king_dezeeuw06
Vital Champions League
I never liked our press long before Cummings, long before Covid, long before the last election, or the election before that, or Brexitthe referendum. They are largely dreadful with a very few exceptions.
So, whadda we gonna moan abart?
- Thread starter moonay
- Start date
I never liked our press long before Cummings, long before Covid, long before the last election, or the election before that, or Brexitthe referendum. They are largely dreadful with a very few exceptions.
moonay
Vital Football Legend
One rule - Surely you get that those in government - and especially the very top of government - need to be an exemplar. I explained why. I imagine that all other MPs who have committed a breach have expressed regret in some way. Cummings hasn't.
Having to be "better than others" is a burden of leadership. Politics, sport, work. If you're in charge, then more is expected of you.......certainly in terms of behaviour and adherence to rules.
Calderwood resigned because she was found out ......... what a shame Cummings hasn't got the same integrity. (Barnard Castle at the very least).
"Cummings wheather people agree or not does have a decent argument he didn't break the rules due to exceptional circumstances with childcare" .......... actually, legally, no, he doesn't. .Read this thread:
Brexit - fair enough ......... don't have enough knowledge about the changing influence of papers but it's still an easy excuse.
Stay at home was pretty clear. It's only Stay Alert that's caused controversy.
No, I do watch some American news ...... and I have to laugh at your statement
as CNN and MSNBC are even worse for left bias than Fox are for right bias these days, ................... bar for a couple of presenters Cavuto, Wallace, Smith before he left, the rest are up Trump's arse. (Take that back, .....I forget the name of their WH correspondent .....tall, grey hair....he's OK). CNN, MSNBC, they have good and bad, but more are fair than not. The issue is, they're all obviously against Trump, cos he's just puddled, but they don't fawn over Democrats in the same way. I fully agree with your impartiality comment by the way .......... and I generally think most of ours are OK, cos both sides think they pick against them!
As for any "attacking Cummings" points you raise ...... I'll raise you "Corbyn".
As for your exceptional circumstances para (hope the little uns well by the way) I refer you back to the Matthew Ryder thread. (Hasn't Milne gone now by the way?).
Happy to agree to disagree .......even Lawyers see different interpretation of points of law. It's just a shame for the Tories that such a fuss has been made about an advisor ........ who supposedly should never be "the story". It's just that Johnson has to back him, as he'll shit himself should he go........... on the back of getting rid of too many half decent MPs in the last election.
Having to be "better than others" is a burden of leadership. Politics, sport, work. If you're in charge, then more is expected of you.......certainly in terms of behaviour and adherence to rules.
Calderwood resigned because she was found out ......... what a shame Cummings hasn't got the same integrity. (Barnard Castle at the very least).
"Cummings wheather people agree or not does have a decent argument he didn't break the rules due to exceptional circumstances with childcare" .......... actually, legally, no, he doesn't. .Read this thread:
Brexit - fair enough ......... don't have enough knowledge about the changing influence of papers but it's still an easy excuse.
Stay at home was pretty clear. It's only Stay Alert that's caused controversy.
No, I do watch some American news ...... and I have to laugh at your statement
as CNN and MSNBC are even worse for left bias than Fox are for right bias these days, ................... bar for a couple of presenters Cavuto, Wallace, Smith before he left, the rest are up Trump's arse. (Take that back, .....I forget the name of their WH correspondent .....tall, grey hair....he's OK). CNN, MSNBC, they have good and bad, but more are fair than not. The issue is, they're all obviously against Trump, cos he's just puddled, but they don't fawn over Democrats in the same way. I fully agree with your impartiality comment by the way .......... and I generally think most of ours are OK, cos both sides think they pick against them!
As for any "attacking Cummings" points you raise ...... I'll raise you "Corbyn".
As for your exceptional circumstances para (hope the little uns well by the way) I refer you back to the Matthew Ryder thread. (Hasn't Milne gone now by the way?).
Happy to agree to disagree .......even Lawyers see different interpretation of points of law. It's just a shame for the Tories that such a fuss has been made about an advisor ........ who supposedly should never be "the story". It's just that Johnson has to back him, as he'll shit himself should he go........... on the back of getting rid of too many half decent MPs in the last election.
moonay
Vital Football Legend
I know it's not a popular view, but I think most high profile TV journalists are OK ...... as I've already said. However, I agree with the written press. There are some excellent journalists, but far far too many shitehawks ........ not just in the tabloids.
king_dezeeuw06
Vital Champions League
Bloody hell KDZ ........ that'll take some reading. It will likely be the morning before I get back to you.
It's ok no need to reply, I'm just putting my point forward not trying to convince anyone of anything - or get into a back and forth. I've said my piece. We all have largely the same info and interptet it in different ways. We are likely to agree to disagree in the end anyway.
The only thing i would hope we can all agree on is the press can do their jobs effectively without the need to behave like such an angry mob baying for blood. Regardless of if Cummings should or shouldn't go - his family who aren't responsible for his choices shouldn't be hounded and harassed at home. His house, his parents house, his number plate, wife and childrens face etc shouldn't be printed or televised or shared on line - they have crossed the line horribly while breaking the very rules they are critasising him for. They should not print stories that they can not provide evidence for and they should apply the same scrutiny to the people they like and don't like equally. If we keep letting them do this to people we don't like they will eventually do it to people we do like and if we are unlucky maybe ourselves or someone we know one day. When they were doorstepping Corbyn is wasn't on, and it's not on now doing it to Cummings and it wont be on if they do it to Starmer or anyone else in the future.
king_dezeeuw06
Vital Champions League
Which ones? After Andrew Neil and i find it quite hard to name many others.
moonay
Vital Football Legend
Already have done.
I'm the same ......but I don't mind the back and forth ...... certainly on issues of opinion. When it gets to supposed "facts", then that becomes more interesting as though they should be "in stone", we often find they aren't .
Re the press. then again, I'd differentiate between TV and Papers, but yes, I agree. ................ and I absolutely agree re the hassling of Cummings' family. I think it was Sky I saw - that was really really poor.
As for Starmer, he'll be fine .................. he'll set the donkeys on 'em.
moonay
Vital Football Legend
Maitlis, Mason, Kuenssberg (even though she was in Johnson's pocket during the election), Goodall, Coburn, Rigby, Pike, Boulton, ........... even Austin, & Burley - (though she can be up and down).
Hampton
Vital Football Hero
king_dezeeuw06
Vital Champions League
If Cummings doesn't think he's done anything wrong why would he express regret or apologise and would that regret change anything? He is probably also acutely aware that if he gives an inch those out for his blood will take a mile - any minor admission of guilt will be used against him which is why they were so desperate to get him to say sorry. So he is in a position where he can't say sorry without effectively inviting even more pressure to go - which rightly or wrongly he doesn't think he should.
I don't think it washes that Cummings should be punished but elected MPs for the opposition parties are held to a different standard when their breaches don't even have a 'loophole' while he does. They are all part of our democratic apperatus - they are all paid by the British tax payer, they are all involved in the governmental process of passing laws in some context so i think it's only reasonable that if we are to hold up one as an example to the public they all should be. I'm happy to throw them all out if we go zero tolerance - but it's all or none if we want to be intelectually consistent.
The issue is we had a website with the full list of instructions, excemptions, etc on there that the government pointed us to and then discussed at the daily briefings. The slogan is just that as they can't write anything short and punchy that would entail all of the rules. As i said i found the rule Cummings is using in his defence long before any of this was an story. I think the press are being highly disengenous pretending a sentance on the post was the extent of the guidlines. The media made out the sentance 'stay alert was' was too confusing and ambigous when it wasn't at all and now they are saying that the rules in the guidlines which were somewhat ambigous to to effectively saying 'use your judgement' were very clear and he broke them - they go whichever way gives them the better narrative.
That lady is one of the leaders in the Brexit derrangement syndrome stakes and asking her opinion on if Cummings was in the wrong is like asking the Pope do you believe in God.
Another thing i keep hearing is that Cummings wasn't allowed to drive to that castle due to lockdown - i remember the police issued clarification saying you were allowed to drive to a place for exercise as long as you maintained the other rules. I was under the impression the drive while he was up there was within the rules also. I don't believe there was a specified limit on the distance or time you could drive but i could be wrong. I think the the contention is more if people believe his version of events / motivation or not.
CNN, MSNBC have a few more dreadful ones than those; Cuomo, Acoster, Cooper, Maddow, Stelter and Lemmon are as bad as Hannity, Pirro, Bolling, O'Reilly (i don't think last 2 may be there anymore), etc. But CNN and MSNBC have largely gone nowhere near the Biden scandals but report extensively on similar scandals that had less evidence for Trump - so it's not just achors the is a channel wide editorial bias as the Project Veritas stings confirmed catching them admitting it on hidden cameras. Fox has on Smith and Wallace who do a lot of the Fox audiences head in for not being on the Trump band wagon enough, but they are very likely operating under a similar editorial bias. I think that's what our media is increasingly becoming unfortunately - offcom is pretty useless.
You say about attacking Corbyn yes much of the media attacked him all of the time, and while he had so many things worse than what Cummings did - there is still a line that the media crossed with him. I thought Corbyn was terrible but the constant doorstepping of him was just as bad.
The reference to Semus Miln was purely example wise, as i don't know Starmers advisors or any beliefs they may have had.
The thing is unlike most advisors Cummings is integral to everything the Government want to do - the media have gone for him harder and he's been defender more because of that. I think Boris is wishy washy and Cummings very much like Campbell and Blair is very much the driving force. While they shouldn't be the focus i think it's unavoidable due to the nature of the signifigance.
The issue is what you see as decent MP's on the right side of politics are the most left leaning and bad one's on the left are likely in reverse. I stronly disliked all of the MP's who got binned off due to their Brexit sabotaging antics, while someone like Hoey, Austin, Field, Flint the Labour side very often didn't like were the ones i had the most respect for. Incidentally I voted Brexit party.
Happy to agree to disagree as ever.
king_dezeeuw06
Vital Champions League
I think we live in parraell worlds, most of them would be on my shit list. Matlis, Rigby, Burley and Boutlon i think are all beyond dreadful full of opinions and agendas rather than being neutral. I don't like Kuensberg much either but i think she is shit in both directions.
I'll agree on Coburn she has moments i feel she let's herself down now and then but overall i think she is pretty decent, not sure on the other ones off top of my head. I think Murnaghan is actually good. Ridge is up and down. I think it's Ed Conway on Sky does a lot of graphs and statistical analysis - i like him as he just gives you the data in context accross datasets rather than cherry picking. I actually like the press preview and the pledge too as they have people from all sides to balance each other out and that i think is probably the fairest way to avoid bias - have people arguing openly from their own side.
I used to like Michael Buerk, Alaister Stewart, Moira Stuart, Trevor McDonald - maybe i don't remember them properly but i recall them being very impartial as i think they should be.
I think overall the talent pool for journalism is dreadful as shown by the fact they waste their questions by asking pre written questions at press confrences despite that answer already being given.
hindleymonwafc
Vital Champions League
So 30,000 Spanish pensioners have " disappeared " according to Reuters...
Wonder what Senor Gerry Mandering makes of that ?
And some on here are more interested in whether 1 man resigns from his job or not.
What a crazy, mixed up world eh ?
Wonder what Senor Gerry Mandering makes of that ?And some on here are more interested in whether 1 man resigns from his job or not.
What a crazy, mixed up world eh ?
hindleymonwafc
Vital Champions League
Regarding Spain and its tourism industry I wonder what will be left of places like Benidorm in the future. The local government in Valencia are desperate to get Brits back and I'm not surprised. Benidorms mayor has said we ( Brits ) make up 4 out of 10 visitors only beaten by the Spanish themselves. This gives them a huge problem as the vast majority of these appear to be elderly who in the main seem to spend fuck all. Loads of Spanish sit on the beach all day then shuffle off at tea time through the army of Brits filling every conceivable watering hole.
It's no wonder they are in shit creek.
It's no wonder they are in shit creek.
moonay
Vital Football Legend
Not even a Priti apology KDZ? ........ you know, "I'm sorry if.....?". Anyway, it's just a measure of the man.
I get your point re elected MPs, but would still say that as "talisman", he's on a higher podium.......elected or not.
As for the website instructions, I'd love to see the section you believe gives the exemption. The bit that Cummings is using is a general "if you can" when you have children. However, the bit that MiW referenced was to do with classing kids a "vulnerable", but to me, there was a difference between "vulnerable children", and children who become vulnerable".
Jessica Simor didn't write that thread ........ but I take your point re her viewpoint. The thread, supposition and conclusion still stand though.
Ad for your driving to exercise ..... no, not at that point. That's been made very clear.
Completely disagree re Cuomo and Cooper ........ though I'll give you Maddow and Lemon.
When he became "the news", let's not forget that Campbell resigned ......... even though it may have been with a broom handle thrust in his back !
"Happy to agree to disagree as ever". ....................... as am I.
I get your point re elected MPs, but would still say that as "talisman", he's on a higher podium.......elected or not.
As for the website instructions, I'd love to see the section you believe gives the exemption. The bit that Cummings is using is a general "if you can" when you have children. However, the bit that MiW referenced was to do with classing kids a "vulnerable", but to me, there was a difference between "vulnerable children", and children who become vulnerable".
Jessica Simor didn't write that thread ........ but I take your point re her viewpoint. The thread, supposition and conclusion still stand though.
Ad for your driving to exercise ..... no, not at that point. That's been made very clear.
Completely disagree re Cuomo and Cooper ........ though I'll give you Maddow and Lemon.
When he became "the news", let's not forget that Campbell resigned ......... even though it may have been with a broom handle thrust in his back !
"Happy to agree to disagree as ever". ....................... as am I.
moonay
Vital Football Legend
A good journalist challenges both sides. Some however don't like to see their favourite politician get a roasting. Maitlis and Rigby are definitely ones who give a hard time to either side. Boulton was got a bollocking for his bias .......... against Labour!
As I say, when you get supporters of both parties disliking a reporter for "bias", then I reckon they're doing their job quite well.
The other one not mentioned is Emma Barnett on the radio ..........again, she holds all sides to account.
Any road, take care.
As I say, when you get supporters of both parties disliking a reporter for "bias", then I reckon they're doing their job quite well.
The other one not mentioned is Emma Barnett on the radio ..........again, she holds all sides to account.
Any road, take care.
moonay
Vital Football Legend
So 30,000 Spanish pensioners have " disappeared " according to Reuters...
And some on here are more interested in whether 1 man resigns from his job or not.
What a crazy, mixed up world eh ?
Maybe offer a link, and then we can all be as outraged hindley.
Hampton
Vital Football Hero
Maitlis, really ! - would love to see the last time she gave any left of centre politician a hard time
moonay
Vital Football Legend
Maitlis, really ! - would love to see the last time she gave any left of centre politician a hard time
The thing with studio journalists like her, is that she's always going to be interviewing politicians from the government far more frequently than she is the opposition. Hence, it appears that she's showing a bias.
Also, it's far more straightforward to hold an government MP to account over their record, than it is to hold an opposition one over what they would hypothetically be doing.
There's no doubt that Andrew Neil is the best example of ripping everyone.......... but I think that most of the rest do a decent job. The only one I didn't really take to very much was Paxman, who (certainly later on) believed his own publicity.
towngreen latics
Vital Youth Team
Lovely to watch Labour rank hypocrisy in clear indisputable action this morning on GMB courtesy of our own Liza "First class train travel" Nandy.
M/s Nandy conveniently forgot that the rules apply to everyone and not those she disagrees with and then backed up her defence with lies about Stephen Kinnock. The Labour MP has never apologised, in fact he continually has argued he did nothing wrong.
Typical left logic. So entrenched in their belief system they find it impossible to believe any fault can be laid at their door.
M/s Nandy conveniently forgot that the rules apply to everyone and not those she disagrees with and then backed up her defence with lies about Stephen Kinnock. The Labour MP has never apologised, in fact he continually has argued he did nothing wrong.
Typical left logic. So entrenched in their belief system they find it impossible to believe any fault can be laid at their door.
