped up in four games and give the whole squad two weeks off.

Personally I would rather Conte threw everything at getting the club as high up the table as possible and keep building from there. Get the club in or around the Champions League places by adding quality to the squad and let the cups follow.
 
We don't have the 1st 11 or squad to compete on all fronts.

It was a poor performance but was not surprising to me. We all know Sanchez needs a run of games to get going.

Conte knows this squad is very average and has just said so in the interview. Good I'm sick to death of hearing how good this squad is.

It's got 3 managers sacked in 2 years. How much more evidence do we need.

Strip the lot out.
 
This game was the ONLY opportunity for Conte to assess some more of the squad. Three weeks and he's trying to identify his first 11. Mura (no disrespect) ffs, I'd expect Norwich to wipe the floor with them. I can't and won't blame Conte as he has little time and opps to evaluate the squad in a competitive environment. Mura, bottom of the group and our spoilt brats couldn't string a few passes together. Dele's performance stunk, ND didn't want to be there, Sanchez was back to his clumsy self.

I fully agree that every time Nuno or Mou put this 2nd batch out they fkd up. Conte needed to see it for himself under his instructions. They failed. Time to make a long list to be pinned by the exit door.

As a side note, the predictions on the game result tells you how confident the Vital fans were of the outcome under Conte's guidance. Seems the arrogant attitude transferred to the players who've let another manager and few travelling fans down. Enough is enough.
Excellent riposte to continued excuses.
 
Conte needed to feed in the fringe players as subs if he wanted to assess the squad not start them. He's got to play the first 11 now to have a chance of staying in. I'm not suggesting he should have started the first 11, just not 9 fringe players. Sessegnon was bound to be rusty, Gil is out of his depth, the back 3 were unfamiliar with each other.
It's quite disrespectful to Mura to field a team like he did and got what he deserved.
It's a competition not an experimentation exercise.
Good morning Nick, I don’t think last nights team was in any way, shape if form a disrespect to Mura.

Conte has worked the players hard over the past two weeks. The likes of Gollini, Tanganga, Sessegnon, Ndombele, Dele we’re all present at the training ground durning the international break.

He needed to use this game to access the players that he hasn’t given an opportunity to as of yet. Likewise, I’m sure that he would have felt the need to ensure the whole squad feels part of what he’s trying to achieve at Spurs hence deserving of meaningful game time. Players on the periphery would have seriously questioned why they are working so hard in training they can’t even get a game against Mura.

I understand completely why Conte went with the side that he did.

Like I said in another post last night, I don’t think there’ll be much rotation between now and January. Some of those players last night won’t see much game time between now and then.
 

meee93

Vital Champions League
Regardless of if you do or don't think our players last night have enough footballing quality for premier league football, they are certainly all good enough to beat the 5th best team in Slovenia, a mid table team in fact as the league only has 10 teams. Being beaten by them in that matter is utterly shameful and each of them need to have a long hard think about if they have the mentality to be a professional footballer. You won't get anywhere in life if you don't have pride in your application.

I can't help but feel that this is the latest result of not holding people accountable and not enforcing standards at this club. Far too many players have been allowed to get away with far too many sub standard performances for far too long.

Utterly pathetic.
 
We don't have the 1st 11 or squad to compete on all fronts.

It was a poor performance but was not surprising to me. We all know Sanchez needs a run of games to get going.

Conte knows this squad is very average and has just said so in the interview. Good I'm sick to death of hearing how good this squad is.

It's got 3 managers sacked in 2 years. How much more evidence do we need.

Strip the lot out.
Good morning RD, you are spot on sir.

I was thinking this morning about who I think will be here at the start of next season for what will truly be the time we can fairly judge Conte on.

GK: Lloris?
LCB: Davies
RCB: Romero, Tanganga
CB: Dier
LWB: Reguilon, Sessegnon
RWB: Royal
CM: Skipp, Hojbjerg, Sarr, Winks (possibly)
AM: Moura
ST: Son

I’m not convinced by Gollini, I don’t think we’ll take up the option to sign him.

Sanchez has no future under Conte, he simple isn’t good enough on the ball to play in a back 3 that likes there wide defenders to overlap. Tbf, Tanganga will have to develop this part of his game if he too is to have a future under Conte.

Rodon, Conte just doesn’t seem to fancy. I see him getting sold or loaned out.

Doherty is up there with the worst players we’ve ever signed. He’s surely a goner.

Ndombele and Dele aren’t going to make the cut under Conte. Dele has regressed so much it’s shocking. Like you said in another post, not enough thought went into the Ndombele signing, he’s never going to be a consistent performer.

Lo Celso there is probably still hope for IF he can get fit, stay fit and start producing the goods on a regular basis.

Bergwijn too probably isn’t here at the start of the 22/23 season.

I fear a little for Bryan Gil too, his game is suited to a possession based, passing team. He looks very good when playing for Spain. Conte plays the game very differently and I’m not entirely convinced that he fits in. Wouldn’t surprise me if he’s loaned out at some point.

Kane, well who knows. No surprise if he’s still with us or if he’s sold to City, possibly Utd if they get MP in.

That’s a base of 13/14/15 players. That leaves a shit load of signings needed in the next two windows to be reasonably competitive.

Big ask, I know.
 
I am thankful i was able to miss this one. Sounds like a complete clusterfcuk.

If this is what it takes for Conte to see who is going to let him down when he needs them then its a positive result for me. The list of players he wants out of the door must be growing by the hour.

Its time to get rid of sentiment and past glories (If you can call anything any of our players have achieved at spurs glory) and get rid.

Conte was almost speechless in how shite some of our players are.