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#COVID19

I think the implication here is that Cummings' situation was exceptional because he's Dominic Cummings.

So Dominic Cummings is an arch criminal as opposed to being Stephen Kinnock (who according to Lisa Nandy made a mistake !) or Tahir Ali, who seems to have taken to attending funerals "as an observer". Has Starmer kicked them both out of the Labour Party ?

Vaughan Gething is a bit more debatable, but he could have taken his chips home, rather than sitting in the park with them.
 
So Dominic Cummings is an arch criminal as opposed to being Stephen Kinnock (who according to Lisa Nandy made a mistake !) or Tahir Ali, who seems to have taken to attending funerals "as an observer". Has Starmer kicked them both out of the Labour Party ?

Vaughan Gething is a bit more debatable, but he could have taken his chips home, rather than sitting in the park with them.
Dominic Cummings isn't a member of the Tory party so he couldn't quit anyway.

If you think they should have lost their jobs (I believe Stephen Kinnock alone has one) in the shadow cabinet, then it follows you agree Cummings must go.

Your Whataboutary has significant flaws of course.

For a start, none of the above were members of the government nor the public health team. There is a clear precedent for members of both who have broken the rules to quit. Mr Cummings wrote the rules and broke them. Mr Kinnock did not write the rules.

Then there is the fact that two people who had COVID took that disease knowingly 260 miles across the country, and in fact added to the pressure on the NHS in a different location.

The fact that they had COVID when the guidance was so utterly clear that you had to self isolate at home if you did draws a huge distinction between this case and every other.

Then there is the fact that they stayed for over two weeks in a different location.

Then there is Barnard castle on his wife's birthday.

Then there is the absolute pack of lies he has told about a) not being able to get childcare in a city of 6 million where his sister in law lives, b) it being a safeguarding emergency, c) the eye test d) going back to work the day after his wife caught it e) just about half the story.

Then there is the fact that every one of the others admitted their fault immediately and accepted a fine; had Cummings done that on Friday it is unlikely we would be talking about this on Wednesday.

I am happy to see Kinnock fired in fairness; what he did was wrong. But he isn't in the government, and when you are it matters a lot more.

I don't understand this tribalism. You can be a good, self interested Tory without being so gullible as to believe you have to defend this guy
 
So Dominic Cummings is an arch criminal as opposed to being Stephen Kinnock (who according to Lisa Nandy made a mistake !) or Tahir Ali, who seems to have taken to attending funerals "as an observer". Has Starmer kicked them both out of the Labour Party ?

Vaughan Gething is a bit more debatable, but he could have taken his chips home, rather than sitting in the park with them.
I never claimed Cummings was an arch criminal.
I said that from what Boris was saying earlier today, you can infer that he thinks that Cummings was in exceptional circumstances because he's Dominic Cummings.

1/4 of parents have had difficulties getting childcare, and Johnson said the rule they should follow is to stay at home. With Cummings, he said, there were exceptional circumstances, but declined to say what made his circumstances exceptional compared to 25% of UK parents.

I'm not talking about whether or not Cummings should be sacked, but an attitude in the government that rules and laws don't apply to them or their friends.
 
People like you turned on his Labour party to get Brexit done

NO SHAME

Skinner. Real down to earth labour MP. Not afraid to speak his mind and always looked after the man in the street. In Parliament he is the only MP who voted against every EU bill. Maastricht the lot. He knew How the man in the street was being screwed over. Afraid many left the Labour Party to join some middle Europe Democratic Party well before the turn of the century.
 
Skinner. Real down to earth labour MP. Not afraid to speak his mind and always looked after the man in the street. In Parliament he is the only MP who voted against every EU bill. Maastricht the lot. He knew How the man in the street was being screwed over. Afraid many left the Labour Party to join some middle Europe Democratic Party well before the turn of the century.

Absolute garbage!

Denis is a very good friend of the family, as was Tony Benn, who also claimed to have voted against every EU bill which passed through Parliament.

Neither spoke about "how the man in the street was being screwed over" because it was not true.

Both had a deep loathing of the EU, primarily because it prevented them realising their dystopian ideals of re nationalisation funded by state money.
 
Dominic Cummings isn't a member of the Tory party so he couldn't quit anyway.

If you think they should have lost their jobs (I believe Stephen Kinnock alone has one) in the shadow cabinet, then it follows you agree Cummings must go.

Your Whataboutary has significant flaws of course.

For a start, none of the above were members of the government nor the public health team. There is a clear precedent for members of both who have broken the rules to quit. Mr Cummings wrote the rules and broke them. Mr Kinnock did not write the rules.

Then there is the fact that two people who had COVID took that disease knowingly 260 miles across the country, and in fact added to the pressure on the NHS in a different location.

The fact that they had COVID when the guidance was so utterly clear that you had to self isolate at home if you did draws a huge distinction between this case and every other.

Then there is the fact that they stayed for over two weeks in a different location.

Then there is Barnard castle on his wife's birthday.

Then there is the absolute pack of lies he has told about a) not being able to get childcare in a city of 6 million where his sister in law lives, b) it being a safeguarding emergency, c) the eye test d) going back to work the day after his wife caught it e) just about half the story.

Then there is the fact that every one of the others admitted their fault immediately and accepted a fine; had Cummings done that on Friday it is unlikely we would be talking about this on Wednesday.

I am happy to see Kinnock fired in fairness; what he did was wrong. But he isn't in the government, and when you are it matters a lot more.

I don't understand this tribalism. You can be a good, self interested Tory without being so gullible as to believe you have to defend this guy
:agree:
 
She basically summarised his version of events, which were, in turn, a repeat of the press speculation beforehand.

They don't have to ignore facts.

She made a categorical judgement, and a personal opinion. He hasn't been convicted, and whilst I believe he broke the rules there is enough ambiguity in them for the government's stance.
 
For a start, none of the above were members of the government nor the public health team. There is a clear precedent for members of both who have broken the rules to quit. Mr Cummings wrote the rules and broke them. Mr Kinnock did not write the rules.

Dominic Cummings is an adviser. He is not part of the elected government, or the public health team (if you mean SAGE). The rules were made by the government. Not necessarily defending him, but seems that being seriously worried about your wife and child is far more important than driving from Wales to London to wish your dad Happy Birthday, or someone who decided to go to two funerals in one day when (from what I have read) he had no personal involvement. If Cummings is sacked, the two MPs should clearly lose there seats too.

Let's be honest here. It's clear that most people on here just hate the bloke anyhow. Can't say I particularly like him either, but at least he's doing what we voted for in the referendum. Of course most people on here don't want that to happen either.
 
Dominic Cummings is an adviser. He is not part of the elected government, or the public health team (if you mean SAGE). The rules were made by the government. Not necessarily defending him, but seems that being seriously worried about your wife and child is far more important than driving from Wales to London to wish your dad Happy Birthday, or someone who decided to go to two funerals in one day when (from what I have read) he had no personal involvement. If Cummings is sacked, the two MPs should clearly lose there seats too.

Let's be honest here. It's clear that most people on here just hate the bloke anyhow. Can't say I particularly like him either, but at least he's doing what we voted for in the referendum. Of course most people on here don't want that to happen either.
Hold on, that is utterly ridiculous.

You don't lose your seat for a minor infraction.

You lose your seat if you go to prison or are voted out. Politicians who mess up lose their government or shadow government jobs, they don't lose their seats. Surely you know that.

His reason is absolute bullshit. You can be deliberately gullible if you like, but his narrative doesn't hold up to even the slightest scrutiny, nor does his reasoning.

His wife had it. But he didn't know she had it. He was sure he was going to get it, or already had it, but he didn't know she had it. So he went into work. Then, having been to work, he suddenly panicked about Schroedinger's virus in his wife. In a city of 6 million where his sister in law lives, he instantly knew, without making any enquiries, that the only person willing to help them was 264 miles away; a niece he was willing to possibly sacrifice the life of.

So he drove in the middle of the night for 5 hours, just getting to this concrete monstrosity that is the third house on his parents large estate in time for Mr Cummings to suddenly feel terrible and his wife ok. Emergency suddenly evaporates. Then child gets Ill, they burdon the NHS in Durham, child is fine and is cleared of having Covid, even though they were not testing children at the time.

He has a rough time with it, while taking several walks in the woods on his private estate that members of the public are free to walk through.

Then he decided to go to Barnard's castle on his wife's birthday to test his eyesight for the journey back to London, because he had been cleared to go back to work but still felt very sick. It seems to have never occurred to anyone to let his wife, who was perfectly fine by this point, drive home. That's a pretty massive hole in the Barnard Castle story.

It's bullshit.

The other offenders admitted their mistakes, apologised instantly and were fined. None were part of the government. Mr Cummings IS a member of SAGE and is effectively Mr Johnson's chief of staff.

What pissed people off is the idea that he is telling us to do something and not bothering to do it himself. That isn't the case with Stephen Kinnock. What also pisses people off is the lying by the government to defend him, and the implication that we are all mugs for following rules that were clearly optional

60 Tory MPs, including the former chancellor seem to agree with me
 
Always amuses me when people try and defend the indefensible. Even a flat earther should be able to tell that his story is obvious bullshit but...

Debate the punishment that should be meted out by all means but don’t insult people’s intelligence by trying to say he hasn’t behaved contemptuously.
 
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