The bye elections (n/g)

[Jerryattrick]

What is clear from these By election is their is a will among those who support the Labour and the Liberal Democrats now to see to it that this government must be defeated. Together we have more than enough support to do it .That I believe is a lesson we can take away from the vote in Tiverton and Honiton.
The Tories aren't the majority of this country. The majority of the Tory members voted for Boris Johnson as their leader knowing he was a liar .It is rare for MPs to be as outspoken as they are about another MPs basic principles. Boris is not fit for office.
Boris and other United enough people to see that Brexit was won .

It is time for the anti Tory alliance to see that this shower is drummed out of office at the earliest opportunity. The only way to guarantee that happening is to fight them together.Devon has shown that this can be done even in the most unlikely places.

Basically you are saying (vote - anyone but boris).

might be better if the other partys had:

a) not gone against the democratic vote.
b) had some actual distinct policies and direction instead of just being 'tory lite'

 

[Tarian]

What is clear from these By election is their is a will among those who support the Labour and the Liberal Democrats now to see to it that this government must be defeated. Together we have more than enough support to do it .That I believe is a lesson we can take away from the vote in Tiverton and Honiton.

Well at least you are open about being anti-Conservative.
What are you "for" ?

The Tories aren't the majority of this country.

Perhaps not.
The current lot certainly don't represent me and a lot of people I know (or have canvassed).
But it is even clearer that there is not a majority for a collectivist, authoritarian government.
Sure, plenty of people want the government to provide a safety-net....
...but apart from that they want to be allowed to get on with their lives without being constantly lectured at.

The majority of the Tory members voted for Boris Johnson as their leader knowing he was a liar .It is rare for MPs to be as outspoken as they are about another MPs basic principles. Boris is not fit for office.

These unspecified "liar" accusations are getting tedious.
Apart from some dissembling decades ago as a journalist, what recently has Johnson "lied" about ?

Not always telling the whole truth may be a fair point.....
.....but that is the default position for most Labour spokesmen.

But back to "lies".
What did Starmer say about his curry and beer in Durham ?

How did Rayner manage to forget that is was she who first mentioned leg-flashing in an interview in February ??

Boris and other united enough people to see that Brexit was won .

This showed that the narratives pushed by the legacy broadcasters and political establishment is not as widely shared as they claim.

It is time for the anti Tory alliance to see that this shower is drummed out of office at the earliest opportunity. The only way to guarantee that happening is to fight them together. Devon has shown that this can be done even in the most unlikely places.

This includes one theme that I have some sympathy with....
...but it highlights the flaws in our voting system.
Many people have to:
i) vote dishonestly (not for their preferred candidate)
ii) second-guess how others might vote (guess who the likely challenger is).

A curiousity about Tiverton and Honiton is that recently, Labour have been mostly a strong second - so how did anti-Cons know to vote LD ?

Labour collapsed from 15,670 (2017) to 1,560 (2022).
Presumably Labour made zero effort in T & H while concentrating on Wakefield.

The French system of 2-round voting seems increasingly appealing.

 

[Tarian]

It might be better if the other partys had:

a) not gone against the democratic vote.'

Agreed.

b) had some actual distinct policies and direction instead of just being 'tory lite'

"Tory Lite" ? Interesting viewpoint.
Many Conservative supporters (and sympathisers) see the current Govt. as "Labour-lite".
- Throwing £ billions of taxpayer's money at problems - something Labour wants even more of

- Proposing legislation that supports censorship or restricts free-speech. Labour established "hate crime" allowing mind-reading as "evidence" - and think the current proposals don't go far enough.

- Failing to tackle the root cause of the cost of housing (i.e. mass immigration). Labour spokesman either openly support mass immigration - or refuse to indicate a limit (number)

How was Labour's demand for Lockdown to be earlier and harsher "Tory-lite" ?

The fact that in T & H, over 19,000 previous Cons voters stayed at home seems strong evidence that for many, the current "Conservatives" are not very conservative.

 

[jogills]

Johnson is and always has been an inveterate liar. He has lied more consistently and more often since becoming PM, which is unsurprising. If he doesn't like anything, or is uncomfortable with it he just denies the truth and states the opposite.

https://boris-johnson-lies.com/

 

[Gilles Lingam]

Labour take Wakefield

Interesting to note, that in such troubled times for the Tories, that Labour under Keir Starmer got a lower percentage of the vote (in Wakefield - 47.9%) than they did in 2017 under Jeremy Corbyn where Labour got 49.7%.

 

[chris who]

Basically you are saying (vote - anyone but boris).

might be better if the other partys had:

a) not gone against the democratic vote.
b) had some actual distinct policies and direction instead of just being 'tory lite'

The Liberal Democrats stuck with the principles of the party in the same way as the Brexit party would have done. The Liberal Democrats do have policy documents.

 

[PuB]

Interesting to note, that in such troubled times for the Tories, that Labour under Keir Starmer got a lower percentage of the vote (in Wakefield - 47.9%) than they did in 2017 under Jeremy Corbyn where Labour got 49.7%.

Deeply unremarkable by any measure. No one knows what Labour stand for and many (I’d wager a majority) don’t even know who Sir Keir Starmer is.

 

[chris who]

Agreed.


"Tory Lite" ? Interesting viewpoint.
Many Conservative supporters (and sympathisers) see the current Govt. as "Labour-lite".
- Throwing £ billions of taxpayer's money at problems - something Labour wants even more of

- Proposing legislation that supports censorship or restricts free-speech. Labour established "hate crime" allowing mind-reading as "evidence" - and think the current proposals don't go far enough.

- Failing to tackle the root cause of the cost of housing (i.e. mass immigration). Labour spokesman either openly support mass immigration - or refuse to indicate a limit (number)

How was Labour's demand for Lockdown to be earlier and harsher "Tory-lite" ?

The fact that in T & H, over 19,000 previous Cons voters stayed at home seems strong evidence that for many, the current "Conservatives" are not very conservative.

There was a attempt to change the voting system .It failed. The current system suits the two most powerful parties at present. Not sure it will post independent Scotland if it ever happened. A Labour government might be persuaded to put something to the people. (Even then it is unlikely the party would support it.) In a hung parliament situation it would almost certainly get defeated again because of lack of support from the main parties.It is simply not going to happen in my lifetime.
Talking about migration frankly the current government have nothing to brag about on migration the current situation makes it harder not easier to deal with illegal migration. People coming here and working helped the economy. The present government are simply stopping legal entry to all but the rich .Illegal migration costs massively.Legal workers from the EU paid our taxes and helped our businesses.

 

[Jerryattrick]

Agreed.


"Tory Lite" ? Interesting viewpoint.
Many Conservative supporters (and sympathisers) see the current Govt. as "Labour-lite".
- Throwing £ billions of taxpayer's money at problems - something Labour wants even more of

- Proposing legislation that supports censorship or restricts free-speech. Labour established "hate crime" allowing mind-reading as "evidence" - and think the current proposals don't go far enough.

- Failing to tackle the root cause of the cost of housing (i.e. mass immigration). Labour spokesman either openly support mass immigration - or refuse to indicate a limit (number)

How was Labour's demand for Lockdown to be earlier and harsher "Tory-lite" ?

The fact that in T & H, over 19,000 previous Cons voters stayed at home seems strong evidence that for many, the current "Conservatives" are not very conservative.

not got it have you lol.

the same forces and interests run the country no matter who is in power and whether we are in or out of the EU - after blair pushed to the middle the torys moved to the centre.

two middle of the road partys just doing enough to keep their 'bases' onside (a fine juggling act).

you may believe the rhetoric but in reality the majority of policies that are actually fulfilled and not just tokenism are few.

 

[jokerman]

The Liberal Democrats stuck with the principles of the party in the same way as the Brexit party would have done. The Liberal Democrats do have policy documents.

I admire the LD’s. Never mind ignoring the referendum. They think leaving the EU is nuts and they act accordingly. It might even pay off one day. If I shared their view, they’d have my vote. Forget tactical voting.

 

[LancsGordoRoad]

If Boris is ousted I wouldn't mind a bit as long as his replacement sends the entire inventory of the British Army to kill Russian invaders on Ukrainian territory.

The orcs always lose in the end.

Some would be pleased, but might celebrate in more traditional ways

 

[LancsGordoRoad]

I admire the LD’s. Never mind ignoring the referendum. They think leaving the EU is nuts and they act accordingly. It might even pay off one day. If I shared their view, they’d have my vote. Forget tactical voting.

If the LD`s got in, their first legislation would be to mandate larger and more comfortable top ends for fence posts....

 

[chris who]

If the LD`s got in, their first legislation would be to mandate larger and more comfortable top ends for fence posts....

It is a bit of a ironic that the same people who say that the Liberal Democrats should not have fought against the Brexit vote.Even if they believed it was a bad move for the country. Also believe that the party sit on the fence. In some ways they are often found left of Labour. They are very much for local democracy and largely do well for the areas they represent .Which is why they do well in local elections and by elections as there is little or no national media campaigns that favours the bigger parties.
If any party sat on the fence over Europe it was Labour.
Meanwhile the Tories jumped over it several times and possibly will try to again in future.When it suits them they sit firmly on the fence and did for many years on the European issue for example.
As Dad used to say the Tories will do anything to get elected they will say what you want to hear and be what you want them to be .Until they get into office.

 

[jogills]

I'm not sure what the tories are anymore and I'm pretty sure they don't know themselves. Labour is less divided but similarly characterless so perhaps we might be in for real change. Neither of the main parties can stay true to its roots and gain a majority. Their roots are fairly thin anyway amnd fewer and fewer people relate to their calls to arms, narratives and mythology.

 

[LancsGordoRoad]

Meanwhile the Tories jumped over it several times and possibly will try to again in future.When it suits them they sit firmly on the fence and did for many years on the European issue for example.
As Dad used to say the Tories will do anything to get elected they will say what you want to hear and be what you want them to be .Until they get into office.

Dad was spot on, but not just in relation to the Tories. He simply quoted "How To Be an M.P. - Rule 1" .

 

[chris who]

Dad was spot on, but not just in relation to the Tories. He simply quoted "How To Be an M.P. - Rule 1" .

The majority I would agree.

 

[Buddha]

Only just heard they lost both.

Ha ha ha. Fuck the Tories!

 

[Tarian]

. Fuck the Tories!

Really ?
What would it add to public discourse to say:
"Fuck Labour" ?
(Whatever some of us might think.)

 

[Gills 58]

Should be having another one soon but I guess 'Arse' Pincher will just carry on.

 

[PuB]

Should be having another one soon but I guess 'Arse' Pincher will just carry on.

What’s up with these people? That’s the fifth one this year alone that’s had to resign in some form or another for various levels of sexual impropriety.

Imagine having the gall to write to your boss and apologise about your drunken sleazy behaviour the day after, but not thinking you should resign completely.

The weird tractor porno guy thought it was unfair Mr Pincher didn’t have the whip removed immediately too, so he’s now the moral compass of the Tories. Strange times we live in.