Derby County | Page 5 | Vital Football

Derby County

I was listening to Talksport earlier and heard their Admins speaking, it sent shivers down my spine. It was virtually the same speech Krasner gave when they came in to our club, don't worry there are a number of buyers interested, the managers job is safe, we are just looking to complete the fixtures at this moment, there are no plans at this moment to sell players.

It is as if they were all schooled at the same place and given a list of platitudes to say when asked how bad it will be.

I fear for the Derby fans and genuinely hope they have a better experience than we had.
 
C_Latic said:
I have no idea how big Derby's attendances are currently but I'd be willing to bet it isn't 26k.

Just checked and their most recent attendance was 20k against Stoke. You'd imagine well over half of those fans were season ticket holders, whose money has already been swallowed up by the club. That leaves not many fans actually paying for tickets. So whatever cash they are generating on a match day won't be very high at all in reality and certainly not enough to pay their eye watering wage bill.

So unless they own any land or buildings they can flog like a training ground/car park etc, selling players will be the only way Derby can generate the amount of money needed to pay wages with immediate effect and they aren't allowed to do that for another three months. They better hope that the players are willing to accept wage deferrals or they are in big trouble.

It's been a long time since I've seen begging buckets at a football ground, I suspect they'll out in force at Derby's next home game.
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Thay can sell players and take the Mony but the player can only register and play in Jan for his new club .
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
I was listening to Talksport earlier and heard their Admins speaking, it sent shivers down my spine. It was virtually the same speech Krasner gave when they came in to our club, don't worry there are a number of buyers interested, the managers job is safe, we are just looking to complete the fixtures at this moment, there are no plans at this moment to sell players.

It is as if they were all schooled at the same place and given a list of platitudes to say when asked how bad it will be.

I fear for the Derby fans and genuinely hope they have a better experience than we had.
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Didn’t hear the presser but have read some of the transcripts. If I didn’t know otherwise I’d have thought I was reading the one from ours last July. I felt a little reassured for a day or two thinking they had our interests at heart, despite knowing where their priorities lay. I suspect Derby fans have been temporarily lulled into the same sense of reassurance and feel for them when reality dawns in a couple of days.

Interestingly their admins state they are seeking loans to cover wages, expenses etc. I doubt those interest rates will be competitive. Understandably they didn’t disclose the debt but conceded it was substantive. The ground isn’t owned by them so that’s a shitload to pay to buy that club without its main asset. Difficult times ahead.
 
Made in Wigan said:
Didn’t hear the presser but have read some of the transcripts. If I didn’t know otherwise I’d have thought I was reading the one from ours last July. I felt a little reassured for a day or two thinking they had our interests at heart, despite knowing where their priorities lay. I suspect Derby fans have been temporarily lulled into the same sense of reassurance and feel for them when reality dawns in a couple of days.

Interestingly their admins state they are seeking loans to cover wages, expenses etc. I doubt those interest rates will be competitive. Understandably they didn’t disclose the debt but conceded it was substantive. The ground isn’t owned by them so that’s a shitload to pay to buy that club without its main asset. Difficult times ahead.
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Apparently they owe over £20 million to HMRC and an estimated £40 million to other creditors. The rules state that all the HMRC debt must be paid and 25% of the remaining amount. What is not known however is how much of that £40 million is owed to Morris and could be waived. Regardless it looks like someone is going to have to fork out around £30 million just to clear the debt or risk further points being deducted.
 
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What's happened to Mel Morris is basically an example of why I don't understand how anyone would want to own a football club outside the Premier League. Morris has put over £200m of his own money into Derby and what has his reward been for it? Absolutely nothing! No promotion, just consistent boring Championship football and numerous scraps with the EFL over financial fair play.

Of course Morris would have made pretty much all that money back in one season in the Premier League and herein lies the reason why owners of Championship football clubs in this country are happy to continue pissing money up the wall chasing that Premier League bounty. Imagine if Derby County had won one of the numerous playoff campaigns they've competed in over recent years. Mel Morris would be lauded as a hero in Derby and his bank balance alongside that of the club bulging. Instead, his name will now be mud within the city, and his bank balance heavily depleted to the point where he's been forced to pull out I'm assuming in a bid to retain what little fortune he has left for himself. Such fine margins!
 
C_Latic said:
What's happened to Mel Morris is basically an example of why I don't understand how anyone would want to own a football club outside the Premier League. Morris has put over £200m of his own money into Derby and what has his reward been for it? Absolutely nothing! No promotion, just consistent boring Championship football and numerous scraps with the EFL over financial fair play.

Of course Morris would have made pretty much all that money back in one season in the Premier League and herein lies the reason why owners of Championship football clubs in this country are happy to continue pissing money up the wall chasing that Premier League bounty. Imagine if Derby County had won one of the numerous playoff campaigns they've competed in over recent years. Mel Morris would be lauded as a hero in Derby and his bank balance alongside that of the club bulging. Instead, his name will now be mud within the city, and his bank balance heavily depleted to the point where he's been forced to pull out I'm assuming in a bid to retain what little fortune he has left for himself. Such fine margins!
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Rooney is Derbys biggest problem draining a reported 100k per week and he is commited to the club. Well he would be taking that kind of money and a certain relegation he should be the first on the chop list and if he is so concerned about Derby waive his contract.
 
Thupthetics said:
Rooney is Derbys biggest problem draining a reported 100k per week and he is commited to the club. Well he would be taking that kind of money and a certain relegation he should be the first on the chop list and if he is so concerned about Derby waive his contract.
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It was reported at the time he arrived that 32 red were subsidising some of his wage. Although admittedly it probably still leaves a sizeable chunk for the club
 
C_Latic said:
What's happened to Mel Morris is basically an example of why I don't understand how anyone would want to own a football club outside the Premier League. Morris has put over £200m of his own money into Derby and what has his reward been for it? Absolutely nothing! No promotion, just consistent boring Championship football and numerous scraps with the EFL over financial fair play.

Of course Morris would have made pretty much all that money back in one season in the Premier League and herein lies the reason why owners of Championship football clubs in this country are happy to continue pissing money up the wall chasing that Premier League bounty. Imagine if Derby County had won one of the numerous playoff campaigns they've competed in over recent years. Mel Morris would be lauded as a hero in Derby and his bank balance alongside that of the club bulging. Instead, his name will now be mud within the city, and his bank balance heavily depleted to the point where he's been forced to pull out I'm assuming in a bid to retain what little fortune he has left for himself. Such fine margins!
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The fact that previously QPR and Bournemouth rolled the same dice and got lucky and away with a slap on the wrist - never mind the pathetic sanctions handed out to the big six who were up for the European super league sums up the state of the game in England - top to bottom stinks
 
Hampton said:
The fact that previously QPR and Bournemouth rolled the same dice and got lucky and away with a slap on the wrist - never mind the pathetic sanctions handed out to the big six who were up for the European super league sums up the state of the game in England - top to bottom stinks
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Without sounding like a broken record...I'll say it again, the big six get a slap on the wrist for doing something wrong, yet if it happened to be six less influential clubs doing something similar wrong they'd have been crucified...in the same vein, if one of the big six went into admin there would be all sorts of help, reform & bending over backwards to sort it out, whereas a nondescript lower six would be left to face the music, sort their shit out & take whatever punishment is coming their way.
EFL / FA / UEFA / FIFA......only interested in lining their own pockets....corrupt to the core the lot of them.
 
I can imagine the EFL will do some mental gymnastics to justify why after what they did to us Derby County can get their Admin pointes deduction reduced and no punishment for all their other offences.

Different set of rules for big clubs the EFL care about, you just have to see the fact Derby were allowed to start this season in the Championship.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
I can imagine the EFL will do some mental gymnastics to justify why after what they did to us Derby County can get their Admin pointes deduction reduced and no punishment for all their other offences.

Different set of rules for big clubs the EFL care about, you just have to see the fact Derby were allowed to start this season in the Championship.
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If it was Wycombe who had broken rules and Derby who went down last season, what are the odds that the punishment would've been dealt with very differently? As with all political organisations, the EFL's rules are like plasticine... to be moulded, mixed and deformed to suit the situation... in this case keeping the big club up and the little club down. What's actually right and wrong is completely immaterial to them.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
I can imagine the EFL will do some mental gymnastics to justify why after what they did to us Derby County can get their Admin pointes deduction reduced and no punishment for all their other offences.

Different set of rules for big clubs the EFL care about, you just have to see the fact Derby were allowed to start this season in the Championship.
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The EFL have already deducted them 12 points for entering administration.
Derby are appealing it & it will be heard by an independent tribunal who will make the decision about whether force majeure applies in this situation & what points deduction should be given (if any) - Not the EFL. Just like happened with us.

And Derby were allowed to start this season in the Championship because the EFL were advised that any appeal about the last tribunal decision stood little chance of succeeding. It was only the timing of that decision about an appeal which was deciding whether it was Wycombe or Derby who started this season in the Championship

And the EFL charged Derby with offences & appealed & appealed when decisions didn't go the EFL's way so it's not as if they've favoured them because they're a "big club"

I don't know whether they'll be successful but I'd say that they've got a better legal case than Latics ever had as they can point to Covid as having a massive impact on their income whereas we had an owner who bought us during the pandemic and had consulted the administrator before he'd eve bought us. So arguing our administration was caused by covid never stood any chance of succeeding. We were shafted by consecutive, unscrupulous owners but there's nothing in the EFL rules saying that is a grounds for appeal

i think I've said it before, but that isn't me saying they should get off with it as Mel Morris seems to have gambled massively with their finances & it's backfired but he was looking for an out before covid & had already missed salaries, other payments & they didn't qualify for the EFL covid grant because they couldn't provide the financial information or resources required
 
Mighty Bongsmon said:
The EFL have already deducted them 12 points for entering administration.
Derby are appealing it & it will be heard by an independent tribunal who will make the decision about whether force majeure applies in this situation & what points deduction should be given (if any) - Not the EFL. Just like happened with us.

And Derby were allowed to start this season in the Championship because the EFL were advised that any appeal about the last tribunal decision stood little chance of succeeding. It was only the timing of that decision about an appeal which was deciding whether it was Wycombe or Derby who started this season in the Championship

And the EFL charged Derby with offences & appealed & appealed when decisions didn't go the EFL's way so it's not as if they've favoured them because they're a "big club"

I don't know whether they'll be successful but I'd say that they've got a better legal case than Latics ever had as they can point to Covid as having a massive impact on their income whereas we had an owner who bought us during the pandemic and had consulted the administrator before he'd eve bought us. So arguing our administration was caused by covid never stood any chance of succeeding. We were shafted by consecutive, unscrupulous owners but there's nothing in the EFL rules saying that is a grounds for appeal

i think I've said it before, but that isn't me saying they should get off with it as Mel Morris seems to have gambled massively with their finances & it's backfired but he was looking for an out before covid & had already missed salaries, other payments & they didn't qualify for the EFL covid grant because they couldn't provide the financial information or resources required
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If that lose their appeal do thay get more points deducted ?
 
Derby have been financially mismanaged for years hence the numerous breaches of ffp, none submission of accounts etc. No doubt covid has had an impact but it certainly isn’t the sole reason they are in administration. That said, I hope they win, if only to piss those whippet botherers right off.
 
Just been reading an article about their appeal and the similarity to our situation.

I feel sorry for their fans who are saying exactly what we were saying last year in the lead up to the appeal. I fear they too will have their dreams shattered when the decision goes against them and the reality dawns that the EFL and independent panel are simply applying the rules and will not give any leeway.

They are saying that there are significant differences between our appeal and theirs and yet the same problem is evident, the poor stewardship in both cases. In our case it was IEC ( Choi) and NLF (Au Yeung) in theirs it is Mel Morris, neither should have ever been in charge of a football club as it is their poor management and overspending, in the case of Derby, that has brought the administration on.

As I say I do fear for them as their debts are immense and will need someone with very deep pockets to bail them out.
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
Just been reading an article about their appeal and the similarity to our situation.

I feel sorry for their fans who are saying exactly what we were saying last year in the lead up to the appeal. I fear they too will have their dreams shattered when the decision goes against them and the reality dawns that the EFL and independent panel are simply applying the rules and will not give any leeway.

They are saying that there are significant differences between our appeal and theirs and yet the same problem is evident, the poor stewardship in both cases. In our case it was IEC ( Choi) and NLF (Au Yeung) in theirs it is Mel Morris, neither should have ever been in charge of a football club as it is their poor management and overspending, in the case of Derby, that has brought the administration on.

As I say I do fear for them as their debts are immense and will need someone with very deep pockets to bail them out.
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Am I Wright in saying that have sum more points deducted on the way. or is that it ?
 
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