The Official Dean Smith Thread

[ldgavfc]

To be fair I don’t think he’s been that bad. Losing Wesley on New Year’s Day we needed someone in quick and Samatta came in and fitted the bill. Not his fault he joined us in such a dire state. Although I do think he’s been disappointing since the restart.

No I'm not blaming him or judging him too hard but he's looked crap since the restart as you say. I think a director of football worth his salt in January would have known we needed someone with PL experience up front. It could have been another Danny Drinkwater-esque failure or it could have been a Danny Ings-esque success. Could have broke the bank for Mitrovic or Giroud, someone who can get goals and has got goals at premier league level. I would even have taken Crouch.

 

[mike_field]

Yup, another disappointment. Looked lively to begin with with positioning and willingness to run, but his desire seems to have morphed into Wesley.

 

[JuanPabloAngel]

Interestingly, there is a thread for Ally Samatta...

https://forums.vitalfootball.co.uk/threads/the-mbwana-samatta-thread.101985/page-14#post-2222167

 

[Divine_islet]

Well said. So many fools look at results or a performance and blame the manager. Sometimes you've just got to take a step back, look at the club and think, do we, a team who finished 5th in the championship last season, deserve or have a right to more than 27 points from 32 games? Would a different manager have turned Trezeguet into a 15 goals a season winger or Targett into a 10 assists a season full back? Of course not!

Atletico Madrid hired a nobody who loved the club as coach a few years ago. He's now one of the best managers around. Lampard is going ok at Chelsea, Solskjaer is starting to do ok for United, what the hell is wrong with Dean Smith?

Question to ask would be what is right with Smith. I don't think I have read anyone say that we should have finished higher. However, looking clueless with no style of play, no plan, and the multitude of other negatives that we have is not acceptable. I cannot accept us going down without a fight. Those sides you mentioned...

 

[wittonite]

Panic buy and his agent got him a 4-year deal at 27

Yep, we are everybodies gravy train arent we.

 

[Divine_islet]

And as we know Divine, that's absolutely horseshit in terms of rewriting history.

One unfit centre-half playing through injury, bedding in new players in January, the return of Jack - let alone the more front foot nature of our performances since he arrived through the door.

Ignoring DS's impact here just because it doesn't suit the PL narrative because people daftly expected more, is short sighted and flat out wrong. It wasn't 'just' Jack, or Tammy, or Mings any more than it was the fresh faces in the crowd coming to their first games at that point.

What I find horseshit is giving unmerited credit to Smith, because even then as it is now, we have the same plan which is to pass the ball to Jack and hope he scores or does something with it. That is what you would expect any manager who has no managerial skills or a headcoach with zero coaching ability to do i.e. just let the team know to pass the ball to your best player and hope. Even you and I with no managerial skills or a game plan can tell the team to do that. When Jack was absent due to injury last season we were on a poor run of form where we had won only 2 in 14 or 15 games and then when he returned in the home game against Derby our form changed and went on an 11 game unbeaten run which clearly tells you that was due to Jack alone. And if he really deserved praise we would not have been that terrible if he had us playing as a team. We also had Tammy who along with Jack helped us get the goals we needed to go up, however this season as we all know Jack has been doing it all on his own. If Smith had any role to play we would have gone up playing as a team last year and continued to improve, which we didn't and haven't. Smith has been relying on Jack and with Jack not being anywhere near as good as he was before the covid break, our chances of survival without relying on other teams has gone down further.

 

[mike_field]

Sorry Divine, but that argument falls down based on our performances without Jack (Liverpool as the standout this season) unless my brain has now gone for a wander to the local pub.

There is far more to it than that last season as you well know mate and you are continually completely ignoring the summer upheaval on players in terms of having a settled squad, singing from the same hymnsheet.

Again, when Jack was absent - he didn't return until March. DS sorted defence, got us on the front foot which people wanted. Not every result went our way, but we all talked about improvements based on Bruce's style and results as well.

And no, the record run of wins was not 'Jack alone'. That's insulting. Jack was a massive part in it, just as Mings was finding better form once settled, just as McGinn was showing us what he could really do and countless other players who all found their form at the same time.

This isn't Hollywood, this isn't FIFA...one player never carries a team - Jack became the focal point purely because he reached the highs (and the press adulation) that came from that given how we've rated him for years.

Yes we also had Tammy. So your own argument fails as you credit another player as being a major difference.

And sorry, the last bit is total horseshit because we didn't have a balanced team until January (settling in period allowed).

We can all 'bold for effect' but it's just the same as adding FACT after something, and unless you are blind, dumb and Boris Johnson, that's not how life works.

You also ruin your own argument by again not factoring in 10+ new arrivals over the summer to replace those who weren't deemed good enough in the Championship.

You further ruin your argument as you imply we and Jack were good ahead of the break, and it's only gone tits up since we returned. (which I accept you didn't mean to imply).

Additionally, we are actually one of the form teams at the bottom of the table since the restart.

But you're entitled to your opinion, I don't expect to change it with proper information.

 

[mike_field]

For the record, DS took charge Oct 10 with only one unfit centre half.

Bruce had 4 wins.

Prior to Jan, DS had picked up 6.

We lost Jack, early December and he didn't return until March.

We lost 5 I believe whilst he was out whilst settling in our January arrivals.

DS is not the second coming....but to deny what he managed to do is horseshit matey.

Last season has no bearing on this season or the criticism he's entitled to receive.

 

[Divine_islet]

Sorry Divine, but that argument falls down based on our performances without Jack (Liverpool as the standout this season) unless my brain has now gone for a wander to the local pub.

There is far more to it than that last season as you well know mate and you are continually completely ignoring the summer upheaval on players in terms of having a settled squad, singing from the same hymnsheet.

Again, when Jack was absent - he didn't return until March. DS sorted defence, got us on the front foot which people wanted. Not every result went our way, but we all talked about improvements based on Bruce's style and results as well.

And no, the record run of wins was not 'Jack alone'. That's insulting. Jack was a massive part in it, just as Mings was finding better form once settled, just as McGinn was showing us what he could really do and countless other players who all found their form at the same time.

This isn't Hollywood, this isn't FIFA...one player never carries a team - Jack became the focal point purely because he reached the highs (and the press adulation) that came from that given how we've rated him for years.

Yes we also had Tammy. So your own argument fails as you credit another player as being a major difference.

And sorry, the last bit is total horseshit because we didn't have a balanced team until January (settling in period allowed).

We can all 'bold for effect' but it's just the same as adding FACT after something, and unless you are blind, dumb and Boris Johnson, that's not how life works.

You also ruin your own argument by again not factoring in 10+ new arrivals over the summer to replace those who weren't deemed good enough in the Championship.

You further ruin your argument as you imply we and Jack were good ahead of the break, and it's only gone tits up since we returned. (which I accept you didn't mean to imply).

Additionally, we are actually one of the form teams at the bottom of the table since the restart.

But you're entitled to your opinion, I don't expect to change it with proper information.

Mike, you are using ONE performance to say that we can play well without Jack . And if you are honest, you know how we actually played in that game. It was defending right till the end and yet we lost, didn't we. 4 shots vs 26 shots on target, and 25 % vs 75 % possession. What a performance, fantastic, not !! I am talking about how we played well attack-wise in the championship due to Jack and you are using a defensive performance, to win an argument, which you were wrong to use to begin with. Try some other valid example if you could. Have you forgotten the game vs Wolves away without Jack where we were the worst this season perhaps?

Winning 2 in 15 games is called sorting the defence? How is that defence doing this season if it was "sorted"?

One player does not carry a team? Have you watched us at all this season, never mind last season. I am certain Jack has the most goals and assists for us this season. Our plan is to pass the ball to Jack and hope for the best. Hence that proves we are a one man team.

In order for Tammy to score he needed support, and who provided that? Jack again.

Form team, sure . I am sure Dean thinks the same based on his post match interviews. Liverpool, Utd, Arsenal are all going to get a hammering soon by us !

 

[Divine_islet]

For the record, DS took charge Oct 10 with only one unfit centre half.

Bruce had 4 wins.

Prior to Jan, DS had picked up 6.

We lost Jack, early December and he didn't return until March.

We lost 5 I believe whilst he was out whilst settling in our January arrivals.

DS is not the second coming....but to deny what he managed to do is horseshit matey.

Last season has no bearing on this season or the criticism he's entitled to receive.

Okay Mike, he was the best manager the championship has ever seen. Alright forget about last season as the current season is all that matters, i agree. Who according to you is to be blamed the most for our performance this season?

 

[sirdennis]

What I find horseshit is giving unmerited credit to Smith, because even then as it is now, we have the same plan which is to pass the ball to Jack and hope he scores or does something with it. That is what you would expect any manager who has no managerial skills or a headcoach with zero coaching ability to do i.e. just let the team know to pass the ball to your best player and hope. Even you and I with no managerial skills or a game plan can tell the team to do that. When Jack was absent due to injury last season we were on a poor run of form where we had won only 2 in 14 or 15 games and then when he returned in the home game against Derby our form changed and went on an 11 game unbeaten run which clearly tells you that was due to Jack alone. And if he really deserved praise we would not have been that terrible if he had us playing as a team. We also had Tammy who along with Jack helped us get the goals we needed to go up, however this season as we all know Jack has been doing it all on his own. If Smith had any role to play we would have gone up playing as a team last year and continued to improve, which we didn't and haven't. Smith has been relying on Jack and with Jack not being anywhere near as good as he was before the covid break, our chances of survival without relying on other teams has gone down further.

This is where I have a problem with people now not giving Deano credit for last season saying it was luck and down to Jack returning from injury.

Let it be said that our return to form came in the game before the Derby match away at Stoke where we were poor in the first half but thanks to a half time pep talk from our "useless" manager suddenly started playing as we were pre Christmas. Also as well as Jack being injured for that game , we were also missing McGinn.

It has not been mentioned that we were also without Jack for the Bristol City game during our winning streak (Mings was also out) so the idea that we could only win with Jack in the team went out the window therein a game where we created several chances and had it not been for their goalie having an absolute blinder would have won by a landslide.

In short it is a bit of a myth that our return to form coincided with Jacks return.

 

[mike_field]

It's not one performance though is it mate.

We've shown we can do it - I thoroughly agree the frustration is we haven't done it more - with or without Jack.

This is why I've commented myself here, DS has lost his way and moved away from his own philosophy that needed tweaking but not abandoning because it's nullified our greatest strengths.

Maybe we enjoy different types of football dude, I have no problem with a rearguard and seeing quality teams restricted to long range potshots that trouble the corner flag. That was Liverpool, that was Chelsea etc.

I'm not using a defensive performance (and sorry, without being insulting, if you don't accept there are teams in the PL we need to be defensive against then I'd question your knowledge of the game) to prove my point, I'm using it to prove a point that we could've taken something from the game and we can quite easily prove we can be drilled, and sharp and organised with Jack. Two entirely different things.

Divine, you are flitting around to suit your standpoint. You jump from last season where DS was shit, to this season to prove we're shit, to last season without Jack to this season with Jack. And not to be funny but do you mean the Wolves game this season we won or lost - both by a single goal?

You say attack wise in the Championship, without accepting we must have scored goals and gone forward (which fans loved) to go on an unbeaten run and put us in an thoroughly unaccepted Play Off race. You really can't have it both ways just because you've decided you don't like DS mate.

We started playing on the front foot before Jack hit form. Despite Bruce's poor win record, that season we won 44% of the games including 2 odd months without Jack.

What are you basing the 2 in 15 games?

Have we again now moved to this season in an attempt to justify DS's lack of impact last season, without acknowledging 10 new players, settling into a new country and new division and a new team?

Whilst we are still 1 point from safety and had it not been for VAR, or better finishing, we wouldn't be in the relegation zone to begin with?

But no mate, I've spent the last 21 years running this website and I don't watch games. I form my opinions based on social media before it was even created, I'm that good!

Jack has 7 goals and 6 assists.

The rest of the team have 28 goals and 22 assists.

He also has our most yellow cards, but I'm not sure that's relevant in a one man team.

Tammy also scored 10 times without Jack.

#justsaying

As for the second post. Even a mass debater like me isn't going there as I want to cabbage and watch the TV now.

But on the subject of who to blame.

Everyone involved in recruitment to one degree or another, but this season was always a gimme and too many fans don't seem to appreciate that. Survival was always a flip of the coin with what we did/and needed to do, over the summer.

You either let it piss you off, or you step back and see what happens without looking for a scapegoat.

 

[robbali]

think it was Grealish who said El ghazi was a good finisher, I know some think Sammatta is something special but I think that was because he looked more mobile than Wesley , I'm more mobile than Wesley

Samatta looked ok for the first couple of games. Not much since the goal at Wembley.

 

[tarzansbrother]

This is where I have a problem with people now not giving Deano credit for last season saying it was luck and down to Jack returning from injury.

Let it be said that our return to form came in the game before the Derby match away at Stoke where we were poor in the first half but thanks to a half time pep talk from our "useless" manager suddenly started playing as we were pre Christmas. Also as well as Jack being injured for that game , we were also missing McGinn.

It has not been mentioned that we were also without Jack for the Bristol City game during our winning streak (Mings was also out) so the idea that we could only win with Jack in the team went out the window therein a game where we created several chances and had it not been for their goalie having an absolute blinder would have won by a landslide.

In short it is a bit of a myth that our return to form coincided with Jacks return.

fucking hell a half time pep talk from our manager - like rocking horse shit. Can add drinks break pep talk to that in this Covid era. DS isn’t useless just way out of his depth, id actually say he had luck getting us promoted(earned) - that luck has long gone now especially with the brand of football he is treating us to.

 

[robbali]

Question to ask would be what is right with Smith. I don't think I have read anyone say that we should have finished higher. However, looking clueless with no style of play, no plan, and the multitude of other negatives that we have is not acceptable. I cannot accept us going down without a fight. Those sides you mentioned...

Considering the average state of the PL bar about 6 teams plus the poor teams at the bottom I thought we would be clear of the bottom. But we are simply one of those poor bottom teams.

 

[robbali]

fucking hell a half time pep talk from our manager - like rocking horse shit. Can add drinks break pep talk to that in this Covid era. DS isn’t useless just way out of his depth, id actually say he had luck getting us promoted(earned) - that luck has long gone now especially with the brand of football he is treating us to.

Not even sure what 'football style' he is trying to play.

 

[Eddy1]

When you’ve been on a run like we have you expect to see changes yet all we can muster is the same old faces, put some of the youngsters on the bench ? Play with two forwards and a wide player who runs him self silly to deliver the required crosses for forwards the type of chance they can convert , do it with pace and speed .... that would be a novelty instead of playing it back across the park three of four times .

So Jack rumours are abound ... another Villa star moving ... Benteke , Young , Yorke ... and many others ... why can’t we keep our star players and build a great team , half a good season and the rumours start and then it’s a matter of time before they go, the press and radio fuel the rumours as if we don’t have a right to keep players of quality.... when will this all stop.

After this weekend it game where we’ll get embarrassed by the champions hopefully it’s time up for Dean Smith , why wait ?

 

[sirdennis]

fucking hell a half time pep talk from our manager - like rocking horse shit. Can add drinks break pep talk to that in this Covid era. DS isn’t useless just way out of his depth, id actually say he had luck getting us promoted(earned) - that luck has long gone now especially with the brand of football he is treating us to.

Predictable response , but I wasn't on about now , I was on about last season , and that is what happened.

 

[DeanoVilla]

I think he's going to surprise us all today!

Obviously we'll get battered but I reckon he'll whip his cock out and do the windmill.

 

[Melon Donkey]

Whatever the failings this season, to say that Smith was lucky to get us promoted is fcuking ridiculous, rewriting history and just plain salty because you have an agenda from this season.

It was not just about the 10 games. We went on a decent run pre Xmas after he came in and in that ultimately accrued points that helped towards the final total. He had alot of work to do to get a mish mash of players who were playing head scratching tactics and had to sort out various things such as our centre back playing right back and our midfielder playing centre back for starters.

Guess this is the flip flop nature of some fans nowadays though. I wonder how many who are saying Smith was lucky last season were saying exactly that walking back down Wembley way after the play off final, or sat at home watching the post match celebrations.

Funny enough as I typed this Sky are showing the 4-2 win against Blues last autumn. Lucky win that.