That's a Moura | Vital Football

That's a Moura

muttley

Alert Team
Interesting comments from Clinton Morrison on Radio 5 this week....

Clinton Morrison was left unimpressed with Lucas Moura’s lack of effort during Tottenham’s FA Cup win at Wycombe on Monday, as he told BBC Radio 5 Live Sport.

The former Crystal Palace hitman shared that ‘even the subs’ were urging Moura to try harder as he failed to chase down a through ball from Carlos Vinicius in the first-half.

Moura started Tottenham’s FA Cup win against the Championship side, but he was subbed in the second half when the scoreline was 1-1.

Spurs would then go onto demolish their opponents, but Morisson was pretty critical of Moura.

“Oh my gosh,” said Morrison. “I cannot believe what I have just seen. Vinicius plays a through ball to him. Even the subs are saying to him, Harry Kane. Lucas Moura is ambling.

“He let the ball trickle out of play. He’s got to break a leg to try and keep that in and put pressure on Grimmer. You can even hear Harry Kane saying to him ‘Go on’ because he could have kept it in.”

Moura’s form since his £23 million move to Spurs in 2018 [BBC Sport] has been pretty up and down.

From one of the magical moments in Ajax to the inconsistencies in the Premier League, he is always trying to find that rhythm.

Jose Mourinho rested a number of his star men at Wycombe, so it wouldn’t be a surprise if Moura is the one making way for their home clash against Liverpool on Thursday.

This is a pretty big opportunity for Spurs to stamp their mark because if they put three points on the table, they will move into the top-four and push the champions down into sixth.
 
What's interesting is that a lot of fans had him as playing quite well in the Wycombe game. Personally, I've been worried about him for a while. We knew he switched off a lot before Jose joined but his new manager seemed to get more out of him. That was especially when we had the injury list last season. I thought he'd turned a corner.

For me, Moura has regressed this season. It seems a long time ago that he got the famous hatrick and I don't think his goals and assists stats tell a great story.
 
What's interesting is that a lot of fans had him as playing quite well in the Wycombe game. Personally, I've been worried about him for a while. We knew he switched off a lot before Jose joined but his new manager seemed to get more out of him. That was especially when we had the injury list last season. I thought he'd turned a corner.

For me, Moura has regressed this season. It seems a long time ago that he got the famous hatrick and I don't think his goals and assists stats tell a great story.

Can only agree. He's a passenger with little end product in most games, not even sure he's a decent squad player anymore.
 
Just looked back on what my immediate thoughts were on him after the HW game:


"Moura - tried hard, too little effect most of the time, he is another whose decision making is pretty poor. We really need to move him on."

At least I was consistent lol!
 
No mention of his assist for Bale. ?

Rather than look at one game, I managed to pull some stats.

Wikipedia has him as 135 appearances and 29 goals, with a career tally of 492 and 108.

A little more detail from Soccernet. He's started 91 games for Spurs and scored 28 goals and got 13 assists.

The 2 sites clearly contradict by 1 goal, but good enough for government work.

We are talking about a guy that seems to struggle to provide assists to team mates and is somewhere between a 1 in 4 and a 1 in 5 in goalscoring over an entire career. That means that he has to add value to the setup in different ways than these 2 core stats.
 
Rather than look at one game, I managed to pull some stats.

Wikipedia has him as 135 appearances and 29 goals, with a career tally of 492 and 108.

A little more detail from Soccernet. He's started 91 games for Spurs and scored 28 goals and got 13 assists.

The 2 sites clearly contradict by 1 goal, but good enough for government work.

We are talking about a guy that seems to struggle to provide assists to team mates and is somewhere between a 1 in 4 and a 1 in 5 in goalscoring over an entire career. That means that he has to add value to the setup in different ways than these 2 core stats.
muttley I might be being plain thick here, but your figures played 91, involved in 41 goals, approx' 41%, is that classed as poor or simply not good enough for us.

I like him as a player, oh and yes my biggest fault with him is his to slow thinking process/decision making, thus running into dark alley's, surely that can be coached out of him.
 
muttley I might be being plain thick here, but your figures played 91, involved in 41 goals, approx' 41%, is that classed as poor or simply not good enough for us.

I like him as a player, oh and yes my biggest fault with him is his to slow thinking process/decision making, thus running into dark alley's, surely that can be coached out of him.

lol - got me scratching my head :-)

I guess if all those goals and assists were in the games he started (91) then 41% would be right. However he has another 44 appearances from the subs bench where some of those goals and assists came from. That takes it down to 30% which isn't exactly fair as he could have only got 5 mins at the end of the game. Hence the head scratching. Using the same logic, his 13 assists amount to one in every 7 starts or 1 in every 10 appearances. That seems very poor to me.

Would it be unreasonable to aspire for 15 goals and 10 assists a season from whoever gets that 3rd attackers shirt behind Kane and Son? That's what Moura, Bergwijn, Bale etc are fighting for.

As for coaching Moura, he is 28 now. He hasn't managed to play with his head up and with great decision making yet in his career so can he start doing it now? I'd like to think so because he is one of those great guys that you want to do well. He can get you off your seat, just like he did to me at Old Trafford when we were singing "you're getting fired in the morning" to their manager after his fantastic performance. Now I wonder who that was? :-)
 
There is no doubting he is a squad player, so, is he good enough for that. ?

Afraid I haven't thought so for a while now, he's another that tries hard but just doesn't make an impact in the games that really matter now and shows very little end product for his efforts, it makes me feel gloomy how few players we have that can drop a shoulder, or step inside on the wing and loses the defence scares them when he does and I'm afraid he is another one that just can't excel in the role he has.

On the plus side, he works hard and can jump high and every so often he'd do more than just get subbed.
 
lol - got me scratching my head :-)

I guess if all those goals and assists were in the games he started (91) then 41% would be right. However he has another 44 appearances from the subs bench where some of those goals and assists came from. That takes it down to 30% which isn't exactly fair as he could have only got 5 mins at the end of the game. Hence the head scratching. Using the same logic, his 13 assists amount to one in every 7 starts or 1 in every 10 appearances. That seems very poor to me.

Would it be unreasonable to aspire for 15 goals and 10 assists a season from whoever gets that 3rd attackers shirt behind Kane and Son? That's what Moura, Bergwijn, Bale etc are fighting for.

As for coaching Moura, he is 28 now. He hasn't managed to play with his head up and with great decision making yet in his career so can he start doing it now? I'd like to think so because he is one of those great guys that you want to do well. He can get you off your seat, just like he did to me at Old Trafford when we were singing "you're getting fired in the morning" to their manager after his fantastic performance. Now I wonder who that was? :-)
muttley, thanks and yes I agree, when figures are put with the extra 44 subs appearances, it does seem very poor at 30%, you have my head scratching even more now, because I like the fella, what to do.
 
Not a spurs player for me tbh. Thanks for the CL etc but he is a headless chicken in a position where we need more. His pace and headers are welcome but far too often his pace gets him into positions where his ability completely fcuks it up for us. He is someone who really could do with some coaching on the benefits on giving a damn about his end product because he has all the tools to be a very dangerous player but he isnt in 80% of the games he plays. He only gets on the pitch because he is high press, wins headers he shouldnt and is able to relieve pressure. Thats not good enough for me
 
Not a spurs player for me tbh. Thanks for the CL etc but he is a headless chicken in a position where we need more. His pace and headers are welcome but far too often his pace gets him into positions where his ability completely fcuks it up for us. He is someone who really could do with some coaching on the benefits on giving a damn about his end product because he has all the tools to be a very dangerous player but he isnt in 80% of the games he plays. He only gets on the pitch because he is high press, wins headers he shouldnt and is able to relieve pressure. Thats not good enough for me

So apart from being surprisingly good in the air, being quick, a good presser and interceptor , having good stamina, being two footed , not bad at corners and free kicks, being a goal threat and assistor and not being an injury table regular, he hasn't got much to offer !!

I mean what did the Roman's ever do for us anyway ?.
 
So apart from being surprisingly good in the air, being quick, a good presser and interceptor , having good stamina, being two footed , not bad at corners and free kicks, being a goal threat and assistor and not being an injury table regular, he hasn't got much to offer !!

I mean what did the Roman's ever do for us anyway ?.

Good point well put :-)

What i was trying to say is WITH ALL THAT, he still doesnt produce anything of real substance

He wins header - Brilliant but they are headless chicken headers....they could go anywhere

He is quick - Brilliant, but he will beat a man and then fail to pass it to a team mate. He may beat 2 men, but again he will fail to do anything with it

He is a good presser - Brilliant and probably the biggest reason he is making the team at the moment. Jose needs someone to fill in for Kane not pressing enough.

He has good stamina - Well ok brilliant but so what.

Its all just a bit non productive for me. I welcome him around the team as a squad filler but he is stealing minutes from players i think could develop or recapture form which would offer much more. Its a bit like sissoko. He is so limited in what he does but we are not brave enough or we dont have the quality alternatives to be able to say he shouldnt be playing for spurs. I believe its injuries (LeCelso) and form of other players which will eventually consign players like Moura and sissoko to the subs bench long term
 
Simple.

He is a player that excels in a system that takes best advantage of his strengths (Duh), and Jose's is not that.

Put him in the 18 with Klopp's PissBoyz and you'd see a totally different, and potentially devastating player.

Some guys are more adaptable with playing systems than others, like Kane seems ridiculously adaptable, whereas Lucas does not.

At his age, he'd be best in the Prem as an impact type sub, but could be very effective as a regular starter in Italy, France, or Spain.

Awesome individual person. super likeable guy, and funny as hell.

I got nothin bad to say about him, other than he's not a fit for Jose.

Jose out.

.
 
Good point well put :-)

What i was trying to say is WITH ALL THAT, he still doesnt produce anything of real substance

He wins header - Brilliant but they are headless chicken headers....they could go anywhere

He is quick - Brilliant, but he will beat a man and then fail to pass it to a team mate. He may beat 2 men, but again he will fail to do anything with it

He is a good presser - Brilliant and probably the biggest reason he is making the team at the moment. Jose needs someone to fill in for Kane not pressing enough.

He has good stamina - Well ok brilliant but so what.

Its all just a bit non productive for me. I welcome him around the team as a squad filler but he is stealing minutes from players i think could develop or recapture form which would offer much more. Its a bit like sissoko. He is so limited in what he does but we are not brave enough or we dont have the quality alternatives to be able to say he shouldnt be playing for spurs. I believe its injuries (LeCelso) and form of other players which will eventually consign players like Moura and sissoko to the subs bench long term

I was having a bit of fun but making a point at the same time. How good do you need to be to be a squad player. ? I think he is good enough to have in our ranks at the moment.
 
I guess the plot thickens when you start asking yourself what might have happened if another player had played Moura's 860 mins on the pitch. Take Gedson as an example. Throw him in that right channel and let him use his boundless energy to get involved. Would he beat a passing accuracy of 72%? Would he have more or less assists and goals? Would he play with his head up or his head down? Would he flatter to deceive to the point where fans question whether he is worthy of the 20 man match day squad?

Well Gedson doesn't even get the opportunity to show his skills.