12th July mindless violence in Belfast...again.

Galvin's Shinpads

Vital Football Legend
Oh, how all Orangemen should be so proud. When they weren't aloud to parade down the Ardoyne, they went nuts. From drunk nutters, to sash-wearing old men, to 'band' members, they all had a go at the Police and of course it wouldn't do without the burning of a flag.

Below is some footage of their usual high-brow antics...

[youtube=aUEDaI6WBRc&feature=youtu.be]
 
It's high time they got rid of the parades commission and it's high time that the nationalists respected the fact that the 'other side' have traditions and history they want to keep too..

Now if they'd only do that, they'd all get along famously...

 
Galvin's Shinpads - 13/7/2013 20:21

LOL.

I know, I thought your thread was laughable too..

The shame of course is that it isn't a laughing matter, but until the two communities sit down together and agree this stuff together, they'll forever be at each others throats - parade and the nationalists cause all the violent reaction (as well as the occasional attempted pipe bomb, even now).

NI is still a divided community, despite the peace 'process'.. arguably the peace 'dividend' for the working class loyalists, has in their minds been less forthcoming than it has for the Nationalists...

But, let's laugh about it, 'cos that will work won't it?
 
You thought the THREAD was LAUGHABLE???

Pointless conversing with you on this matter. I hold no hope that you know much about the North of Ireland.

The fact is, the bunch of "Loyalists" continue to wreak havoc, over their annual embarrassment to society.

The orange order use the "tradition" tilt, as an excuse to go ballistic every year. Perhaps if they moved into the new world, along with the vast majority of the island, they would get somewhere.

I wonder how much longer it will take for the representative loon, Ian Paisley, to come out and denounce the violence that was observed over the past weekend.
That would be too much to expect. That would be called leadership.
 
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/police-injured-during-third-night-of-violence-in-belfast-1.1463439

"Petrol bombs, bricks, bottles, ceremonial swords, golf balls and fireworks"... tramps.

3rd night of violence. The Union flag is being well sullied.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/third-night-of-violence-in-belfast-600484.html
 
Here's a view from Northern Ireland. Follow the link and you'll get many other links embedded in the article.

http://sluggerotoole.com/2013/07/15/grieving-for-a-lost-supremacism/

Grieving for a Lost Supremacism
Chris Donnelly,
Mon 15 July 2013, 11:14am

The loyalists who paraded past Ardoyne on the morning of the 12th July carried a banner stating ‘End hatred of Orange culture.’ The banner was brought to the interface at Twaddell Avenue and placed on a wall during protests in the days after the Twelfth.

It is a gross error of judgement for loyalists to introduce the words ‘hatred’ and ‘culture’ into the discussion around loyalism’s ‘festive’ Twelfth period.

Here is what an online thesaurus throws up when the word ‘hate’ is inputted: abhor, detest, loathe, dislike, despise.

Let’s see if we can find illustrations of ‘hate’ in the conduct of loyalists over the Twelfth period.

Let us begin with the festive 11th Night bonfire tradition. Many of these have been funded by local government councils for a number of years now, as Alan’s helpful thread has outlined.

The conduct of loyalists at these gatherings gives a firm indication as to the mindset of many within their community at this time.

Earlier in the week, news broke of a statue of the Virgin Mother having been placed on a bonfire at Lanark Way at the west Belfast peaceline. The public outcry led to the statue being removed and given to Fr Gary Donegan of Holy Cross Monastery, though not before it had been defaced.

The Irish News reported that an effigy of the Pope was burnt in Sandy Row whilst the National Flags of Poland, Palestine and the Vatican were burned at Cluan Place.

The Polish community has come under attack from loyalists before, including this sectarian attack nearby to where the bonfire was sited, for which a man was jailed less than a month ago.

Loyalists have ‘previous’ when it comes to taking exception to other outsiders as well as their catholic, nationalist neighbours.

The Pride of the Raven band that stopped outside St Patrick’s Church to play The Sash (a hymn, according to a tweet over the weekend by former Flag Protestor now PUP rising starlet, Johnnie Harvey) was involved a number of years ago with orchestrating a parade along Donegall Pass in Belfast that was widely interpreted as a thinly veiled attempt to intimidate the Chinese community in the city.

And, of course, the band that stood outside St Patrick’s and played The Famine Song last 12th July returned to the parade this year, with a number of bands reported in the Irish News as striking up the song mocking the death of one million Irish people just as they’d cleared the church on Donegall Street. And wasn’t it nice to see the loyalist, William Bell, who pleaded guilty to common assault during last year’s parade in a subsequent court appearance, when the Shankill Road YCV band were filmed playing The Famine Song outside St Patrick’s, invited to participate in the parade and walking past the church again this year.

What was that about hatred?

Replica shirts of football teams- Celtic, Cliftonville and the Republic of Ireland- associated with the neighbouring catholic, nationalist community were placed on many bonfires to be burned.

The Irish National flag in many formations and of a wide variety of sizes, was burned by the hundred across loyalist parts of the north (though it was noted that, on a number of bonfires, citizens of the Ivory Coast would have immediately spotted their flag being prepared for burning.)

An effigy of Fr Matt Wallace, a Belfast priest who committed suicide last month, was purportedly also placed on a bonfire in Newtownabbey. This incident recalls a previous loyalist cultural bonfire in 2005, which mocked the suicide deaths of a number of catholic teenage boys in Ardoyne. Then, the effigy signs read ‘Up the Ardoyne bungee jumpers.’

It also recalls the mocking of the sectarian murder of Michael McIlveen from a loyalist bonfire , who died after being savagely beaten by loyalists in Ballymena.

And, not to be outdone, effigies of nationalist politicians, amongst them the SDLP’s John Dallat, were also burnt from bonfires, including a death threat from the Garvagh bonfire.

Of course, it should be noted that loyalists reserve the right to lay claim to entire communities and districts regardless of demographic composition nor the residential or commercial nature of the areas through the erection of flags, arches, bunting and painted kerbstones to claim the area as a dog might when urinating on a lamp post (this is not exclusive to unionism, though exists on a much, much smaller scale when it comes to republicans and as a practice lacks the type of political cover loyalists receive from unionist politicians for engaging in such acts.)

The proliferation and siting of flags is of itself part of loyalism’s strategy of aggressively claiming ownership and seeking to goad ‘the other.’ Hence the Ballyclare riots of July 2011 and subsequent expansion of the campaign in 2012 to harass catholics where they gather (ie at church) in majority protestant east Antrim by increasing the number of churches where flags were flown. The mentality driving this conduct was best outlined by Antrim unionist councillor, Mel Lucas, in 2009. Rejecting a call for him to condemn those who erected loyalist flags outside a catholic church in Antrim town, Lucas claimed, “It’s all British, even the bits outside the chapel.”

Objecting to this practice can be a very dangerous exercise. Only days ago, a woman was forced to flee the Fountain estate in Derry after her home was attacked- and that of a neighbour- following words she’d exchanged with loyalists seeking to erect a flag outside her house.

And then there’s The Twelfth itself.

500+ parades on the Twelfth is proof positive that there is no erosion of the British unionist culture in the north of Ireland. The cultural war cry raised by Mervyn Gibson and Edwin Stevenson would be laughable were the consequences not so serious- a cultural war which includes the Orange Order marching without opposition through the centre of the largest majority nationalist city in the north of Ireland, Derry; a cultural war that has seen republicans support funding for the British Queen’s Jubilee celebrations; and, as I have comprehensively illustrated recently, unionism’s efforts at aggressively asserting its political/ cultural identity have continued apace at council level in the past six weeks alone without nationalists feeling the need to launch their own equivalent of a flag protest.

There are, of course, many Orangemen and their followers who seek simply to enjoy their day in the sun without malice entering their mind. But the sheer weight of evidence makes it impossible to reach any logical conclusion other than that the 11th Night and Twelfth commemorations are used by a large section of loyalism to express their hatred, loathing and abhorrence of their catholic, nationalist neighbours.

What is it about?

Phil MacGiollabhain has put it well: they are grieving for a lost sense of supremacism, kicking out at their neighbours in the process.

And Phil has some harsh words for the Orange Order and their supporters in political unionism in the aftermath of this year’s Twelfth commemorations.

“What we have witnessed this week end in Belfast is grieving for a lost status. The British unionist community has a place on this island, but not one based upon privilege or any imagined supremacy.

Moreover they no longer can call upon the local forces of law and order to do their bidding or to look the other way as they gather on street corners to put the taigs in their place.

Those rioters are not better than their nationalist neighbours.

They are not ‘The People’; they are just people, just like the rest of us.

If they finally get that then they might earn my respect.”
 
And another view of the twelfth from Slugger:

Time for the Orange and the DUP to take a one way bet on the future?
Mick Fealty,
Mon 15 July 2013, 6:50pm
12

I’m not sure I agree that Chris’s account of this Twelfth is quite as comprehensive as John implies, but it does highlight why defending the loyal orders right to march on the public highway might be such a hard sell. It’s nine years since Gerry Kelly had his arm broken defending a British soldier from a republican mob in Ardoyne.

The tensions in north Belfast each summer are palpable. And it is hardly surprising. The area suffers a heady mix of sectarian apartheid, social deprivation, and sheer mutual hate. In the distribution of civilian deaths in the troubles, north Belfast comes second only to the killing grounds of west Belfast.

There were 402 murders of civilians in north Belfast altogether, many of them concentrated in the very areas where this parading dispute has been at it hottest. That’s not far off a quarter of all civilians killed in the whole conflict.

The bitterness goes deep, and in some cases continues to be driven by the residual animus of ex prisoners who continue to exert huge influence on both sides of the dispute.

Yet in 2007 and 2008, I cannot find any record of trouble on this particular interface. It does however, kick off again largely but not solely by youth in 2009. This was also the year that GARC (Greater Ardoyne Residents Association), an alternative to CARA (Crumlin Ardoyne Residents Association). In the words of Martin Og Meehan:

What many inside and outside Ardoyne did not understand was that CARA only spoke for those residents who lived on/close to the march route. It did not represent the remainder of local people who also wanted to see an end to these marches.

GARC was from the beginning looking to make a much larger play:

In order to properly represent those opinions, GARC was formed and held a successful survey of every family in the Greater Ardoyne area. Results of the above survey confirmed that the vast majority of local people wanted an end to unwelcome parades. GARC published its findings and publicly announced its intention to oppose sectarian marches in future.

On the other side, the Orange Order in north Belfast greeted the news of last week’s ruling that the Orange would not be allowed to return up the Crumlin past the Ardoyne shops with the strategically inept alternative – not of using Ballysillan Park for a peaceful and secure demonstration against the ruling – but choosing a full confrontation with a heavily augmented police force.

The DUP’s problem is that it backed the Orange without necessarily knowing what it had been planning. Convinced that the Orange had booked Ballysillan Park in which to hold a protest, they booked Stormont for tomorrow’s emergency debate. A debate for which on the face of it they now have precious few convincing lines to use in their own defence.

In the meantime, any future compromise over the Ardoyne is hard to foresee. GARC were quick to get leaflets round the doors of greater Ardoyne to claim a famous victory. It was, after all, the outcome they’d been looking for right from the start.

But in gaining so soon what they set out to achieve, the Parades Commission may have also shot their political fox. Talk of scaling it up by taking their Ban the Orange campaign to other parts ignores the dynamic that is generally in train which is peaceful settlement by local agreement.

Galling as it may be for some to see the raw violence over the last four years so completely rewarded, it is not a path the Orange Order can or should take themselves. As Tom Kelly notes in today’s Irish News:

The Orange Order could do well to look to their country brethren in terms of improving their image – certain the Belfast Orange is their weakest link. Ulster Unionist Danny Kennedy thanked me for going along to the Twelfth – it was a welcome message but if I ever go again, it will be to Ballinamallard.

The underlying problem though is Belfast’s unique and intense geography of hate. Bands fire up when passing Catholic areas, and later justify it on the basis that ‘they hate us’. They nearly always do. And the recharged communal hatred continues to feed off itself.

As one republican friend put it, earlier today, the one way to put the Parades Commission out of business, is for the Orange to do the business directly with residents for themselves, and close the trouble down early.

As the DUP tomorrow, they have still have a valuable base in the loyalist areas of north Belfast. Trying to do fragile deals of faith with ex prisoners who can no longer stand them is not working.

Perhaps it is time for a one way bet on the future. One with huge risk, yes. But one they (and the Orange) can surely no longer afford not to take?

As for Sinn Fein, they’ve been fortunate in their opponents once again…
 
Galvin's Shinpads - 15/7/2013 16:12
The orange order use the "tradition" tilt, as an excuse to go ballistic every year. Perhaps if they moved into the new world, along with the vast majority of the island, they would get somewhere.

As far as I was aware Northern Ireland was British. Loyalists are part of the modern world, it's the opposition that isn't.
 
Two countries sharing an island. Get with the program.

And just to be pedantic, Northern Ireland WAS Irish. It's NOW under English rule.

Tell me the cultural significance behind the Orange parades. Find the part that isn't meant to offend the native culture!

"Part of the modern world"? LOL. Still living in the 1800s eh!
 
I said Northern Island, which is one of the two countries on the island. I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of the cultural significance of different parades. You mentioned new world, I only corrected you.
 
Rrrrrright...

This little merry-go-round is as pointless as the 12th of July parades.


Hark, more "new world" footage.
The heartbeat of sense.
Exhuming culture...

[youtube=aUEDaI6WBRc&list=UU33ojB2rFfV9zAzv2_6qPtQ]
 
Galvin's Shinpads - 15/7/2013 21:37

Rrrrrright...

This little merry-go-round is as pointless as the 12th of July parades.

It's only pointless because you are wrong and too stupid to acknowledge it.

You said something, it was wrong, I corrected it. That was meant to be the end.
 
ahx00 - 15/7/2013 21:39

Galvin's Shinpads - 15/7/2013 21:37

Rrrrrright...

This little merry-go-round is as pointless as the 12th of July parades.

It's only pointless because you are wrong and too stupid to acknowledge it.

You said something, it was wrong, I corrected it. That was meant to be the end.

Wrong? Stupid? You are a piece of work aren't you.

This thread was always going to smoke-out people like you.

Enjoy the Union Flag being shat on by numbskulls.
 
Galvin's Shinpads - 15/7/2013 21:41

Wrong? Stupid? You are a piece of work aren't you.

This thread was always going to smoke-out people like you.

Enjoy the Union Flag being shat on by numbskulls.

I've said nothing pro or anti union. All I said was Northern Ireland is British. Is that wrong?

Enjoy being hilariously incapable of understanding simple points.
 
Man you are ridiculous. I don't recall saying it was anything other. You lept on a mouse, thinking it was a prize tiger! Who's being silly in all of this, i wonder.

They say civility is the elusive glue of social cohesion. I see none in those pieces of footage and I don't get a sense of it from any of your posts.
A fantastic coincidence really.

 
Yes, it is certainly a fantastic coincidence. But then most of what you post in these political threads of yours is fantastic.