This excerpt from a comment on an MEN piece about the disallowed goal seems to hit the spot....
“It seems that we have referees that will refrain from making a decision because they have VAR to make decisions for them and the the VAR team who will not intervene when the referee has missed a clear and obvious penalty.”
This could be one of the major weaknesses in the system - where referees bottle a decision because they think VAR will bail them out but the VAR official isn’t strong enough to challenge their colleague and tell them “I think you got that wrong”
I think we are getting closer to the nub of the issue here regarding the non-award of the penalty when Rodri was being manhandled.
"VAR can be used to overturn a subjective decision if a "clear and obvious error" has been identified.The referee will explain their decision to the VAR, and what they have seen.If the evidence provided by the broadcast footage does not accord with what the referee believes they have seen, then the VAR can recommend an overturn." (my underlining & emphasis added)
https://www.premierleague.com/news/1297392
To my reading what this is saying is that unless the video footage differs from what the on-field referee BELIEVES they have seen, then the VAR will not overturn.
In other words, it was all down to how Oliver described what he saw.......it does not mention whether the VAR would independently have drawn anything to his attention and asked for his view. If they didn't and simply failed to say anything then the decision was purely Oliver's alone. They would have had to have said "We think there was a penalty offence there - holding on a City player" and Oliver MUST have said, "Yes I saw it - just a coming together, not a penalty for me"(my words). Because if he didn't then either the VAR failed to interpret that grappling as an offence (they would be in a minority) or Oliver didn't see it, and if not, why didn't he stop play and ask to consult the pitchside monitor?
What happened on Saturday stinks.
This just reinforces for me the need to have the audio between the officials available because this reeks of potential for misuse.
_________________________________
I am searching for stats on the use of VAR - number of VAR referrals, number of changed decisions, by match, by club etc
.....strangely they do not seem to exist.
It may be too early but I think that is silly. Stats exist for everything else, crosses, passes, shots etc WTF not on how many times VAR intervenes in a game. It will be very interesting to see just how many times the system is used on a match by match, club by club basis....
Rather than reply to any particular point made above, all I can point out in this is the situation that was probably referred to in any of the West Ham threads either MDT or PMR.....
Dean didn't look as he was going to award us the penalty at West Ham at first.
I remember thinking as he half turned away following the contact on Mahrez....
'He's not going to give it....'
I would love to hear an explanation from a referee as to why the grappling of Rodri was not worthy of a penalty.
I would love to hear an explanation from a referee as to why the grappling of Rodri was not worthy of a penalty.
If Oliver thinks it is not a penalty, then VAR should have pointed it out as a clear and obvious error and here is where it is at fault VAR did not think it was a penalty, probably the only two people in the world except Spurs, Liverpool and JoMU fans that thought it was and I suspect even some of them did as well
Indeed.
The only thing I can think of is that initially it was seen as six of one, and half a dozen of the other, before it degenerated into a semi head lock.
Thing is I can't see where (or why) Rodri would want or need to grab hold of Lamela in that position.
I think if you used a clip of that incident in a referee's training seminar 98 out 100 would say it was a foul & therefore a penalty. The only two dissenting opinions would be Michael Oliver and Graham Scott.
Honestly I got tired of feeling hard done by a whole ago once Pep's brand of football was shown to be delivering such sumptuous football. Those feelings are bubbling back the surface again as, unless we have some VAR controversy free games, I begin to think this has become just another tool to screw us over.
There was a bit of jostling between Rodri and Lamela before the kick was taken, nothing in it but when Rodri stole a march on Lamela following this Lamela grabbed him around the neck.
I recall thinking when the announcement of VAR coming in was made that Chris Smalling's career is over as every set piece that comes into the Utd box you'll see him swinging out of someone, turns out I was wrong, this type of thing is apparently ok
^ Which seemed to be a square up for the earlier City penalty in the game for what looked a much clearer offence by.......Mike Dean.
Look at this.....