Match Thread, Swansea v Forest, who cares? | Page 16 | Vital Football

Match Thread, Swansea v Forest, who cares?

I don’t very often agree with Paz, but....
Im suprised i say much you cant agree with. All i really say in general is the players are shit, the transfer policy is a scandal, the owners a waste of space and the managers are negative and boring. Whats to disagree with?
 

Daniel Taylor
@DTathletic


Replying to
@Paul_2673

@loose_tip
and
@DavidJo05034174
They told me: - new state-of-art training ground - Champs Lg facilities in 5 years - playing in Europe in 5 years - Miracle Gates (announced Sep ‘17) to go up straight away - club would act in all cases ‘with values of old school Arsenal’ I’m a fool, genuinely. I believed it.

All unicorns. Get it right on the pitch first, otherwise its a farce. When it comes to the 'pitch' I still prefer Fawaz
 
Torn. Stylistically I was never going to enjoy his football, we've possibly made some small advances of late (ignoring today) but we're still not remotely at the level of the first half of last season. Tbf most of these signings aren't his, recruitment has been disjointed (being polite) and I do suspect there is a dysfunctional culture at the club which makes his job far harder.

I also don't think that sacking managers regularly is anything but an expensive waste of time. So unless a top manager suddenly fancies getting us our 3rd star then barring disasters we suck it up and hope he can improve things until Christmas next year.

Very similar to me. I don’t think it helps that I’m struggling to warm to Hughton generally.

Sometimes after an awful result and performance (even if it makes zero difference to players or performance on the pitch), you just want the manager to come out and call it what it was just so there’s comfort in the fact that they recognize how dreadful and unacceptable it was as much as the fans do.

Billy Davies was quite good at that - his sides away from home during a spell were dreadful but I felt like he called a spade a spade, which does give fans confidence that they at least recognize the problem.

I’m not necessarily advocating Hughton slating all his players, but I’ve never listened to him after a game and thought “yep, he gets it - he’s the guy to turn this around”. His post match comments might and probably are totally irrelevant to how he coaches his teams and the results on the pitch, but as a fan it’s all we have to go off when performances are as bad as they are today, and it’s difficult not to feel like he’s just a bit of a Dougie Freedman and not right for us.

Like you, I hate the idea of sacking yet another manager and was desperate for Lamouchi to keep his job after the stoke game to give him time to build on what was generally a positive season.
I was also a huge fan of Hughton - disgracefully under appreciated for what he did for Brighton and thought he’d be perfect for us.

However there’s not a single thing to cling to in his 3 or so months in charge - we look a worse outfit in every department and you can’t really blame it on a poor squad.

Completely agree he hasn’t signed his own players and no doubt that’s a huge factor, but equally everybody knows that if you were to draft this team up on paper pre season for whichever football club, you’d be putting it top 6 at least.

That doesn’t mean he should have us flying, because we know football does not work like that, but I’d expect us to have the foundations of an identity and at least get a bit of a tune from these players, because regardless of whether you can create an entire squad of your own, a mangers job is to get the best out of what he has and what he has is not bad at all. The reason managers create their own pedigree is through their ability to over perform against the circumstances they’ve been presented, and Hughton has in my opinion done the absolute opposite.

On reflection, he needs to stay and do his thing in the summer, but he should not be exempt from blame, nor should job security be a given if he doesn’t pull us away from danger in the coming weeks.
 
I get that some people are nice, I mean seriously, some of us are empathic and compassionate and get to like managers, be it Kranky or Mon, or SL or CH. But CH's record is probably the worst of them all and when we are ruthless with others Im not sure why we should take heart from Hughton's essentially half a season already.

Theres several managers where results werent necassarily great but we could see progress, could see what the manager was trying to do, Kranky gave us an identity, SL was a good organiser but short of ideas in the final third, both of them had us top ten through being consistent, even Pearce was gung ho and had us up there til we lost our best players.

Its all been said by me already, but what players has he improved, what areas of the pitch are better now, considering despite all the shit squad, he still has far more options than the previous managers. Not realy tried 2 up top or 3 at the back or no holding midfielders or a game where we cross early every time or a game where we just play two touch footie or a game where we play for free kicks and have a good free kick taker, there literally nothing at all.

So basically the same folk who say keep CH are likely the same folk who were saying keep SL despite the fact he should have gone months before because we saw on the pitch what we are seeing now. Hed ran out of ideas
 
I think it's fair to point out that prior to this pathetic display we'd had a pretty good run, a bit short but still a distinct improvement. After reading this match thread though it's apparent that the inclusion of a few different players has made a vital difference and we're back to square one. Ch is now useless again, our owner has no clue, and the club is going downhill fast. Not much mention of the coach inheriting a load of players who look as though they're incapable of giving their best for 90 minutes. I don't know who invented the term "you can't polish a turd" but I think it fits many of the players we have signed recently. And at the moment our coach is stuck with them. In addition we don't see the players on the training pitch. So far we have gained nothing much by changing managers and as for our scouting system, the less said the better. Any manager needs time on the job to effect a change and that means at least two seasons and also an input as to who gets signed.
I'd like to see CH get a proper chance.
 
Dont think so
I was thinking the same.

The only one I'm not sure about is Wycombe, not sure if that was televised. If not then I don't think we have won a single televised game all season.

Was Bristol city or Huddersfield televised last season? Or was that ifollow? Again, if not then it might be that Cardiff away in February was our last televised win
 
I was thinking the same.

The only one I'm not sure about is Wycombe, not sure if that was televised. If not then I don't think we have won a single televised game all season.

Was Bristol city or Huddersfield televised last season? Or was that ifollow? Again, if not then it might be that Cardiff away in February was our last televised win

My memory is shit but i think thats right. Jeez it feels like an age ago
 
Don’t blame sky. We are just as awful when not televised. Blame the system of playing workhorses in midfield. Yes we have to win midfield but not at the expense of defence, the wings and any form of attack. Go to three at the back. Mbe Soh in the middle of a back three who can step forward in to midfield when required. Two fullbacks who will go forward, knowing they are covered and push on to the line thus stretching oppositions defence. 5 in midfield thus matching the opposition or occasionally outnumbering. Two wide men, who know they have a wingback outside them and therefore can play closer to striker and cut in. An attacking midfielder who can run channels either side of striker knowing he has four midfielders behind them.

A mindset that is we can win midfield, push opposition on to their own 25 yard line and make chances both wide and thru the middle.

A mindset that stifles midfield, forcing opposition to go long, where McK. Worrall and Mbe Soh return possession.

A mindset that is we will win this game not we will bore the opposition in to a mistake and hang on.

Many teams play with three at the back and 5 in midfield and they just dominate the middle. Our three workhorse midfield are just out manoeuvred. Our strength could be a very young and able back three. It has to be worth a try? Match up Barnsley.

Cafu and Sow hold midfield, Christie and Bong push on, past respective wide men. Kriv pushes up behind striker, two wide men come narrow. Movement and quick decisive passing is key to move opposition midfield out of position. It’s the set up and slow, workhorses in midfield that is the problem. By changing the system this becomes a strength not a problem. Got to be better than the dross being served up.. even when we win we are awful. Change it CH.
 
That was a hard watch...poor performances from players and management team.

It was good to see Knockhart showing a bit of fire after his goal. The rest of them seemed to accept no responsibility out there.

From memory, I don't think Lamouchi had any of his own signings but made what he had into a team that for a large part of last season performed beyond their capabilities.

CH needs to find a way of getting the best out of these players, I don't know whether its a change of system, motivation, training or something else.

The system feels so rigid at the moment. Low block, no pace, no energy. Directing play down the wings with wingers who cant cross. Strikers being expected to hold up the ball from hit and hope 50 yard passes.

Any opposition knows exactly how we are going to play. If we don't have players with guile, maybe it needs to come from the manager?
 
I think it's fair to point out that prior to this pathetic display we'd had a pretty good run, a bit short but still a distinct improvement. After reading this match thread though it's apparent that the inclusion of a few different players has made a vital difference and we're back to square one. Ch is now useless again, our owner has no clue, and the club is going downhill fast. Not much mention of the coach inheriting a load of players who look as though they're incapable of giving their best for 90 minutes. I don't know who invented the term "you can't polish a turd" but I think it fits many of the players we have signed recently. And at the moment our coach is stuck with them. In addition we don't see the players on the training pitch. So far we have gained nothing much by changing managers and as for our scouting system, the less said the better. Any manager needs time on the job to effect a change and that means at least two seasons and also an input as to who gets signed.
I'd like to see CH get a proper chance.

that same turd was 5th at xmas last year, and its 16 players more to choose from. He's fkn clueless
 
Don’t blame sky. We are just as awful when not televised. Blame the system of playing workhorses in midfield. Yes we have to win midfield but not at the expense of defence, the wings and any form of attack. Go to three at the back. Mbe Soh in the middle of a back three who can step forward in to midfield when required. Two fullbacks who will go forward, knowing they are covered and push on to the line thus stretching oppositions defence. 5 in midfield thus matching the opposition or occasionally outnumbering. Two wide men, who know they have a wingback outside them and therefore can play closer to striker and cut in. An attacking midfielder who can run channels either side of striker knowing he has four midfielders behind them.

A mindset that is we can win midfield, push opposition on to their own 25 yard line and make chances both wide and thru the middle.

A mindset that stifles midfield, forcing opposition to go long, where McK. Worrall and Mbe Soh return possession.

A mindset that is we will win this game not we will bore the opposition in to a mistake and hang on.

Many teams play with three at the back and 5 in midfield and they just dominate the middle. Our three workhorse midfield are just out manoeuvred. Our strength could be a very young and able back three. It has to be worth a try? Match up Barnsley.

Cafu and Sow hold midfield, Christie and Bong push on, past respective wide men. Kriv pushes up behind striker, two wide men come narrow. Movement and quick decisive passing is key to move opposition midfield out of position. It’s the set up and slow, workhorses in midfield that is the problem. By changing the system this becomes a strength not a problem. Got to be better than the dross being served up.. even when we win we are awful. Change it CH.
fallin on deaf ears, ive been screaming 352 for months, its that obvious to me, seeing as we have 4 good centre halves too and they are our most valuable players, worth pretty much 20milion quid.