The High Press - What Should We Be Doing? | Page 2 | Vital Football

The High Press - What Should We Be Doing?

Another issue with the playing out from the back obsession: what advantage do we gain by beating the press?

without any pace, we then need three or four quick accurate passes to get down the other end… and the passing isn’t quick, or particularly accurate.

Effectively the opposition have their cake and eat it. Press high and win the ball in the attacking third. Or if their press is beaten, wander back and re-group before we get down the other end.
 
How to beat the high press??
Can I boldly suggest wing backs. You'd be virtually playing a 5 in that position with the 2 wide players being slightly more forward, but would opposing teams really risk 5 attacking man for man tactics to do a high press in that situation. More options and an earlier opportunity to get things wider, quicker
 
nlondonimp said:
Another issue with the playing out from the back obsession: what advantage do we gain by beating the press?

without any pace, we then need three or four quick accurate passes to get down the other end… and the passing isn’t quick, or particularly accurate.

Effectively the opposition have their cake and eat it. Press high and win the ball in the attacking third. Or if their press is beaten, wander back and re-group before we get down the other end.
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If - big if - you have the players to do it, as we did last season, you effectively catch the pressing team committed forward and out of defensive shape.

But the margins are tiny. Three extra touches and three half-second delays on a pass give a well-drilled oppisition time to get back and re-organise.

And that's where we are.
 
NottyImp said:
If - big if - you have the players to do it, as we did last season, you effectively catch the pressing team committed forward and out of defensive shape.

But the margins are tiny. Three extra touches and three half-second delays on a pass give a well-drilled oppisition time to get back and re-organise.

And that's where we are.
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And that's where we are... is right.

...we know what MA wants works....

...but it needs the right personnel.

Just like lumping it up the field needs the right players. Draper and Maguire aren't Matt Rhead.

We were between a rock and a hard place last night.

Let's be honest only about 4 of those on the pitch last night would have been in MA's dream team a week before the window shut.

We have a decent squad but continually having to pick from the middle to bottom end of it is never going to be easy whoever you are.

If we had fit and available...

Griffiths
Poole
Robson
Walsh
Jackson/Montsma
Bishop/McGrandles
Bridcutt
Whittaker
Johnson/Rogers clone
Maguire/Scully
Hopper

Things would look very different... and that's not about playing out from the back.

As you rightly say it's about where we are at the moment...

...but also about where we might be on a couple of months time, if we ever get any luck.
 
What do we need:
Much quicker distribution
More movement
More pace
More variation

Portsmouth’s task was made so much easier than it should have been. Also, their keeper had the nouse to quickly kick long, very long on occasion, to keep us guessing and avoid risk to his full backs.
 
Haven’t read all of this thread but, IMHO, the main problem is the midfield. Last season we had players who could hold and release the ball in defence as a well as taking it off the back four to start a move (mainly Bridcutt). The midfielders were more than capable of moving off the ball into space to collect the ball, turn and use it creatively (including McGrandles) to players higher up, and wide, who could do some damage to the opposition. This season’s midfield, for some reason, can’t do that. We don’t have Bridcutt to collect and bring the ball out, and the midfield is too slow (both thought and feet) and ponderous to get into positions to help the defence play out and create anything positive. The one thing that stood out for me against Pompey (I know it’s only one game, but…) was that there was no wide outlet, either from wingers or the FBs, so the pressure was on Draper or more usually on a midfield which more often than not had no wide outlet to pass to so the ball had to go square or backwards to retain possession. Against well-drilled, fast-pressing opposition we were always on a loser.
 
I think mixing it up from the start would alleviate some of the pressure from teams who use the high press. Griffiths has a very good Schmeichel ~esque throw on him that he may have used twice so far this season. If we dont play it from the back everytime, then eventually there will more time and space to play it out.
 
We struggled against the high press especially at home last season with Johnson Rogers, Anderson, post Xmas.
We definitely need to move quicker, too many of them dwell on the ball too long, they seem frightened to pass it forward at times .
The one time it really worked well on Saturday ended with Sorensen forcing a save from the keeper, unfortunately it's been rare of late.
The players need to be braver and play off the cuff a bit more.
 
berksimps said:
What do we need:
Much quicker distribution
More movement
More pace
More variation

Portsmouth’s task was made so much easier than it should have been. Also, their keeper had the nouse to quickly kick long, very long on occasion, to keep us guessing and avoid risk to his full backs.
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The first requirement to beat the high press, is accurate passing.
All the passes whether it be from Griffiths to CB, or CB to FB, are played behind the player who then has to turn facing his goal so the only escape route pass is backwards. If the ball is played in front of a player he has a chance of passing forward, in field or even going past the high pressing opposition player.
Oh and I would like to see some leadership on the field.
My thoughts only,
 
At the beginning of this season, I noticed that the pitch at LNER appeared much narrower than in the past. Obviously, this was to condense our play and all but remove wingers from the equation (so the Anderson’s, Archibald’s & Elbow’s had no future) I fear for Bramall in the transfer window, the one player I feel has the speed to provide a decent outlet when the high press on us occurs.
 
PerthImp said:
Haven’t read all of this thread but, IMHO, the main problem is the midfield. Last season we had players who could hold and release the ball in defence as a well as taking it off the back four to start a move (mainly Bridcutt). The midfielders were more than capable of moving off the ball into space to collect the ball, turn and use it creatively (including McGrandles) to players higher up, and wide, who could do some damage to the opposition. This season’s midfield, for some reason, can’t do that. We don’t have Bridcutt to collect and bring the ball out, and the midfield is too slow (both thought and feet) and ponderous to get into positions to help the defence play out and create anything positive. The one thing that stood out for me against Pompey (I know it’s only one game, but…) was that there was no wide outlet, either from wingers or the FBs, so the pressure was on Draper or more usually on a midfield which more often than not had no wide outlet to pass to so the ball had to go square or backwards to retain possession. Against well-drilled, fast-pressing opposition we were always on a loser.
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Well put. I’d only add that you need to be confident to play this way (particularly in midfield). As well as being a bit pedestrian, we seem to lack the confidence to want to receive the ball in tight areas and make more risky passes.
 
I think if we can if we move the ball quicker I think it can work better.
Formation change maybe ? Match teams up?
 
Maybe Sanders will get a game, the saviour, at least until he gets a start. Then again we don't really know what he can do with a settled run in the team.
 
Played well he came on against Plymouth and I know it was only the fa cup game but thought he played well in that game too.
 
bonsonshead said:
Maybe Sanders will get a game, the saviour, at least until he gets a start. Then again we don't really know what he can do with a settled run in the team.
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I hope so. Does seem to look forward when he has the ball and has some energy to support the lone striker. Needs a chance
 
Davidimp said:
We struggled against the high press especially at home last season with Johnson Rogers, Anderson, post Xmas.
We definitely need to move quicker, too many of them dwell on the ball too long, they seem frightened to pass it forward at times .
The one time it really worked well on Saturday ended with Sorensen forcing a save from the keeper, unfortunately it's been rare of late.
The players need to be braver and play off the cuff a bit more.
Click to expand...
I particularly like the last line
" The players need to be brave and play off the cuff a bit more " --at present they give the impression that they are not allowed to do that !
 
Mr Chad said:
I particularly like the last line
" The players need to be brave and play off the cuff a bit more " --at present they give the impression that they are not allowed to do that !
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Why thank you kind sir!
I remember Mr Beck was very unhappy when the players did that when he was in charge, remember Bos scoring an absolute screamer to the win the game for us v Mansfield and Beck give him a right bollocking lol!
The players have to be able to express them especially in the final third.
To me it's simple get it wide and get players running into the box to finish, instead our lot just pass around the edge of the area.
 
Its simple ,you change to plan B or plan C , every team just comes here and press knowing its going to passed about between our 4 defenders ,needs to try different formation ,different tactics not just stand there with hands in pockets looking lost ,hes to stubborn and hes no manager as he said maybe we need a change to an actual manager who has more than one way of playing , other managers do there home work on us ,it seems like we dont do it on them
 
I know it’s a radical idea but just maybe MApp and the players actually train to try to beat the press it’s just that certain players aren’t that good technically to do so when under pressure on a match day. Only Montsma and to a lesser degree Jackson ( Walsh when he’s fit) are good enough to play this way in defence. Bridcutt and possibly McGrandles in midfield, Sorensen and Fiorini can’t protect the ball so get out muscled and our fullbacks aren’t confident receiving the ball under pressure.
MApps alternative to plan A is to play plan A better but how better technically can the likes of TJ and Poole get?
 
The 5 at the back mentioned would be an obvious way of relieving the pressure on the centre halves (of course we'd need to have three centre halves fit...) but Eyoma as a wide CB and Montsma coming out with the ball would be quite good. Said it before but Bielsa always changes to a 3 atb against teams with 2 forwards/2 pressers to they have a spare man. And does it quite late based on what Kalvin Philips was saying (pre-match interview, not sure if it'll be 3atb with me in it or 4, depends if they play the two forwards)...

Not sure Mapp has really looked at it at any point - might be other reasons but Poole, Sorensen maybe McGrandles would have played it at MK Dons at the very least.
 
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