Evans and Raynor

[Captainreblue]

We’d all prefer a settled side and for BFSE to get all acquisitions/loans right.

But when he does make the inevitable mistake in the transfer/loan market, he is pretty swift to move them on. Hodgson, Cisse both come to mind. I think, in the past, we’d have retained those players on the books until the ends of their contracts.

Agree, but getting players under contract out the club must cost something, which however small is money out the budget that then can't be spent by SE, yet he bangs on about his small budget. He said at the fans forum when he arrived it was crucial they got the recruitment right and spent every penny of what budget they had wisely. Have they done that?IMO, no.

We must have had at least 20 loan players since SE arrival, half of those being sent back because they wern' t up to it. Yes every signing is a risk, but I'd wager we've had double the signings in and out of the club since SE arrival compared to our previous few managers. Not to be surprised, its what SE does. I'd rather he moulded players he's got into a better unit with coaching, rather than just changing personnel, which he's certainly done this season with us defensively. We've had so many combinations at the back this season but still we are a shambles a lot of the time defensively.

Think he's done a pretty good job in trying circumstances but there are still things about his methods I don't get or think work but he definitely has contacts in the game, he's proved that.

 

[EagerExile]

This is simple. Before Steve Evans arrived, we had years of flirting with relegation. We were always on the back foot as a club. I'm enjoying being able to look up rather than down. We've improved massively. Forget all the talk about recruitment policies or style of football. We're a solid League 1 side now because we're accumulating more points. That's what counts. I predict now that if Evans and Raynor leave in the summer, next season we'll be looking over our shoulder again.

 

[FishGills]

I think SE's recruitment has been average or less so why stick with that?

I'm interested to know who (or how many) you think we've signed in the last 5+ years, that have been "above average"?

Our signings are usually punts (that's with a "p"). Sometimes we get lucky with an Eaves or Egan. Aside from Ogilvie, I can't previously remember loanees from the likes of Arsenal, Southampton, Wolves & Celtic, not to mention picking up a youngster from Man Utd, even if it hasn't worked out.

Overall, I'm impressed with the way SE & PR have gone about business:

• They covet & tempt some classier players - Graham, Samuel, Dempsey, O'Keefe - most of whom cited the managers persistence & efforts as being a contributing factor to their signing
• They bring in seemingly cheap loans from some higher clubs, thanks to their contacts - Jones, O'Connor, Medley, Robertson (often in pairs - coincidence?)
• They balance things by bringing in some presumably cheaper players from lower levels to bolster the squad - Mellis, Bastien, MacDonald, Maghoma

At that point, we're depending on the middle category working, presumably because we have some kind of agreement in place that we'll play the loans as much as possible. We also need the latter category not to get too miffed about being signed & then not played.

I'll admit this season hasn't been as "good" as last season. BUT I'll also hold my hands up & say that I've not been there to shout encouragement from the stands!! Without doubt, that's been the single biggest difference for us this season IMO - no me, no crowd, no 'us against them', no real atmosphere. Agreed, every team is in the same boat but I reckon I could have brought a few more points our way if I was there..!

TL;DR: keep them if we can - they're the best we've had in years IMO!

 

[The Roone]

In my opinion the wrong question is being asked. It should be will Evans and Raynor want to stay? Their agent like all agents will be canvassing as many clubs as practical looking for a better deal. Their record shows they are unlikely to stay if a better offer comes in, so as always the club has to match the offer or they will go. I believe PS if he want's them will try hard to keep them, but if they want to go they will.

 

[Broncos77]

As you will know from my previous posts I'd like to see SE/PR move on at the end of the season. and not just because of his history.
One reason - I dont enjoy watching Gills since his arrival; its all angst and hoofball
I used to tell friends 'come to Gills and you'll get a good attitude, little swearing, and 'up and at em attitude, usually raising our game v bigger teams' some local lads coming through, some great characters, (Bayo, Kendall, Fuller) - but some dross. Now I keep quiet; if I say I support Gills they say 'you've got that s*** manager' or 'I wouldn't take my kids there with his behaviour on the sidelines'

If all you want is success go to London to watch Prem League at great expense.

I'd prefer us to recruit a young manager (e.g. the guy at Cambridge), and follow more the Crewe model of youth development - I like the football they play, despite little success. - with I'm sure a lower budget

I appreciate this is a minority view

ps missing Waldo's weekly player assessments

 

[Gills 58]

As you will know from my previous posts I'd like to see SE/PR move on at the end of the season. and not just because of his history.
One reason - I dont enjoy watching Gills since his arrival; its all angst and hoofball
I used to tell friends 'come to Gills and you'll get a good attitude, little swearing, and 'up and at em attitude, usually raising our game v bigger teams' some local lads coming through, some great characters, (Bayo, Kendall, Fuller) - but some dross. Now I keep quiet; if I say I support Gills they say 'you've got that s*** manager' or 'I wouldn't take my kids there with his behaviour on the sidelines'

If all you want is success go to London to watch Prem League at great expense.

I'd prefer us to recruit a young manager (e.g. the guy at Cambridge), and follow more the Crewe model of youth development - I like the football they play, despite little success. - with I'm sure a lower budget

I appreciate this is a minority view

ps missing Waldo's weekly player assessments

Yes, come on Waldo, missing your reports, especially seeing the number 7 multiple times.
:-)

 

[chris who]

In my opinion the wrong question is being asked. It should be will Evans and Raynor want to stay? Their agent like all agents will be canvassing as many clubs as practical looking for a better deal. Their record shows they are unlikely to stay if a better offer comes in, so as always the club has to match the offer or they will go. I believe PS if he want's them will try hard to keep them, but if they want to go they will.

The only difference I would make to that statement is Scally if he still has faith in Evans has a fairly good record of keeping managers. In the current climate there is a chance that the chairman you know and let's assume trust's is better than the unknown unless we are talking of major funding difference.Scally has got the advantage of having nobody else pulling strings etc. But the negative of that is there is no other source of funding so if the is a bid that Scally is asked to match he probably can't. I would think the best chance of keeping Evans is on a short term deal that suits both sides.

 

[shotshy]

Evans and Raynor are quite fortunate to be at a club with low expectations.
Basically, if they can keep us clear of the drop zone and occasionally flirt with the play off spots, they have got a job for life.

League two is dire but in league one, we can be competitive, turn over a big side now and then and have a slight hope of hitting the big time, safe in the knowledge that it’s unlikely.

Most fans want promotion.
I’m content with stability.

 

[alex_farrells_left_peg]

The only difference I would make to that statement is Scally if he still has faith in Evans has a fairly good record of keeping managers. In the current climate there is a chance that the chairman you know and let's assume trust's is better than the unknown unless we are talking of major funding difference.Scally has got the advantage of having nobody else pulling strings etc. But the negative of that is there is no other source of funding so if the is a bid that Scally is asked to match he probably can't. I would think the best chance of keeping Evans is on a short term deal that suits both sides.

There is also one more aspect that seems to have been forgotten. If Evans and Raynor did have to be replaced (and how/why they leave is irrelevant), any new manager would have a look through the squad, cherry-pick as much as possible and then tell the chairman who he wants to keep, who can leave and who he would like to bring in. The financial implications thereof do not bear thinking about in the current climate. We are a threadbare club and need to keep a tight hold on the purse strings. Love him or hate him (and I think he is still doing a reasonable job) Evans remaining will always be the best and most logical answer, unless of course some stinking rich (secret supporter) decides to come in with "loads of money" and the idea of taking us to the Premier league.

 

[Rob_b100]

Evans and Raynor are quite fortunate to be at a club with low expectations.
Basically, if they can keep us clear of the drop zone and occasionally flirt with the play off spots, they have got a job for life.

League two is dire but in league one, we can be competitive, turn over a big side now and then and have a slight hope of hitting the big time, safe in the knowledge that it’s unlikely.

Most fans want promotion.
I’m content with stability.

Good point. Also did I read somewhere (maybe earlier in this thread) that Evans stated when he took the job that he didn’t need the money, it was more the challenge that interested him. If so then unless his personal financial situation has greatly worsened then he also may feel its worth staying. For the moment anyway.

 

[chris who]

There is also one more aspect that seems to have been forgotten. If Evans and Raynor did have to be replaced (and how/why they leave is irrelevant), any new manager would have a look through the squad, cherry-pick as much as possible and then tell the chairman who he wants to keep, who can leave and who he would like to bring in. The financial implications thereof do not bear thinking about in the current climate. We are a threadbare club and need to keep a tight hold on the purse strings. Love him or hate him (and I think he is still doing a reasonable job) Evans remaining will always be the best and most logical answer, unless of course some stinking rich (secret supporter) decides to come in with "loads of money" and the idea of taking us to the Premier league.

What make you think that a new manager would necessary mean spending more money ? Evans squads largely will have to be rebuilt every season regardless of if Evans stays or not.A new manager could well be appointed with a smaller wage and budget.That could well be the case at many lower league clubs.If Scally is forced to trim the budget and the management wages.i would say it is unlikely that Evans will agree to it .But someone else will.

 

[wxgill]

There is also one more aspect that seems to have been forgotten. If Evans and Raynor did have to be replaced (and how/why they leave is irrelevant), any new manager would have a look through the squad, cherry-pick as much as possible and then tell the chairman who he wants to keep, who can leave and who he would like to bring in. The financial implications thereof do not bear thinking about in the current climate. We are a threadbare club and need to keep a tight hold on the purse strings. Love him or hate him (and I think he is still doing a reasonable job) Evans remaining will always be the best and most logical answer, unless of course some stinking rich (secret supporter) decides to come in with "loads of money" and the idea of taking us to the Premier league.

I'm confused about your comments on finances.

Nearly every player is out of contract in the summer so a new manager has a virtual blank canvas.

Have i misunderstood you?

 

[Trashbat]

The only difference I would make to that statement is Scally if he still has faith in Evans has a fairly good record of keeping managers. In the current climate there is a chance that the chairman you know and let's assume trust's is better than the unknown unless we are talking of major funding difference.Scally has got the advantage of having nobody else pulling strings etc. But the negative of that is there is no other source of funding so if the is a bid that Scally is asked to match he probably can't. I would think the best chance of keeping Evans is on a short term deal that suits both sides.

PS only has a good record of keeping managers because nobody else has wanted them.

TP / PT both left when other clubs came knocking.

 

[chris who]

PS only has a good record of keeping managers because nobody else has wanted them.

TP / PT both left when other clubs came knocking.

Fair point maybe I should have written not sacking managers.

 

[alex_farrells_left_peg]

What make you think that a new manager would necessary mean spending more money ? Evans squads largely will have to be rebuilt every season regardless of if Evans stays or not. A new manager could well be appointed with a smaller wage and budget.That could well be the case at many lower league clubs.If Scally is forced to trim the budget and the management wages.i would say it is unlikely that Evans will agree to it .But someone else will.

You have a point there, and Evans does have a reputation for chopping and changing however, those players who have regularly figured in his team would probably not end up on his chopping list whereas any new manager would lless likely to consider old regulars as being guaranteed retainers or first teamers.

Looking back at the programme from my last visit to Priestfield (Doncaster, last February), I see that Bonham, Tucker, Ogilive, and Akinde are the only players who were under contract back then and who are still playing for us now. Graham, who also played in that game is now under contract. The remaining players were either loanees or were under contract but have now left the club. Personally, I would prefer that we made less use of loan players however, in the current climate, it is logical we keep our own (contractual) costs to a bare minimum.

 

[PhilK66]

I'm interested to know who (or how many) you think we've signed in the last 5+ years, that have been "above average"?

Our signings are usually punts (that's with a "p"). Sometimes we get lucky with an Eaves or Egan. Aside from Ogilvie, I can't previously remember loanees from the likes of Arsenal, Southampton, Wolves & Celtic, not to mention picking up a youngster from Man Utd, even if it hasn't worked out.

Overall, I'm impressed with the way SE & PR have gone about business:

• They covet & tempt some classier players - Graham, Samuel, Dempsey, O'Keefe - most of whom cited the managers persistence & efforts as being a contributing factor to their signing
• They bring in seemingly cheap loans from some higher clubs, thanks to their contacts - Jones, O'Connor, Medley, Robertson (often in pairs - coincidence?)
• They balance things by bringing in some presumably cheaper players from lower levels to bolster the squad - Mellis, Bastien, MacDonald, Maghoma

At that point, we're depending on the middle category working, presumably because we have some kind of agreement in place that we'll play the loans as much as possible. We also need the latter category not to get too miffed about being signed & then not played.

I'll admit this season hasn't been as "good" as last season. BUT I'll also hold my hands up & say that I've not been there to shout encouragement from the stands!! Without doubt, that's been the single biggest difference for us this season IMO - no me, no crowd, no 'us against them', no real atmosphere. Agreed, every team is in the same boat but I reckon I could have brought a few more points our way if I was there..!

TL;DR: keep them if we can - they're the best we've had in years IMO!

I'm interested to know who (or how many) you think we've signed in the last 5+ years, that have been "above average"?

Our signings are usually punts (that's with a "p"). Sometimes we get lucky with an Eaves or Egan. Aside from Ogilvie, I can't previously remember loanees from the likes of Arsenal, Southampton, Wolves & Celtic, not to mention picking up a youngster from Man Utd, even if it hasn't worked out.


Overall, I'm impressed with the way SE & PR have gone about business:

• They covet & tempt some classier players - Graham, Samuel, Dempsey, O'Keefe - most of whom cited the managers persistence & efforts as being a contributing factor to their signing
• They bring in seemingly cheap loans from some higher clubs, thanks to their contacts - Jones, O'Connor, Medley, Robertson (often in pairs - coincidence?)
• They balance things by bringing in some presumably cheaper players from lower levels to bolster the squad - Mellis, Bastien, MacDonald, Maghoma

At that point, we're depending on the middle category working, presumably because we have some kind of agreement in place that we'll play the loans as much as possible. We also need the latter category not to get too miffed about being signed & then not played.

I'll admit this season hasn't been as "good" as last season. BUT I'll also hold my hands up & say that I've not been there to shout encouragement from the stands!! Without doubt, that's been the single biggest difference for us this season IMO - no me, no crowd, no 'us against them', no real atmosphere. Agreed, every team is in the same boat but I reckon I could have brought a few more points our way if I was there..!

TL;DR: keep them if we can - they're the best we've had in years IMO!

Fair point maybe I should have written not sacking managers.

I thought TP left for other reasons!

 

[alex_farrells_left_peg]

I'm confused about your comments on finances.

Nearly every player is out of contract in the summer so a new manager has a virtual blank canvas.

Have i misunderstood you?

To be honest @wxgill, it is difficult to keep up with which players contract ends when. If they all run out at the end the end of this season, then we are in big troubles for next season - assuming, of course, there is a next season.

 

[chris who]

I'm confused about your comments on finances.

Nearly every player is out of contract in the summer so a new manager has a virtual blank canvas.

Have i misunderstood you?

I think AlexFLP has assumed that any new manager would want a bigger budget. Only think stopping that assumption is financially it simply isn't going to happen. Next season will be tighter than this for a lot of clubs including Gillingham.With no revenue to fall back on as we are unlikely to see a return of fans before the end of the season the clubs will be totally dependent on season ticket sales .Given Scally's past record of looking after season ticket holders and making sure they get a fantastic deal it is hard to see increase in sales .Many will want to wait to see what is on offer as regards will they be allowed in?Will we have a squad of league one players and who will be the manager? So it is catch 22 Especially if Evans plays hard ball if he insists on the same budget and wages it will be tough to see Scally being able to offer that.

 

[Baghdad_Rob]

Our signings are usually punts (that's with a "p"). Sometimes we get lucky with an Eaves or Egan. Aside from Ogilvie, I can't previously remember loanees from the likes of Arsenal, Southampton, Wolves & Celtic, not to mention picking up a youngster from Man Utd, even if it hasn't worked out.

Last decade pre-Evan's era, other players signed or loaned from Premier League teams (as they were at the time):

Connor Ogilvie* (Spurs)
Paul Konchesky (Leicester)
Rory Donnelly (Swansea)
John Egan (Sunderland)
Josh Pritchard (Fulham)
Bradley Garmston (West Brom)
Gazzeniga (Valencia**)
Jordan Houghton (Chelsea)
George Williams (Fulham)
Oli Lee (West Ham)***
Ryan Innis (Crystal Palace)

Maybe outside the decade pre-Evans but Andy Barcham (Spurs), Franck Nouble (West Ham)

There are a few other players who I vaguely remember as probably coming from a Premier League side (usually teams like Fulham) but I can't quite picture their names to google to check. I think when we signed Jaime O'Hara, Fulham had recently been in the Premier League but he was technically at a Championship side when he signed for us. Were Fulham Premier League when Stefan Payne signed?

On the whole we've signed a decent amount of players from Premier League clubs under the Scally era (quite a lot from Charlton when they were Premier League early days) as well as players like Lee Mathews (Leeds) and Antony Scazzamodo (or whatever his name was from Arsenal). Who was the West Ham striker who got West Ham kicked out of the cup as he was cup tied due to already playing a match for us?? Ashikodi was at Premier League West Ham at the time.

Willock is not the first Man United to player to play for us. We did sign a striker on loan from them I think around the Frank Nouble / Simeon Jackson era who was a small, nippy striker who won us a penalty on his debut (if I remember correctly). I think he signed for Watford the following year. Name slips me by. Edit: Fabien Brandy in the 2009 - 2010 season



* Originally signed by Lovell
** added as La Liga is on par with the Premier League
*** the first time around

 

[alex_farrells_left_peg]

Last decade pre-Evan's era, other players signed or loaned from Premier League teams (as they were at the time):

Connor Ogilvie* (Spurs)
Paul Konchesky (Leicester)
Rory Donnelly (Swansea)
John Egan (Sunderland)
Josh Pritchard (Fulham)
Bradley Garmston (West Brom)
Gazzeniga (Valencia**)
Jordan Houghton (Chelsea)
George Williams (Fulham)
Oli Lee (West Ham)***
Ryan Innis (Crystal Palace)

Maybe outside the decade pre-Evans but Andy Barcham (Spurs), Franck Nouble (West Ham)

There are a few other players who I vaguely remember as probably coming from a Premier League side (usually teams like Fulham) but I can't quite picture their names to google to check. I think when we signed Jaime O'Hara, Fulham had recently been in the Premier League but he was technically at a Championship side when he signed for us. Were Fulham Premier League when Stefan Payne signed?

On the whole we've signed a decent amount of players from Premier League clubs under the Scally era (quite a lot from Charlton when they were Premier League early days) as well as players like Lee Mathews (Leeds) and Antony Scazzamodo (or whatever his name was from Arsenal). Who was the West Ham striker who got West Ham kicked out of the cup as he was cup tied due to already playing a match for us?? Ashikodi was at Premier League West Ham at the time.

Willock is not the first Man United to player to play for us. We did sign a striker on loan from them I think around the Frank Nouble / Simeon Jackson era who was a small, nippy striker who won us a penalty on his debut (if I remember correctly). I think he signed for Watford the following year. Name slips me by.



* Originally signed by Lovell
** added as La Liga is on par with the Premier League
*** the first time around

Febian Brandy I think