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US Presidential election

There’s another more chilling story that’s emerging. That Trump wanted to have the military present but not to prevent trouble but to actively be involved in halting the certification proceedings. Only Pence prevented this from happening. Perhaps we should be grateful they weren’t there and that when they arrived, they were loyal to their oath to the constitution.
He is Commander-in-Chief of US Forces.
American service men/women are Patriots by nature , and massively support him.
With 75m (many gun toting) behind him , I wouldn't write off anything happening.
America faces history in the making.
 
I think you are on much firmer ground when you argue that everything that produced Trumpism -love it or hate it- is still out there

Maybe I should have just stuck to the point you make, instead of news I'm hearing/seeing from the 'baddies'. This stuff isn't being reported on MSM.
 
There’s another more chilling story that’s emerging. That Trump wanted to have the military present but not to prevent trouble but to actively be involved in halting the certification proceedings. Only Pence prevented this from happening. Perhaps we should be grateful they weren’t there and that when they arrived, they were loyal to their oath to the constitution.

It was reported in December that Michael Flynn had said using martial law to force a new election in key swing states could be an option but not much more than that. Trump dismissed the idea at the time. I've not seen anything to suggest Trump actually intended to use the military to actually block up congress and prevent certification.

Meanwhile according to the New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/us/politics/trump-pelosi-nuclear-military.html)

If the military carried out the request Pelosi appeared to be suggesting then that would have amounted to an actual military coup.

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It was reported in December that Michael Flynn had said using martial law to force a new election in key swing states could be an option but not much more than that. Trump dismissed the idea at the time. I've not seen anything to suggest Trump actually intended to use the military to actually block up congress and prevent certification.

Meanwhile according to the New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/us/politics/trump-pelosi-nuclear-military.html)

If the military carried out the request Pelosi appeared to be suggesting then that would have amounted to an actual military coup.

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Not wise of Pelosi to invite chancers to speculate on US nuclear deterrent decision making. Ask by all means, but on the QT, not to back the case for bouncing Trump.
 
7,000 troops in Washington , the Supreme Court and Senate building barricaded.
No-one could claim they weren't prepared.
 
Cheers Bud, as I replied to Chris, I was challenging the semantics by Mr Biden and some sneering media, that overtly and broadly challenged police independence in relation to what occurred at the CB, especially as one of the officers there was killed. The strategic issues are separate and we are not likely to know what kind of pre-event planning occurred. There surely would have been some.

Lancs, read this:
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emmanuelfelton/black-capitol-police-racism-mob
 
Endless spare time, the internet and a grasshopper mind leads down some strange wormholes, which is fun if you don't take it too seriously. That's a lead in to explain that I got to thinking about rousing and affecting songs that belong to groups you might not identify with. I went on youtube and listened to Elvis Presley's American Trilogy, on to a few versions of I wish I was In Dixie and then stumbled on this:


Passionate if disturbing and perhaps not new to some of you; it made me realise that the internet is not so uniquely powerful after all. Songs like this from every political perspective have been sustaining, recruiting and resonating for a very long time. Rationality doesn't play much part and the rebel spirit can take root in the Northern States and South Yorkshire.

The rebel myth is much stronger than I realised so I went looking for US Civil War casualty figures. Original reports suggested 600,000 but modern studies make it nearer 750,000 from a population of 31M. Historical events have the half life of a radioactive isotope. Anyway for me it's a part of the answer as to why divisions in the US are so much wider and implacable than over here.

Fado music was tainted by association with the fascist regime in Portugal and a big favourite was this rather wonderful song by Amalia Rodriguez. The cafe on the corner of Balmoral Road and Gillingham road sports a rather fine portrait of her.

 


Feel for the officers, especially the two highlighted in the report - there`s no excuse for that sort of behaviour. Unfortunately, Cops up and down the USA, get that sort of treatment daily, Black officers especially. The current and apparent growing divisiveness in the US is a major concern Especially as we have a habit here of often following trends set in America.
 
Feel for the officers, especially the two highlighted in the report - there`s no excuse for that sort of behaviour. Unfortunately, Cops up and down the USA, get that sort of treatment daily, Black officers especially. The current and apparent growing divisiveness in the US is a major concern Especially as we have a habit here of often following trends set in America.

What?! Are you trying to tell me that black cops have to try to stop white cops storming government buildings up and down the US every day?!:

The officer even described coming face to face with police officers from across the country in the mob. He said some of them flashed their badges, telling him to let them through, and trying to explain that this was all part of a movement that was supposed to help.

“You have the nerve to be holding a blue lives matter flag, and you are out there fucking us up,” he told one group of protestors he encountered inside the Capitol. “[One guy] pulled out his badge and he said, ‘we’re doing this for you.’ Another guy had his badge. So I was like, ‘well, you gotta be kidding.’”

Another officer, a newer recruit, echoed these sentiments, saying that where he was on the steps to the rotunda on the east side of the Capitol, he was engaged in hand-to-hand battles trying to fight the attackers off. But he said they were outnumbered 10 to one, and described extraordinary scenes in which protesters holding Blue Lives Matter flags launched themselves at police officers.
 
What?! Are you trying to tell me that black cops have to try to stop white cops storming government buildings up and down the US every day?!:


Do you really think that`s what i`m trying to say, Bud ? I don`t think you do.

I simply chose, having read through the report, to reference the language that the black cops were faced with from a mob of angry people as they shoved and stormed their way into the CB.

I totally condemn it, though, as police officers, they`ll have been used to disgusting language hurled in their direction. It`s a daily occurrence and, believe it or not, one which the courts, especially in the UK, feel that officers should as accept as part of their job.

Don`t know what the make up of the Capitol Building invading mob was, any more than you do. And if there were marauding cops in the mob they should have known better and should be looking at the sack. I`ve said previously on here - there`s a big variance in the way police bodies in the U.S. are constituted and frankly, the differences in efficiency and effectiveness caused by that sort of compartmental infra-structure should be a concern.

I was also saying, in my reply, that everyday cops all over the US have to put up with too many angry people determined to take all their political dissatisfaction out on officers, as they are right there in the middle and easy targets. I also implied that (brave) black officers are unfairly singled out for extra abuse on a daily basis as they are seen (ridiculously) as "traitors" by some, particularly in the BLMM.
 
Do you really think that`s what i`m trying to say, Bud ? I don`t think you do.

I simply chose, having read through the report, to reference the language that the black cops were faced with from a mob of angry people as they shoved and stormed their way into the CB.

I totally condemn it, though, as police officers, they`ll have been used to disgusting language hurled in their direction. It`s a daily occurrence and, believe it or not, one which the courts, especially in the UK, feel that officers should as accept as part of their job.

Don`t know what the make up of the Capitol Building invading mob was, any more than you do. And if there were marauding cops in the mob they should have known better and should be looking at the sack. I`ve said previously on here - there`s a big variance in the way police bodies in the U.S. are constituted and frankly, the differences in efficiency and effectiveness caused by that sort of compartmental infra-structure should be a concern.

I was also saying, in my reply, that everyday cops all over the US have to put up with too many angry people determined to take all their political dissatisfaction out on officers, as they are right there in the middle and easy targets. I also implied that (brave) black officers are unfairly singled out for extra abuse on a daily basis as they are seen (ridiculously) as "traitors" by some, particularly in the BLMM.

Fair enough, mate.

Your suggestion that black officers being called 'traitors' by some is "ridiculous" is only understandable if you believe the US system and society has not been riddled with racism all the way along. Once you remember that it has, then it's easy to understand why some people might view black officers as traitors.
 
Fair enough, mate.

Your suggestion that black officers being called 'traitors' by some is "ridiculous" is only understandable if you believe the US system and society has not been riddled with racism all the way along. Once you remember that it has, then it's easy to understand why some people might view black officers as traitors.
The USA was built on slavery and revolution.
The chances of Biden doing four years is virtually nil.
 
Fair enough, mate.

Your suggestion that black officers being called 'traitors' by some is "ridiculous" is only understandable if you believe the US system and society has not been riddled with racism all the way along. Once you remember that it has, then it's easy to understand why some people might view black officers as traitors.


I say it`s ridiculous as, in general (I don`t know each and every black officer), black police officers, just like their white colleagues, join law enforcement to serve society across the board, help folk and to prevent & detect crime. Through generations, in the UK and, I believe, also in North America, it`s why the vast majority of people join the police, might sound corny, but it`s true (seriously) - ask Nobs.

Allegations that black officers are "traitors" say a lot more about the person/s making the allegation than it does about the officer and is a judgement not made on the officers integrity and moral courage, but simply and ignorantly on the basis of skin colour. That`s why it`s ridiculous. Knowing that that sort of bias is present in communities is why black officers are so highly respected by their white colleagues - despite what you might read in the papers or other agenda driven media.

You might feel that i`ve over-stretched my articles of faith, my conviction lends itself to that setting at times. Hopefully you get my gist.
 
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Endless spare time, the internet and a grasshopper mind leads down some strange wormholes, which is fun if you don't take it too seriously. That's a lead in to explain that I got to thinking about rousing and affecting songs that belong to groups you might not identify with. I went on youtube and listened to Elvis Presley's American Trilogy, on to a few versions of I wish I was In Dixie and then stumbled on this:


Passionate if disturbing and perhaps not new to some of you; it made me realise that the internet is not so uniquely powerful after all. Songs like this from every political perspective have been sustaining, recruiting and resonating for a very long time. Rationality doesn't play much part and the rebel spirit can take root in the Northern States and South Yorkshire.

The rebel myth is much stronger than I realised so I went looking for US Civil War casualty figures. Original reports suggested 600,000 but modern studies make it nearer 750,000 from a population of 31M. Historical events have the half life of a radioactive isotope. Anyway for me it's a part of the answer as to why divisions in the US are so much wider and implacable than over here.

Fado music was tainted by association with the fascist regime in Portugal and a big favourite was this rather wonderful song by Amalia Rodriguez. The cafe on the corner of Balmoral Road and Gillingham road sports a rather fine portrait of her.


Faulkner
"The past is never dead. It's not even past."

Not quite true. The emotions in politics have the same sources. They simply go around looking for forms to take. That's why we can see the cult of action -doing something- showing up on all political compass bearings and why, even if at second hand, songs on behalf of Cavaliers, Confederates, the International Brigades, the IRA, you name it, can get the pulse flickering. Do you remember in the Battle of the Bulge film, when Robert Shaw is looking over the kids they've sent him to be the spearhead of Nazi Germany's last hope. Everyone, including him, is looking miserable and worried, and then one lad strikes up "Der Panzerleid" and rallies them. Very hard not to be moved by the human situation even though it's the SS and the enemy fighting for an evil cause.

Speaking of songs, from the Times blogs
"Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside ragin'"

Not now Bob, not now.

Right now, Bob and most of us would be pretty happy if we could be sure the repressive arm of the state is going to kick into action and do its job.
 
Amazon will be booting Parler off its services tonight and in the unlikely event they can find another large hosting platform then RIP.

If you want to interact with the wide world then you will need to stick to Twitter and Facebook and stick to pro-Democrat comments or risk being branded facists and blocked.

Tweet from one of Bernie Sanders' official twitter handles. Translation: f you voted Democrat you are antifa. If you have ever defended or voted for Trump then you are pro-fascist. (Fascism is hate and hate should be banned)

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I fear we are going to see an acceleration of the deplatforming of any opinions conservative.
 
Amazon will be booting Parler off its services tonight and in the unlikely event they can find another large hosting platform then RIP.

If you want to interact with the wide world then you will need to stick to Twitter and Facebook and stick to pro-Democrat comments or risk being branded facists and blocked.

Tweet from one of Bernie Sanders' official twitter handles. Translation: f you voted Democrat you are antifa. If you have ever defended or voted for Trump then you are pro-fascist. (Fascism is hate and hate should be banned)

View attachment 45030

I fear we are going to see an acceleration of the deplatforming of any opinions conservative.

Poor translation.
 
Faulkner
"The past is never dead. It's not even past."

Not quite true. The emotions in politics have the same sources. They simply go around looking for forms to take. That's why we can see the cult of action -doing something- showing up on all political compass bearings and why, even if at second hand, songs on behalf of Cavaliers, Confederates, the International Brigades, the IRA, you name it, can get the pulse flickering. Do you remember in the Battle of the Bulge film, when Robert Shaw is looking over the kids they've sent him to be the spearhead of Nazi Germany's last hope. Everyone, including him, is looking miserable and worried, and then one lad strikes up "Der Panzerleid" and rallies them. Very hard not to be moved by the human situation even though it's the SS and the enemy fighting for an evil cause.

Speaking of songs, from the Times blogs
"Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside ragin'"

Not now Bob, not now.

Right now, Bob and most of us would be pretty happy if we could be sure the repressive arm of the state is going to kick into action and do its job.


Thank goodness for Bagpipes..