Playing “football”? | Vital Football

Playing “football”?

OneSirKeefy

OneSirKeefy

Vital Football Hero
I was going to just reply with this on the Cheltenham thread. But thought it might be worth a wider discussion.

It’s interesting that a lot of you are saying we played decent passing football at times last night. And looked good. Fans saying they enjoyed the game and that we just lacked a finisher etc. Very rare after a loss.

Could it be that a different manager might get this same set of players playing “football”?

All along I’ve thought that SE is the best man for our current circumstances, and still do. But maybe, just maybe, the time has come for a more “footballing manager” to see what we can do.

Are any of our mentioned possible next managers of that ilk? Neil Smith, Mike Flynn, Adam Barrett? Etc Anyone else? Are they known to get sides playing decent football?

What say thee all? Stick with SE and direct football?

Or could we do better WITH THE CURRENT SQUAD by playing passing, patient build up football?

(I’ve said with current squad, because if it’s soon, then the next managers hands will be tied to it).
 
I have wondered the same OSK. One thing for sure is that our style of football makes it very difficult for youngsters coming in and it leads to more injuries in my view. I'm not having a go at Evans but we have been forced into thinking about what happens after him. It's not just that we play direct football but more that we don't mix it up enough and are too predictable.

Michael Flynn plays pretty basic stuff so more of the same, don't know about the others. I'd prefer a bit more football even if we end up going down. The basic stuff is only acceptable if we get over the line.
 
Fair question OSK. I suspect that Evans has brought in players that suit this style so maybe it would be very difficult for a new manager to change the way they play. As we are in a relegation dogfight this could be a disastrous experiment.

Mind you, if we are failing now, perhaps we should change. I'd lime to see how we get on with some of our first teamers back before making a call on it.
 
I think people are getting a bit carried away with the descriptions of us "playing football" last night. With the inclusion of Lee and Karayol, we definitely had more creativity and different options to usual - Lee as he was looking for through balls and early shots and Karayol as he provides more width and options to run at teams. However, our general pattern from the back was the same with plenty of long balls, which I'm not complaining about given our position and injury situation. I think it probably seemed like we were playing more football last night as we were playing against one of the few teams on the division who play as if not more direct than us. Cheltenham pumped lots of balls long last night and were pretty combative and physical and, possibly because of the number of kids we had in the team, they succeeded in out-Evansing us.

All in, I am not really sure how we should play. I am not sure that we've got the players to outplay teams, but at the moment, the direct style isn't working. I've always said that's the problem with Evans. With his ugly style of football and attitude that rubs a lot of people up the wrong way, he needs to win games and needs to get the team over-achieving. If that doesn't happen, we haven't got nice football to fall back on and I personally didn't enjoy last night overall, although I did enjoy the creativity and attacking options that Lee and Carayol brought and I look forward to seeing them link up with Big V and other currently injured players going forward and that was the one ray of hope from last night.

I personally think that Evans is being saved from the wrath of the fans by the fact that most negativity at the moment is towards the chairmen. I personally think Evans leaving is a formality and it's just a matter of whether he resigns and goes somewhere else (and we get comp) or he's sacked by Scally. I think Scally would be happy if Evans resigns and Evans would be happy to get sacked (just a personal hunch). As I said in the Cheltenham thread, I think this may well happen one way or the other after the Pompey game as we have a big gap to the next game. I still think if his heart is fully in it, Evans is our best chance of staying up (although it could be argued the weakness of other teams may be the best chance for us), but I am also starting to think Evans has taken us as far as he can and a change, which may not necessarily be the best in the long run, may give us some impetus.
 
We really haven’t been that much of a long ball side this season.
What looks bad is the throw in situation with Jackson loading the ball in the box from the halfway line.
I remember the Sunderland fans slaughtering us for anti football when the stats showed that they played many more long balls than us.
Macdonald, Dempsey, O’keefe, Lloyd, Lee, Phillips, Carayol, they are all passers. Probably add Adshead to that.
Unfortunately Max does look to punt it as first option.
Obviously SE has instructed the keeper and defence to get it forward quickly but they shouldn’t always feel they have to go long.
We have some decent ball players (when available)
 
Problem is even when we don't play long other sides move the ball about better and find colleagues more consistently. Our default is long and we aren't great at keep ball. Cheltenham are a big physical side but they played it around too. We have some good individual passers of the ball but how often do they link up .
 
Last night there was frustration around me that;
The ball would be played back and forth across the back line several times....
...then hoofed forward with the usual lottery of who gets a head on the ball - followed by where the ball falls.

Surely the players (management?) need to make up their mind ?
If it's possession and careful build up, stick to that.....
...and team-mates need to move to give options to the ball holder.

If it's hoof-ball - do it quickly before the defence has time to organise.

Then there were the times, in possession, when a midfielder make a short move forward then stops, allowing the defence time to retreat and widen - rather than our midfielder keep running down the line to receive a defence-breaking pass. (Does that make sense? :oops:)

Lastly, why so few second balls at corners etc ?
Was it just bad luck that a knock down came out to the far corner of the penalty area, with no Gills nearby ?

I remember a match away at Watford.
At the time, they had few big players, so rarely reached crosses.
Yet often, they managed to be in position for the knock-downs.
It looked like organisation not luck.
 
OneSirKeefy said:
I was going to just reply with this on the Cheltenham thread. But thought it might be worth a wider discussion.

It’s interesting that a lot of you are saying we played decent passing football at times last night. And looked good. Fans saying they enjoyed the game and that we just lacked a finisher etc. Very rare after a loss.

Could it be that a different manager might get this same set of players playing “football”?

All along I’ve thought that SE is the best man for our current circumstances, and still do. But maybe, just maybe, the time has come for a more “footballing manager” to see what we can do.

Are any of our mentioned possible next managers of that ilk? Neil Smith, Mike Flynn, Adam Barrett? Etc Anyone else? Are they known to get sides playing decent football?

What say thee all? Stick with SE and direct football?

Or could we do better WITH THE CURRENT SQUAD by playing passing, patient build up football?

(I’ve said with current squad, because if it’s soon, then the next managers hands will be tied to it).
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But Steve Evans doesn't do 'patient, passing, build-up' football and this style requires players of a high(er) talent and skillset. That's why things went belly-up under Peter Taylor; one-touch, tiki-taka style, Barcelona-type, build-up play needs a good team that can adapt, with a bit of experience and a confidence mindset to boot. It also comes a cropper against physical, 'agricultural' teams who can get the right players on the end of those direct balls (like we have been under Evans over the last couple of years).
 
The long throws, when available, are a big part of our attacking game. Win or lose the first ball, they have absolutely no impact on the outcome of the game beyond using up time.
 
jokerman said:
The long throws, when available, are a big part of our attacking game. Win or lose the first ball, they have absolutely no impact on the outcome of the game beyond using up time.
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Agreed , we're achieving very little from them.
Jackson normally lobs them on a high trajectory , rarely consistent on how far these are thrown.
Last night , he threw one low and flat , that was accurate to a specific target.
 
OneSirKeefy said:
I was going to just reply with this on the Cheltenham thread. But thought it might be worth a wider discussion.

It’s interesting that a lot of you are saying we played decent passing football at times last night. And looked good. Fans saying they enjoyed the game and that we just lacked a finisher etc. Very rare after a loss.

Could it be that a different manager might get this same set of players playing “football”?

All along I’ve thought that SE is the best man for our current circumstances, and still do. But maybe, just maybe, the time has come for a more “footballing manager” to see what we can do.

Are any of our mentioned possible next managers of that ilk? Neil Smith, Mike Flynn, Adam Barrett? Etc Anyone else? Are they known to get sides playing decent football?

What say thee all? Stick with SE and direct football?

Or could we do better WITH THE CURRENT SQUAD by playing passing, patient build up football?

(I’ve said with current squad, because if it’s soon, then the next managers hands will be tied to it).
Click to expand...
I still think Neil Harris might be a good choice. His style is said to be Wholehearted and Aggressive I know he has had a mixed record but I think mainly at a higher level.He wasn't a favourite of mine as a player but that is not relevant. He I believe would be hungry to prove himself. Still want Evans to stay but if we have to let him go I think Harris might top my list.
 
chris who said:
I still think Neil Harris might be a good choice. His style is said to be Wholehearted and Aggressive I know he has had a mixed record but I think mainly at a higher level.He wasn't a favourite of mine as a player but that is not relevant. He I believe would be hungry to prove himself. Still want Evans to stay but if we have to let him go I think Harris might top my list.
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I doubt we’d get him.

Besides, I feel what we really need is someone who has plenty of contacts. An old timer who knows how to exploit the loan market.
 
Archiepoptart said:
I prefer the idea of Neil Harris rather than Neil smith
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Neil Signed up as Cardiff manager in November 2019 until the summer of 2022.But was sacked in January this year. So would not be available until the summer to us as he will still being paid by Cardiff.But for next season he might be.If Evans leaves in the summer I believe he could be a realistic target.
If Evans leaves before that I feel getting Neil Smith in a caretaker role might be a forgone conclusion.
 
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chris who said:
Neil Signed up as Cardiff manager in November 2019 until the summer of 2022.But was sacked in January this year. So would not be available until the summer to us as he will still being paid by Cardiff.But for next season he might be.If Evans leaves in the summer I believe he could be a realistic target.
If Evans leaves before that I feel getting Neil Smith in a caretaker role might be a forgone conclusion.
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I think Evans would only leave before the end of the season if it was to walk straight into another job, and the Stevenage position has gone to Tisdale.
 
Let's face it .We don't have any idea if Evans was interested in going to Stevenage. What clubs are in or out of his interest for future appointments. Given how far apart his jobs have been geographically.It hasn't been that much of a barrier In the past.At present if Scally could get a decent budget sorted for next season or even find a buyer it is not impossible that he might stay put.But the odds are against it admittedly. I would guess that nothing at our sort of level has been totally ruled out at this stage.
Perhaps strangely we might have a better chance of keeping him if we were relegated.It sounds odd but at this stage the Priestfield faithful have not generally blamed him for our position. But more importantly perhaps has Scally?
If we were in league two the budget might be required to be lower but then so would others in that league. His value to other clubs would be significantly lower as a result of relegation too.So the fact that he didn't dismiss Stevenage out of hand does make me think there is still a chance of him staying possibly slightly more chance than is generally expected.
 
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chris who said:
Let's face it .We don't have any idea if Evans was interested in going to Stevenage. What clubs are in or out of his interest for future appointments. Given how far apart his jobs have been geographically.It hasn't been that much of a barrier In the past.At present if Scally could get a decent budget sorted for next season or even find a buyer it is not impossible that he might stay put.But the odds are against it admittedly. I would guess that nothing at our sort of level has been totally ruled out at this stage.
Perhaps strangely we might have a better chance of keeping him if we were relegated.It sounds odd but at this stage the Priestfield faithful have not generally blamed him for our position. But more importantly perhaps has Scally?
If we were in league two the budget might be required to be lower but then so would others in that league. His value to other clubs would be significantly lower as a result of relegation too.So the fact that he didn't dismiss Stevenage out of hand does make me think there is still a chance of him staying possibly slightly more chance than is generally expected.
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I like to think outr budget if we did get relegated would be one of the higher in League 2.
 
I think that the chance of SE being Gills manager next season is virtually nil.
I’d be happy if he signed a new contract but really can’t see it under any circumstances.
The playing budget for next season will be no more than this season, and if revenue is down because of lack of interest, it will probably be lower.
 
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