Interesting last sentence Alex. Substitute my brother for your sister and I've had exactly the same experience. He's now decided he's always been Australian, along with the 'all things Oz good, all things Pom bad' attitude. He really winds my family up.
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GillsBluenose
Vital Football Hero
I agree that it is all about interpretation and emphasis as well as the timing, really.
Personally, I do not see the purpose of taking a knee in front of a crowd or on nationwide television unless you are generally trying to send a message to your whole captive audience, the majority of which have caused you no harm and wish you well.
I personally see no evidence of Raheem Sterling, Marcus Rashford and Lewis Hamilton, for example, being robbed of livelihood, identity or home. The colour their skin clearly has not held them back.
On the contrary, their opportunities have been substantially increased, and their life has been made a lot easier, since the days of substantially less rewarded and more abused Clyde Best, Ade Coker and Cyrille Regis.
What irritates me is when a sector of society, be it women, BAME or LGBT, start a "them against us movement" criticising inequality and, at least subconsciously, demanding positive discrimination in their favour.
Of course, BAME want to point out the low amount of black managers but heavy forbid anyone discuss the higher than average number of highly rewarded black players, as percentage of population.
Of course, Carrie Gracie and Samira Ahmed were insistent about bringing pay discrimination cases against the BBC, but probably would not want to be quoted on their opinion of the fact Zoe Ball now earns three times the pay of Ken Bruce on Radio 2, despite actually having a reducing number of listeners.
Still, I suppose heterosexual white males never have problems, misfortunes or worries and have never suffered any injustices and never been bullied during the history of time.
jogills
Vital Football Hero
I am an elderly white male, sometimes unhappy, mostly content after all these years. I don't feel oppressed, I don't feel threatened, or accused by the actions and demands of others. I don't see any reason why people with an audience and a platform should not use it to promote the cause of those less privileged. Their acquired privilege is due to talent and application and if anything it reflects well on them that they seek to improve their world.
I can't be sure what you think but your last post reads as if you look out on the world looking for challenge and invent it where it doesn't exist. I don't stride the world representing white, old men and feel no reason to defend, or attack that demographic. I do lok out and see prejudice sometimes overt, sometimes covert, sometimes intended, sometimes not. I think it's reasonable to acknowledge that and seek to move the dial.
I can't be sure what you think but your last post reads as if you look out on the world looking for challenge and invent it where it doesn't exist. I don't stride the world representing white, old men and feel no reason to defend, or attack that demographic. I do lok out and see prejudice sometimes overt, sometimes covert, sometimes intended, sometimes not. I think it's reasonable to acknowledge that and seek to move the dial.
GillsBluenose
Vital Football Hero
That is partly right. Like you, on balance I have nothing to complain about and it is true that I look to challenge things and come to my own conclusions but the invention thing is wide of the mark, IMO.
On the contrary, what I like to do is question where I see what I regard as mass hypnosis and hysteria as well as "right on" bandwagon jumping.
Going back to the Marcus Rashford example, I regard him as nice quiet man who faced a poor upbringing and many challenges. He is also a talented footballer. I have no dislike of him at all. I just do not see what he has done that is so monumental or that makes him a saint or even worthy of a knighthood that I have seen some people propose.
I have however pointed out the following, in the interest of balance, and I am happy for you to explain where you are CERTAIN I am so incorrect:
1. Due to being an athlete, he has long periods of rest, recovery and injury and therefore a lot of spare time on his hands.
2. Like most footballers, he uses a lot of his idle time using his thumbs on Social Media.
3, He used his high profile Social Media account to call upon the Government to fund school meals, even during school holidays. A cause close to his heart but not something done during normal times. That original post probably took him about five minutes to compile and post.
4. The Government can not fund anything as it does not have any money of its own. It only has access to Taxpayer money, and the ability to borrow funds that the ordinary Taxpayer will have to pay back.
5. Regarding personal appearances to back his cause, I have still only seen that oft repeated photo call where he transfers one box of fruit from one car to the other. Nothing else.
6. I have seen no evidence of personal philanthropy on his part. Of actually thinking about kids that are now in the position that he was in and putting his hand in his own pocket. He may have done. Who knows? But it is open to question at present. That is my point. In fact, someone on here suggested that he is using a legal tax avoidance scheme in respect of his image rights.
As I say, I just believe in an open mind and balance, rather than just jumping on the bus with the most popular kids at the time, whether their view is correct or not.
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jogills
Vital Football Hero
I am not aware of ever asking for Rashford to be knighted, or honoured in any way. He has a high profile and anything he says or does is overhyped in either direction, that comes with the territory. I can't see anything bbut good coming from what he has done and any public money is as much his to spend hypothetically, as it is for anyone else. The government is heavily influenced by big intereasts, think tanks and lobbyists so all power to any individual that has a go.
I have no wish to point out where you are certainly wrong. I genuinely wonder why you are so churlish towards him and his efforts. Your arguments appear to me to exclude any allowance for others to campaign for change. In my opinion it's nothing to do with an attack on my identity, position, or interests and I'm not bound to join in. I might object if I thought the campaign plumb wrong, or that it involved an unwarranted attack on me.
Reminds me of my family. They’re immigrants to the UK but hate foreigners.
All of them voted Brexit because they believe that all those horrible immigrants are ruining the country.
What’s more, they own a holiday home in the EU. Visit frequently, always complain that the locals don’t speak English.
You couldn’t make it up!!! Can’t choose your family.
chris who
Vital Champions League
There are some very sad people.You just can't argue with people like that because they have no logic what so ever.
Jerryattrick
Vital Football Hero
They do have logic and its a normal human condition whether it annoys us or not. Humans are wired for survival and part of that is the need for belonging to a protective gang or community.
shotshy
Vital Champions League
They don’t have a holiday home in the EU, they have a holiday home in a European country. The EU is not a country.
It’s a political and trade bloc.
It’s ridiculous that they complain about the locals not speaking English. They should try to learn the language.
It’s possible that they find your views and opinions as abhorrent as you find theirs.
Everyone is right
Everyone is wrong
GillsBluenose
Vital Football Hero
I respect your views jogills and, don't get me wrong, I was not arguing against anything you personally have said and recognise that many will agree with your views.
I am just using the Rashford issue as an example. I would not be surprised if the man himself was more than a little embarrassed by those who use ever increasing platitudes about a campaign that only links back to a bunch of social media posts, some of which were only retweeting other peoples posts that were sent to him.
Let's face it, he has hardly been as "hands on" or as tireless as Bob Geldof in physically getting anything organised, has he?
And yet you get SrAlex, for one, spouting stuff like "what he has achieved in the last few months is quite astonishing, how he has helped the people in need":
Alex Ferguson pays emotional tribute to Rashford over poverty campaign (punditarena.com)
Do you really think that is proportional?
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GillsBluenose
Vital Football Hero
Received an MBE last month, plus:
Fans demand Marcus Rashford knighthood after inspiring child poverty campaign - Mirror Online
Apparently he "inspires" so that is enough. Means more than money or action.
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The pledge
Vital Reserves Team
usa created wars for oil and paedophilia, the dleep state revolves around young kids being captured, tortured and raped by mainly white people. although the scandal over here of grooming gangs is disgusting it is nothing compared to what happens amongst the satanic deep state
Archiepoptart
Vital 1st Team Regular
Hilarious
jogills
Vital Football Hero
I reckon Rashford knows what he has done is not hard work, or extraordinarily noble but he has used what power he has to the good in my opinion. I probably give him more credit than you do but that's fluff. I would credit him with more intelligence and humility than footballers are generally given credit for. He's not alone in that regard, just more famous.
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Can I just say I've thoroughly enjoyed following the debate between Jo and GBN. Many excellent points from both which I've been able to relate to. Also some clear divergences but debating at it's best with mutual respect and no knee jerk resorting to labelling and name calling. Thank you gents.
GillsBluenose
Vital Football Hero
Thanks, ffsgills. I have enjoyed it as well.
Actually, digressing a little, jogills last post got me thinking about this modern trend of "influencers" through their profile which I believe usually starts from social media or through You tube.
To be fair to Marcus Rashford, I am pretty certain that he was not trying to become an influencer as such, but I wonder if anyone could enlighten an old gimmer like me about how that works as it seems to be almost like a snowball effect.
A fairly obvious example seems to be Gemma Collins, who started in TOWIE but she was never an actress as she was only asked to play herself. She has never acted in anything else but seems to have forged a career in being very bad in many celebrity versions of popular shows.
She is pretty ordinary looking and overweight - you could probably throw a net over the Pentagon Centre at any one time and trap several similar women - but something seems to have made her worthy of constant mentions in every form of media. Does she have the greatest agent ever?
She now apparently wants to described as a "diva" - wtf is that all about?
Anyway, you can probably tell that I am bored and grumpy.
Actually, digressing a little, jogills last post got me thinking about this modern trend of "influencers" through their profile which I believe usually starts from social media or through You tube.
To be fair to Marcus Rashford, I am pretty certain that he was not trying to become an influencer as such, but I wonder if anyone could enlighten an old gimmer like me about how that works as it seems to be almost like a snowball effect.
A fairly obvious example seems to be Gemma Collins, who started in TOWIE but she was never an actress as she was only asked to play herself. She has never acted in anything else but seems to have forged a career in being very bad in many celebrity versions of popular shows.
She is pretty ordinary looking and overweight - you could probably throw a net over the Pentagon Centre at any one time and trap several similar women - but something seems to have made her worthy of constant mentions in every form of media. Does she have the greatest agent ever?
She now apparently wants to described as a "diva" - wtf is that all about?
Anyway, you can probably tell that I am bored and grumpy.
Ah mate, I'm no youngster so I find it a bit confusing as well. But FWIW this is my take on it. Gemma Collins is good at one thing and that is self promotion and the more successful she is at that, the more others want a part of it . It's a modern phenomenon and I would point at the contestants on 'The Apprentice' as more jaw dropping, toe curling examples. Although some of them claim to already be successful businesspeople, I do find that hard to believe. I think influencers are the product of social media in all it's forms, which has intensified all aspects of life. But are they actually any different to personalities in our youth who advertised stuff they never used but influenced a generation? It's just done at a much faster pace these days. It's progress and its inevitable we will get left behind. I often find myself mulling over the modern use of language and how youngsters are trashing it. Then I remind myself that everything continues to evolve and that we played a part in that, in our day, and that it's right and proper. Even if we have to grit our teeth sometimes!
Sturdy Gill
Vital Squad Member
Brilliant love that.
I would also say “very British” with the non English speakers in their own Country.
something out of the 1960s attitude to life maybe
jokerman
Vital Football Hero
There's more information and it is experienced instantly and more intensely because it is often visual rather than textual. But it has a very short life and is often devalued. Take the way younger people exchange insults, but say "people just talk; no big deal" -yo' momma smackdowns etc. Take Trump's nuclear threats to North Korea. Time was, that kind of talk would have precipitated a major world crisis. Clinton did it first talking about flattening Teheran when chasing the Democratic nomination. But no one takes it that consequentially these days.
Of course, we hear about people actually getting hurt by online bullying -suicides- but even that "issue" is part of the great magnification and intensification of everything, surfacing one week and replaced by something else for people to react to the week after. Plus we'd like to know when Trump means it, and when it's just talk. But I think the new protocols are already evolving about when to take things seriously and when not. In his case, the distinction between White House and personal Twitter accounts.
I think we are losing something in subtlety and nuance of communication, and that the loss is important. But a Welsh poet said exactly the same thing to me years ago about the consequences of English replacing Welsh in Wales, and all I could do was shrug my shoulders. Now it's my turn to complain and others, usually younger, to shrug.
