#COVID19 | Page 879 | Vital Football

#COVID19

I agree with the gist of this. There is a huge mess to clear up.

But I don't know what you mean by "tunnel visioned about lockdown".
Lockdowns were essential. If we had done them sooner and harder, they would have had shorter durations, fewer people would have died, the economy would have suffered less, and we might be back in pubs by now.

I’m not sure I agree that there would have been such a big impact as is made out by locking down sooner. Cases were growing throughout lockdown until we got a vaccine - it felt like an inevitability. Not saying we shouldn’t have, but that I still think the outcome would have been bad, because highest transmission comes from areas that are still open.

Regardless, it’s not about dismissing the importance of lockdown and the pressure on the NHS, but very much about the fact that it’s 2 months until these sectors are allowed to reopen in their entirety and also 3 for hospitality.

There isn’t a balance and other than the obligatory “yeah it’s sad for the economy”, people haven’t grasped just how bad this is going to be. Thousands and thousands are about to be thrust into a small competitive job market at the same time - applying for businesses, which in some cases have halved in size as a result of not being able to trade to capacity.

People think we’re over the worst of the pandemic, perhaps we are medically, but economically, I feel so sorry for the young who’re about to be double slapped when they get their freedom back.
 
I think his words were more cautious than Macron as he pointed out that experiments showed the variants were less susceptible to the vaccine (which is correct) but, either way, I don't think CP has quite so much influence or needs to take into account so much the consequences of his words on a football forum.

Except on here, of course, where he is more a god than a man.

I do like him, he has got a swagger and I like the cut of his jib.
 
I’m not sure I agree that there would have been such a big impact as is made out by locking down sooner. Cases were growing throughout lockdown until we got a vaccine - it felt like an inevitability. Not saying we shouldn’t have, but that I still think the outcome would have been bad, because highest transmission comes from areas that are still open.

Regardless, it’s not about dismissing the importance of lockdown and the pressure on the NHS, but very much about the fact that it’s 2 months until these sectors are allowed to reopen in their entirety and also 3 for hospitality.

There isn’t a balance and other than the obligatory “yeah it’s sad for the economy”, people haven’t grasped just how bad this is going to be. Thousands and thousands are about to be thrust into a small competitive job market at the same time - applying for businesses, which in some cases have halved in size as a result of not being able to trade to capacity.

People think we’re over the worst of the pandemic, perhaps we are medically, but economically, I feel so sorry for the young who’re about to be double slapped when they get their freedom back.

That is not right Will, the data does show lockdowns have been effective in reducing transmission. Ergo it is entirely correct to suggest earlier more stringent lockdowns would have saved lives and allowed us out of this mess earlier.

You are of course entirely correct about the economy. Let's see what rishi does later.
 
That is not right Will, the data does show lockdowns have been effective in reducing transmission. Ergo it is entirely correct to suggest earlier more stringent lockdowns would have saved lives and allowed us out of this mess earlier.

You are of course entirely correct about the economy. Let's see what rishi does later.

It was eventually, but it wouldn’t have made a difference to how quickly we rolled the vaccine out, so disagree that we’d have been out of this quicker - we simply wouldn’t until people were vaccinated.

Regardless, it’s all been about Covid transmission and now I think there’ll be a real awakening for people on the other side of it.
 
I’m not sure I agree that there would have been such a big impact as is made out by locking down sooner. Cases were growing throughout lockdown until we got a vaccine - it felt like an inevitability. Not saying we shouldn’t have, but that I still think the outcome would have been bad, because highest transmission comes from areas that are still open.

Regardless, it’s not about dismissing the importance of lockdown and the pressure on the NHS, but very much about the fact that it’s 2 months until these sectors are allowed to reopen in their entirety and also 3 for hospitality.

There isn’t a balance and other than the obligatory “yeah it’s sad for the economy”, people haven’t grasped just how bad this is going to be. Thousands and thousands are about to be thrust into a small competitive job market at the same time - applying for businesses, which in some cases have halved in size as a result of not being able to trade to capacity.

People think we’re over the worst of the pandemic, perhaps we are medically, but economically, I feel so sorry for the young who’re about to be double slapped when they get their freedom back.
Lots to agree with here. It is a desperate situation for a vast number of people.
(Not me, obviously, because I'm a "full salary ******" with no connection to the real world.)

Some things to disagree/debate with.
During each lockdown cases slowed and reversed.
Yes, there were areas of growth, at least for a while, and, yes, these are in the areas /sectors that were more open. That only reinforces the conclusion that lockdowns are very effective and how important they were. They have even contained the Kent, SA and Brazilian variants, despite them being more transmissible.
Having lots of deaths was fairly inevitable - having this many most certainly was not. I've read on here that lockdowns only delay covid deaths: clearly untrue as we see the vaccination programme take effect. Taking a hit to the economy was inevitable. Taking this much of a hit most certainly was not.

At least twice we have reopened to soon and gone back to worse than square one with all the implications for the economy, jobs, mental health and so on. The governess cautious approach this time is correct and a support them in that, in the face of opposition from the usual know-nothing know-it-alls making a racket on their back benches. I reject the idea that the economy and deaths are some sort of balance to be struck. Getting virus levels down is good for both, and the sooner the better.
 
It was eventually, but it wouldn’t have made a difference to how quickly we rolled the vaccine out, so disagree that we’d have been out of this quicker - we simply wouldn’t until people were vaccinated.

Regardless, it’s all been about Covid transmission and now I think there’ll be a real awakening for people on the other side of it.

This is where ITTO's argument when charging the government with too late and too long, falls down; we'd be in eternal cycle if it wasn't for the vaccine, as, even though the CMO and CMI were saying that herd immunity is the goal, it can only be achieved with natural immunity along with vaccination immunity.
 
Lots to agree with here. It is a desperate situation for a vast number of people.
(Not me, obviously, because I'm a "full salary ******" with no connection to the real world.)

Some things to disagree/debate with.
During each lockdown cases slowed and reversed.
Yes, there were areas of growth, at least for a while, and, yes, these are in the areas /sectors that were more open. That only reinforces the conclusion that lockdowns are very effective and how important they were. They have even contained the Kent, SA and Brazilian variants, despite them being more transmissible.
Having lots of deaths was fairly inevitable - having this many most certainly was not. I've read on here that lockdowns only delay covid deaths: clearly untrue as we see the vaccination programme take effect. Taking a hit to the economy was inevitable. Taking this much of a hit most certainly was not.

At least twice we have reopened to soon and gone back to worse than square one with all the implications for the economy, jobs, mental health and so on. The governess cautious approach this time is correct and a support them in that, in the face of opposition from the usual know-nothing know-it-alls making a racket on their back benches. I reject the idea that the economy and deaths are some sort of balance to be struck. Getting virus levels down is good for both, and the sooner the better.

It may have been reversing, but it reversed in the summer where we got deaths down to zero, we came out of lockdown and it grew again. It would have been a vicious circle had it not been for the vaccines, particularly given we’ve just gone through winter, which means we’d have been using the same timelines as right now from an exit perspective, unless we planned on doing a summer repeat.

My issue isn’t necessarily with what we’ve ended up doing to save lives, but very much about people’s attitudes to the economy (not you by the way). It’s possible to have the opinion that lockdown was a necessity, whilst still appreciating that this is an utterly horrendous for people under 40.

They’ve been thrown into complete uncertainty when it comes to job security, when they were never really at risk of the disease. The triple whammy will be when the thousands eventually find a job, they’ll have their income tax hiked up to the point where they questioned why they wanted a job in the first place.

These are genuine fears and in many cases, realities, but they were met with statements like “Covidiots” or “you happy for many to die for you to go for a pint” when the debate was made. People like that tosser Piers Morgan have only shown compassion for one set of people because he’s so out of touch with reality and it doesn’t impact him or his villa.

The fact that Boris hasn’t once used one of his many briefings to acknowledge the situation for so many millions is frankly despicable.

On your point around a cautious reopening - I don’t really understand the science behind it. If the vaccine is reducing hospitalization and deaths by up to 95% on a group that have already been vaccinated with admissions plummeting, I’m not sure what scientific evidence there would be that backs hospitality and none essential shops needing to wait months for reopening? The transmission rate was already incredibly low in these sectors, so this just feels like an unnecessary kick in the teeth.

And for those who think I’m just after a pint in the sun, it isn’t about that. I can take or leave that. I work in the umbrella that has been hit hardest and restructures are happening every 6 months. People might think “let’s give it 3 months to be sure”, but that could be the difference between thousands keeping their job and thousands losing it.
 
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I’m not sure I agree that there would have been such a big impact as is made out by locking down sooner. Cases were growing throughout lockdown until we got a vaccine - it felt like an inevitability. Not saying we shouldn’t have, but that I still think the outcome would have been bad, because highest transmission comes from areas that are still open.

Regardless, it’s not about dismissing the importance of lockdown and the pressure on the NHS, but very much about the fact that it’s 2 months until these sectors are allowed to reopen in their entirety and also 3 for hospitality.

There isn’t a balance and other than the obligatory “yeah it’s sad for the economy”, people haven’t grasped just how bad this is going to be. Thousands and thousands are about to be thrust into a small competitive job market at the same time - applying for businesses, which in some cases have halved in size as a result of not being able to trade to capacity.

People think we’re over the worst of the pandemic, perhaps we are medically, but economically, I feel so sorry for the young who’re about to be double slapped when they get their freedom back.

I appreciate that there's a difference between the UK and Australia but lockdowns have worked very well for us over here and are still doing so. not just well but very well. We were also quick with Track and Trace systems too, also quick off the mark with restrictions with incoming flyers too. And we have kept our dead figure down to just over 900 so far.
But our economy was suffering before that and was fairly static, wages had not increased markedly for a few years and we also have a fight on our hands to improve things. Qantas has just announced a huge loss, just like many other businesses in that sort of business but it looks as though we are pretty quick at creating jobs in general, and our unemployed figure has started to drop. From what I read and hear it sounds as though the UK Govt has done a poor job, on the other hand we have been better off both with our Federal and State Govts.
It's also fair to point out that I have 9 grandsons and grand daughters all in their 20s and 30s and they don't seem to be too handicapped by our restrictions.
It looks as though this covid is here to stay so we'd better start getting used to it.
 
I appreciate that there's a difference between the UK and Australia but lockdowns have worked very well for us over here and are still doing so. not just well but very well. We were also quick with Track and Trace systems too, also quick off the mark with restrictions with incoming flyers too. And we have kept our dead figure down to just over 900 so far.
But our economy was suffering before that and was fairly static, wages had not increased markedly for a few years and we also have a fight on our hands to improve things. Qantas has just announced a huge loss, just like many other businesses in that sort of business but it looks as though we are pretty quick at creating jobs in general, and our unemployed figure has started to drop. From what I read and hear it sounds as though the UK Govt has done a poor job, on the other hand we have been better off both with our Federal and State Govts.
It's also fair to point out that I have 9 grandsons and grand daughters all in their 20s and 30s and they don't seem to be too handicapped by our restrictions.
It looks as though this covid is here to stay so we'd better start getting used to it.

Agree on international travel. Frankly ludicrous how long we took to do anything there when everything else was shut.

In terms of Covid, I won’t be getting used to it ORF. 10% of the biggest employer in Nottingham have just been told they’ve got to go 6 months after they announced a previous 2000 had to. That’s not something to get used to, that’s something that tells us that once vaccines are rolled out, we get back to normal ASAP.

I’m pleased your grandchildren are coping, but I can assure you it’s not the same over here, as per the above losses and not being able to see anyone or do anything. They don’t deserve what’s happening or what’s coming.
 
Agree on international travel. Frankly ludicrous how long we took to do anything there when everything else was shut.

In terms of Covid, I won’t be getting used to it ORF. 10% of the biggest employer in Nottingham have just been told they’ve got to go 6 months after they announced a previous 2 thousand. That’s not something to get used to, that’s something that tells us that once vaccines are rolled out, we get back to normal ASAP.

I’m pleased your grandchildren at coping - I can assure you it’s not the same over here, as per the above and not being able to see anyone or do anything.

I'm with you.

We need to fast track getting back to normality.
 
It may have been reversing, but it reversed in the summer where we got deaths down to zero, we came out of lockdown and it grew again. It would have been a vicious circle had it not been for the vaccines, particularly given we’ve just gone through winter, which means we’d have been using the same timelines as right now from an exit perspective, unless we planned on doing a summer repeat.

My issue isn’t necessarily with what we’ve ended up doing to save lives, but very much about people’s attitudes to the economy (not you by the way). It’s possible to have the opinion that lockdown was a necessity, whilst still appreciating that this is an utterly horrendous for people under 40.

They’ve been thrown into complete uncertainty when it comes to job security, when they were never really at risk of the disease. The triple whammy will be when the thousands eventually find a job, they’ll have their income tax hiked up to the point where they questioned why they wanted a job in the first place.

These are genuine fears and in many cases, realities, but they were met with statements like “Covidiots” or “you happy for many to die for you to go for a pint” when the debate was made. People like that tosser Piers Morgan have only shown compassion for one set of people because he’s so out of touch with reality and it doesn’t impact him or his villa.

The fact that Boris hasn’t once used one of his many briefings to acknowledge the situation for so many millions is frankly despicable.

On your point around a cautious reopening - I don’t really understand the science behind it. If the vaccine is reducing hospitalization and deaths by up to 95% on a group that have already been vaccinated with admissions plummeting, I’m not sure what scientific evidence there would be that backs hospitality and none essential shops needing to wait months for reopening? The transmission rate was already incredibly low in these sectors, so this just feels like an unnecessary kick in the teeth.

And for those who think I’m just after a pint in the sun, it isn’t about that. I can take or leave that. I work in the umbrella that has been hit hardest and restructures are happening every 6 months. People might think “let’s give it 3 months to be sure”, but that could be the difference between thousands keeping their job and thousands losing it.

We tried ignoring it, the Kent variant was detected and still we tried ignoring it. That resulted in thousands of deaths and an NHS collapsing. What do you think would have happened if we carried on ignoring it?

It's no coincidence that more aggressive strains have popped up when we've ignored the virus. One of which shows a propensity to evade vaccines and to reinfect people.

We needed to stop the deaths, remove the strain on the NHS and minimise the likelihood of a new variant which would undo the work done towards vaccinations.

Imagine a new strain had popped up here, similar to the SA variant that meant our vaccines were now useless. What would your thoughts be then?

The damage to the economy had been far greater because on two occasions 1) when the virus first appeared here and 2) when we let the Kent variant run unchecked we ignored the science and didn't lockdown quickly. That meant R spiralled out of control and lockdown was far longer than necessary.

It's been a tale of mismanagement that's cost over 100,000 lives and caused vast damage to the economy.
 
We tried ignoring it, the Kent variant was detected and still we tried ignoring it. That resulted in thousands of deaths and an NHS collapsing. What do you think would have happened if we carried on ignoring it?

It's no coincidence that more aggressive strains have popped up when we've ignored the virus. One of which shows a propensity to evade vaccines and to reinfect people.

We needed to stop the deaths, remove the strain on the NHS and minimise the likelihood of a new variant which would undo the work done towards vaccinations.

Imagine a new strain had popped up here, similar to the SA variant that meant our vaccines were now useless. What would your thoughts be then?

The damage to the economy had been far greater because on two occasions 1) when the virus first appeared here and 2) when we let the Kent variant run unchecked we ignored the science and didn't lockdown quickly. That meant R spiralled out of control and lockdown was far longer than necessary.

It's been a tale of mismanagement that's cost over 100,000 lives and caused vast damage to the economy.

I haven’t advocated ignoring it in any of my posts?
 
You can go and get a plate of fried egg and chips in a Spanish pub,
French children are getting educated (admittedly in French), Germans can get their mullets permed and the Swedes can sauna all day.

We, on the other hand are waiting and believe the modelling that has thus far been so far off, I'm beginning to wonder why they are being believed.

I'm just relieved Fergusson et al, aren't charged with modelling comet trajectory.
 
Today's trotting bullshit...

"Facemasks in schools will be a temporary measure to Easter"
"Vaccine passports will just be used to help open up the economy faster"


From the people who said:

"Three weeks to flatten the curve"
"People will be pleased to know I shook hands with Covid patients in hospital"


We are fooked aren't we?
 
The efficacy of the 'crappy' AstraZeneca vaccine and the super, smashing marvellous Pfizer one and the reductions in hospitalizations achieved and, obvz deaths...Capture.JPG