Brexit rolls on...

[da fuq]

We were always getting a Tory government while Corbyn was Labour leader.

The whys and wherefores are largely as irrelevant as Corbyn is but he was ineffective as a leader and was seen as indecisive by the masses who were looking for clarity one way or another.

Yet we were only 2,500 votes away from a different landscape if the 5th columnists hadn't been such deceitful snidey bullying and illegal sabatours

Disgusting

 

[da fuq]

Not a chance. There’s a reason we haven’t had a left wing government for decades and that is because the voting masses don’t want it and won’t vote for it.

So we can agree Blairism was more Tory than under John Major

 

[Basha73]

Yet we were only 2,500 votes away from a different landscape if the 5th columnists hadn't been such deceitful snidey bullying and illegal sabatours

Disgusting

And yet the Tories won by 56 seats so go figure...

Dress it up and deflect however you like but Corbyn failed the voters first time round and didn’t learn from it for the second.

 

[Basha73]

So we can agree Blairism was more Tory than under John Major

Nope. If anything Blair won through being a centrist when the Tories were arguing over their identity. He presented a viable alternative that was appealing to the middle of the road voters.

 

[Basha73]

Blair was at the right stage in the cycle, just like Starmer probably is, although possibly not first time round. Blair was/is a puppet, so is Johnson, and so is Starmer.

And this is where I begin to struggle. Leaders influenced or encouraged to make certain decisions, sure. I can accept that happening but ‘puppets’ is straying toward tin hat territory for me.

 

[radfordinlondon]

Find me a quote where I have asked for anyone to be sent home ? There is a difference between that and future migration. Nearly 300,000 EU citizens NETT were migrating to the UK at it's peak. That requires the building of a city nearly the size of Nottingham every year to house them. England is the most densely populated country of any size in the EU (slightly less than Malta). We clearly can't just keep expanding our population.

Tbf not disagreeable to any of that but brexit will not solve this problem and even worse, will create additional problems.

I accept you are not asking for people to go home (although i do think there are people who would like that) and at the same time we are somewhat full.

There is no straightforward solution and the issues are complex but the conversation needed should be straightforward. Of course it hasnt with all sorts of fake news and the bitter narrative now established.

Brexit will need to be an extraordinary success if it is to outweigh the damage to social cohesion and parts of the economy.

 

[in_the_top_one]

Nope. If anything Blair won through being a centrist when the Tories were arguing over their identity. He presented a viable alternative that was appealing to the middle of the road voters.

And the tories were sleazy, which helped.

 

[in_the_top_one]

And this is where I begin to struggle. Leaders influenced or encouraged to make certain decisions, sure. I can accept that happening but ‘puppets’ is straying toward tin hat territory for me.

FFS get woke!

 

[JC21]

The 'centrists' don't seem to be doing too well at the minute (of course it's still Corbyn's fault)

https://www.survation.com/survation-political-poll-3-august-2020/

 

[radfordinlondon]

The issue the "lefties" are most bothered about is that a 20 year old now could work just as hard as you have for their entire life, make all the same good decisions you did... And end up with about 25-50% (at best) of what you have when they reach 75.

The refusal of people like yourself to acknowledge this, or care, is what causes generational conflict from their side. It is the assumption by certain people of your generation (you clearly included) that you are somehow special, that you have worked harder than other generations and consequently deserve more, that it is all your own work.

As if he generations before yours who didn't get to enjoy your kind of retirement didn't work as hard. I doubt you would have the gumption to say that, but you would about the younger generations.

Do you not think that people of your generations should work towards and show an interest in ensuring that a young person who makes all the same decisions as you and works as hard as you did will get the same benefits at the end?

If your immediate thought is "no" then congratulations; you've just discovered what "ok boomer" is all about

This.

 

[JC21]

And this is where I begin to struggle. Leaders influenced or encouraged to make certain decisions, sure. I can accept that happening but ‘puppets’ is straying toward tin hat territory for me.

And that's probably down to you never looking into it in any depth. The rich and powerful globalists create their groups like CFR, Trilateral Commission, Chatham House, Bilderberg, etc and then some members of these, such as Zbigniew Brzezinski , Kissinger, Wolfowitz, Cheney, etc go into government and carry out the policies from the groups

 

[radfordinlondon]

I think that it's not just what you earn, but how you spend it. Recently retired, I've never earned anything like the money that, say, a teacher would be on.
Forty odd years ago, when I got married we saved for a few years for a deposit on a house and made do with bits of furniture that was second hand. Whenever we had anything it was because we grafted for it. Seven days a week and the wife working in a care home whilst I looked after our son in the evening.
Anyone who suggests that the boomer generation have somehow had it easy is obviously delusional.

You have been told before but it's worth restating [the boomer generation] never had it so good [relatively to current generations].

People are repeating all of the things you describe but the parameters have changed. At the most basic, although people earn more money than 2 shillings and sixpence a week; house prices have risen many times more.

The essence of what pope is saying is that younger generations can be just as thrifting, hard working and conscientious but get less than previous generations. This is where the rub lies.

 

[in_the_top_one]

They would do better if they were not being undermined, and sued, by traitorous rotters in their own party!

The 'centrists' don't seem to be doing too well at the minute (of course it's still Corbyn's fault)

https://www.survation.com/survation-political-poll-3-august-2020/

 

[radfordinlondon]

The pay rates are clearly adjusted for cost of living, which includes house prices etc so that's irrelevant. I feel sorry for anyone in London, but round here you can still get a decent house for £130k, which should be easily achievable for two people on a normal pay level.

This is your famous economist skills coming out again. Wages and house prices correlate in different areas but they are not linked and both are affected by many other variables. The basic premise holds that in real terms, we have been going backwards since the financial crash of 2010

 

[Pope John XXIII]

You have been told before but it's worth restating [the boomer generation] never had it so good [relatively to current generations].

People are repeating all of the things you describe but the parameters have changed. At the most basic, although people earn more money than 2 shillings and sixpence a week; house prices have risen many times more.

The essence of what pope is saying is that younger generations can be just as thrifting, hard working and conscientious but get less than previous generations. This is where the rub lies.

Absolutely. You can dispute the income and cost of living (not with a straight face really, but still) but some aspects are indisputable.

House prices and rental costs for a start.

Pensions for another. Our pensions will not be anywhere near what the boomers are enjoying, even if we put comparatively more into them. My pension is not as good as someone who started teaching one day before me; to the tune of tens of thousands of pounds.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

And that's probably down to you never looking into it in any depth. The rich and powerful globalists create their groups like CFR, Trilateral Commission, Chatham House, Bilderberg, etc and then some members of these, such as Zbigniew Brzezinski , Kissinger, Wolfowitz, Cheney, etc go into government and carry out the policies from the groups

He means you don't go on the right Facebook echo chambers Basha

 

[JC21]

He means you don't go on the right Facebook echo chambers Basha

I don't need a twat like you telling me or anyone else what I mean. I mean you've never read the books by highly-qualified and intelligent people or the documentaries that have been made, many decades before the invention of the internet.

Pope, go back to fucking sleep til your precious Lewis is on, he's missing you

 

[Old Red Fart]

The issue the "lefties" are most bothered about is that a 20 year old now could work just as hard as you have for their entire life, make all the same good decisions you did... And end up with about 25-50% (at best) of what you have when they reach 75.

The refusal of people like yourself to acknowledge this, or care, is what causes generational conflict from their side. It is the assumption by certain people of your generation (you clearly included) that you are somehow special, that you have worked harder than other generations and consequently deserve more, that it is all your own work.

As if he generations before yours who didn't get to enjoy your kind of retirement didn't work as hard. I doubt you would have the gumption to say that, but you would about the younger generations.

Do you not think that people of your generations should work towards and show an interest in ensuring that a young person who makes all the same decisions as you and works as hard as you did will get the same benefits at the end?

If your immediate thought is "no" then congratulations; you've just discovered what "ok boomer" is all about

Think you're on the wrong horse here Pope. I see a lot of my grandchildren and their friends, mostly in their late 20s and in general they work pretty hard although no harder than I did at their age, and they earn well but by God they don't half spend well. And then when they reach the serious part of life and talk of the future the penny seems to drop, and they can't afford to think of buying a house etc. It does remind me of when we were first married and the chance of a new house came up, we hadn't got a bean and in those days you had to put down a 10% deposit. I ended up by borrowing 5% of one bank and 5% off another and we secured the house followed by several years of hard graft to pay off what I'd put my name to, both of us working. But it was worth it in the end, got us a start. I really doubt whether any of my grandkids would do the same, so far it's been too easy for them and they've got used to the good life, and that is something that we never experienced.
I'm a bit older than the Poacher but I understand exactly the points that he makes and in general I agree.

 

[Basha73]

And that's probably down to you never looking into it in any depth. The rich and powerful globalists create their groups like CFR, Trilateral Commission, Chatham House, Bilderberg, etc and then some members of these, such as Zbigniew Brzezinski , Kissinger, Wolfowitz, Cheney, etc go into government and carry out the policies from the groups

And again that’s where I will agree to the idea of influence but puppeteering is too far and not a conversation I am interested in.

 

[radfordinlondon]

Think you're on the wrong horse here Pope. I see a lot of my grandchildren and their friends, mostly in their late 20s and in general they work pretty hard although no harder than I did at their age, and they earn well but by God they don't half spend well. And then when they reach the serious part of life and talk of the future the penny seems to drop, and they can't afford to think of buying a house etc. It does remind me of when we were first married and the chance of a new house came up, we hadn't got a bean and in those days you had to put down a 10% deposit. I ended up by borrowing 5% of one bank and 5% off another and we secured the house followed by several years of hard graft to pay off what I'd put my name to, both of us working. But it was worth it in the end, got us a start. I really doubt whether any of my grandkids would do the same, so far it's been too easy for them and they've got used to the good life, and that is something that we never experienced.
I'm a bit older than the Poacher but I understand exactly the points that he makes and in general I agree.

It is no longer possible to do what you orf and thats the point. You have to declare the second loan these days or be guilty of fraud.