#COVID19

[Calvin Plummer]

No, no no. I didnt ever say the sacrifice made by the young is the greatest ever made in this country.

I said that the restrictions they have faced are the greatest ever imposed by any government in this country's history. This is true.

And I have tried to illustrate that the sacrifices they, as a generation, are making are far more significant than a lot of people are willing to acknowledge. Doubly so when you consider that they are going to end up paying for it the longest and probably the most severely as well.

My point is that people of our generation, and even more so the older generations, owe them gratitude and acknowledgment, not dismissal.

Absolutely. We owe them so much more too, from house prices, to pension burden, to the environment. We also owe them an NHS and lockdowns are our best hope of preserving what's left.

A properly managed pandemic would see normality return (largely) far sooner than pretending it doesn't exist.

 

[weejockmcplop]

Absolutely. We owe them so much more too, from house prices, to pension burden, to the environment. We also owe them an NHS and lockdowns are our best hope of preserving what's left.

A properly managed pandemic would see normality return (largely) far sooner than pretending it doesn't exist.

If you look across the world this is not going to happen anywhere except with a very small number of exceptions in low population density countries.
This pandemic is impossible to manage properly in a place like the UK.
I'm not saying it couldn't have been done much, much better, but at the same time even if it was I think we would still be looking at huge long periods of restrictions into this year.

 

[Lienking]

I said that the restrictions they have faced are the greatest ever imposed by any government in this country's history. This is true.

.

I respect your opinion on that , but you can only say it's true in your opinion. . In WW2 food was limited to things like one egg, two ounces of butter, two ounces of cheese etc which seems far more limiting than anything we have now. Blackouts at night too. My dad was in a reserved occupation, so he was a volunteer, but as far as I know he was sent away on a convoy to Africa and India. He wasn't 18 till 1942 , but as far as I know he spent the last three years of the war away.

Most of our more severe restrictions have so far only been for a matter of a couple of months, and even then they are relatively easy to break, if you actually want to.

 

[Forest-England]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1344706493120192515

 

[Apollyon]

I’m nearly 27 and have a 0.0005% chance of dying from this and will be burdened with paying back the deficit through huge tax rises.

If you think I’m selfish for not wanting to spend the remaining years of my 20’s locked away for a disease that will never kill me and where the average UK victim is mid 80’s, when I’ve complied by these laws for a year, then I couldn’t give a shit.

My son is your age.

WOW


PIPsheet AC

 

[Pope John XXIII]

I respect your opinion on that , but you can only say it's true in your opinion. . In WW2 food was limited to things like one egg, two ounces of butter, two ounces of cheese etc which seems far more limiting than anything we have now. Blackouts at night too. My dad was in a reserved occupation, so he was a volunteer, but as far as I know he was sent away on a convoy to Africa and India. He wasn't 18 till 1942 , but as far as I know he spent the last three years of the war away.

Most of our more severe restrictions have so far only been for a matter of a couple of months, and even then they are relatively easy to break, if you actually want to.

No, what I am saying there is a fact.

I don't want to get into WWII specifically because that is a very emotive one for many people (who mostly weren't there).

But I am telling you, that no king, no PM, no leader in history has ever said, unequivocally "you must say at home" to British subjects or citizens as a whole. There have never been restrictions on the reasons why you can leave your home. Not since the 14th century have there been prohibitions on someone leaving their local area. I cannot think of a period in which inns, restaurants, cafes or public houses have ever been nationally told they cannot open for an extended period.

This isn't remotely close to rationing, which really isn't anything new in british history; we have experienced a very light rationing ourselves given that several products were restricted in how many you could buy. Rationing is to manage shortages; it is nothing unique like the other restrictions are.

Conscription isn't anything unique to the 20th century either, but that is the most extreme example and isn't the same at all. We aren't being called to defend our nation from invaders, to preserve our culture and our way of life; our right to go to the pub, the local shops, move and work where we want, socialise how we want. Instead, we are being called to destroy our way of life, at least temporarily, to save the lives primarily of your generation and partly of mine- but not theirs.

We build cenotaphs to honour those who fought, soni don't think a bit of appreciation and respect is out of order.

 

[Will.NFFC]

Glad I don't think like you Will.

Well you wouldn’t ORF would you, you’re part of the 1% who won’t be impacted financially and are quite happy to allow the rest of the 99% of the population to be locked away to protect yourself.

You’ve been very vocal in suggesting I’m selfish for those views, but perhaps you should reflect on your own responsibility during this pandemic and perhaps think about people other than those your age.

Think it’s fair to say the young people have done a hell of a lot for your generation so far.

 

[weejockmcplop]

Well you wouldn’t ORF would you, you’re part of the 1% who won’t be impacted financially and are quite happy to allow the rest of the 99% of the population to be locked away to protect yourself.

You’ve been very vocal in suggesting I’m selfish for those views, but perhaps you should reflect on your own responsibility during this pandemic and perhaps think about people other than those your age.

Think it’s fair to say the young people have done a hell of a lot for your generation so far.

What is it exactly you think the elderly should be doing?
Dying like good old people so you can go to the pub?

 

[Will.NFFC]

I don't care in the least how cranky you are feeling ORF and you can fall out with me all you want. You get cranky if you like.

Perhaps you need to be triggered a little bit before you might actually start to understand their perspective, because from what I can see, you aren't even attempting to.

I have a daughter who is 9 and a boy who is 6. She won't ever be 9 again, and when I think of the experiences we have not been able to have it breaks my heart just as much as losing family did. She has spent nearly a year not able to play with her friends outside of school, a year of not being able to have friends over. She had over four months of not being able to see any friends, at all.
What children have had that since the evacuations? Which was only a fairly small proportion of kids in any case. And that was in aid of stopping Germans walking down our boulevards; this is to stop older people getting an illness.

When this is all over, both my generation and yours owe these young people a massive debt of gratitude and it sickens me to see anyone dismissing or denying that

Brilliantly put

 

[Will.NFFC]

What is it exactly you think the elderly should be doing?
Dying like good old people so you can go to the pub?

How about not putting comments like “glad I don’t think like you” when I suggested that I don’t want to spend the remaining years of my 20’s locked away for something that really has nothing to do with me.

It’s tragic that people are dying from this, and I don’t want to give the impression that it isn’t - I followed all the rules and reframed from too much outrage of my liberties being taken away for 8 months, but I refuse to sit here and suggest that I think it’s anything other than totally unfair that that’s expected of me for another year.

People moaning about my posts have tunnel vision on this virus and the the effects of it. My question is, what do you expect the young to do - stay in doors forever so that nobody in their 80’s ever dies again?

 

[Calvin Plummer]

What is it exactly you think the elderly should be doing?
Dying like good old people so you can go to the pub?

Quite.

 

[weejockmcplop]

How about not putting comments like “glad I don’t think like you” when I suggested that I don’t want to spend the remaining years of my 20’s locked away for something that really has nothing to do with me.

It’s tragic that people are dying from this, and I don’t want to give the impression that it isn’t - I followed all the rules and reframed from too much outrage of my liberties being taken away for 8 months, but I refuse to sit here and suggest that I think it’s anything other than totally unfair that that’s expected of me for another year.

People moaning about my posts have tunnel vision on this virus and the the effects of it. My question is, what do you expect the young to do - stay in doors forever so that nobody in their 80’s ever dies again?

I'm kind of in both positions (I'm still partying age but i'm also on the extremely vulnerable list) so i'm torn.
I can see where you're coming from with being angry about it. I just don't know what you mean when you talk about ORF's responsibilities. Like there's something the elderly could do to help the situation.

I would say 'yes its unfair'.
But there is no way to distribute the damage of this virus in a 'fair' way. No restrictions means more people die, the NHS is put at breaking point, and the knock on effects of that would be even more deadly than the virus.

What do you think the best way to manage this is?

 

[Calvin Plummer]

If you look across the world this is not going to happen anywhere except with a very small number of exceptions in low population density countries.
This pandemic is impossible to manage properly in a place like the UK.
I'm not saying it couldn't have been done much, much better, but at the same time even if it was I think we would still be looking at huge long periods of restrictions into this year.

Undoubtedly difficult but on numerous occasions science has been rejected by this government in favour of popularity. The lies are deeply unhelpful and have thoroughly undermined public perception. Track and trace has equally been a disaster.

Both could easily have been avoided.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

How about not putting comments like “glad I don’t think like you” when I suggested that I don’t want to spend the remaining years of my 20’s locked away for something that really has nothing to do with me.

It’s tragic that people are dying from this, and I don’t want to give the impression that it isn’t - I followed all the rules and reframed from too much outrage of my liberties being taken away for 8 months, but I refuse to sit here and suggest that I think it’s anything other than totally unfair that that’s expected of me for another year.

People moaning about my posts have tunnel vision on this virus and the the effects of it. My question is, what do you expect the young to do - stay in doors forever so that nobody in their 80’s ever dies again?

It is unfair, but less unfair than someone disregarding the rules and killing someone else.

 

[Will.NFFC]

It is unfair, but less unfair than someone disregarding the rules and killing someone else.

I haven’t disregarded rules, and continue not to. But if the consensus is for me to continue to work full time, not be allowed to let lose, see friends or family or do anything other than buy food in, which is essential for your own mental health, at what point do you expect compliance to continue to?

You work to live but people are literally either now living to work or just jobless. It’s ironic that we’re desperately trying to keep people alive just to live this life.

 

[Ingy]

My son is your age.

WOW


PIPsheet AC

Could,could Will be your son chap? This could further explain why he is so eager to get out the house chap!

 

[Calvin Plummer]

I haven’t disregarded rules, and continue not to. But if the consensus is for me to continue to work full time, not be allowed to let lose, see friends or family or do anything other than buy food in, which is essential for your own mental health, at what point do you expect compliance to continue to?

You work to live but people are literally either now living to work or just jobless. It’s ironic that we’re desperately trying to keep people alive just to live this life.

At the point where the risks of transmission are substantially lower. It's a horrid waste of youth and I'm very sorry for that. As a species I'm also sorry for our eating habits where is undoubtedly the original cause and I've played my part in that. I'm also sorry for the government that's handled this so incompetently and exasperated the situation.

I'm sorry for the last 20+ years that have left the NHS in such a perilous state that they aren't equipped for what was very basic scenario planning. I'm sorry education, mental health, care and social service have been run down to such an extent that they can only be reactive rather than proactive. That's not a criticism of anybody that works in the above, thank you, but the truth is as a society we let them down.

I'm sorry not only to the young but to the poor and minority groups that are clearly far more disadvantaged during this crisis.

It doesn't matter who you vote for either, the truth is that we've all allowed it to happen on our watch and I really am sorry.

The reality is that in 4-8 months depending on rollout and efficacy of vaccinations we can claw back a large chunk of normality. Some aspects like masks and social distancing might well remain beyond that.

I'm sorry the next few months are likely to be the worst of it yet, and all these apologies are genuine. Just please hold on.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

As an addendum, I really hope we don't just shoot for a return to 'normal'. Normal is what got us into this situation to begin with. This is an opportunity for us to think about priorities. The young, equality, quality of life, the way we treat others and the planet. All of that needs some serious thought and action.

 

[Will.NFFC]

At the point where the risks of transmission are substantially lower. It's a horrid waste of youth and I'm very sorry for that. As a species I'm also sorry for our eating habits where is undoubtedly the original cause and I've played my part in that. I'm also sorry for the government that's handled this so incompetently and exasperated the situation.

I'm sorry for the last 20+ years that have left the NHS in such a perilous state that they aren't equipped for what was very basic scenario planning. I'm sorry education, mental health, care and social service have been run down to such an extent that they can only be reactive rather than proactive. That's not a criticism of anybody that works in the above, thank you, but the truth is as a society we let them down.

I'm sorry not only to the young but to the poor and minority groups that are clearly far more disadvantaged during this crisis.

It doesn't matter who you vote for either, the truth is that we've all allowed it to happen on our watch and I really am sorry.

The reality is that in 4-8 months depending on rollout and efficacy of vaccinations we can claw back a large chunk of normality. Some aspects like masks and social distancing might well remain beyond that.

I'm sorry the next few months are likely to be the worst of it yet, and all these apologies are genuine. Just please hold on.

I don’t forgive you Calvin.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

I don’t forgive you Calvin.

I don't either.