Safe now, so what next? | Page 2 | Vital Football

Safe now, so what next?

IEC have a decision to make now on Cook - i suspect the next 2 performances will play into that.

Human nature means often the freshest thing in peoples minds disproportionately tilts opinion over what came before - so if we go back to sleep and or finishing on a high could tip the scales in either direction. If IEC haven't already made up their mind.

We've only won 6 games in 35, most of that run the performances and approach have been painful as relieved and pleased we are at the last week it doesn't make that vanish from consideration. Thanks to the 2 and a win Easter Cook has now has now just edged ahead of the universally panned Joyce in win ratio - throw into the mix finishing on 2 bad performances and results in the final 2 and we drop to 4th bottom i think it's very justifiable pulling the trigger. But on the flip side if he puts on another 2 good performances and results and we smash the away hoodoo with back to back away wins, and finish the season with 4 wins as high as 16th in the table 14 points clear of relegation then it completely transforms perception.

I think it could all still to play for for Cook. If i was him I'd be going all out in the final two to prove it's a real turn around and not just 1 good week. It's a important decision with big implications for IEC they will most likely want to take into account what happens in the following 2 rather than make a decision now on emotion.
KDZ I think you need to look at the last few months' draws & losses not on results but performances. If you've watched the whole games you'd see lots & lots of positives. I must admit I wasn't worried but thought we might just scrap through. Individual mistakes imo was the problem. Cook has proved to be the right manager for Wigan - he has the players' respect. We need to keep him and with that means stability for the club.
 
Play some of the wonder kids we seem to have for the remaining fixtures, league integrity permitting?

Push on and continue our relatively mid table form and aim for the highest finish possible?

New contract offers for those worthy who will be out of contract?

Sweep out the deadwood?

Give Cook a warchest?

Sack him? (This is an opinions forum, even for reactionary idiots) ?

Up the safe tics! ?

I would be very disappointed if some of the youngsters that have performed so well in the reserves and youth team this season do not get a run out against Birmingham from the bench. Both teams are safe and only playing for positions and negligible differences in prize money. If Millwall are safe on the final day then the same applies.

Of the out of contract players I'd only want to see Massey stay but that would mean a huge rebuilding job would be needed. Walton, Clarke, Robinson, Baningime and James would all go back and other than Robinson I would not expect any of them to return. McManaman, MacDonald, Olsson and Powell are all unlikely to get or accept new contracts, Gibson is the only one I can see staying although I would shed no tears if he didn't. Walker and Cole will go if we can find a buyer. I would expect Lang to join the squad as the 3rd choice striker, Owen Evans may also get the no. 2 slot with the gloves but I would be mighty surprised.

That leaves us needing a keeper, 3 full backs, at least one centre back, at least two creative centre mids, at least one winger and a striker. We can fill five of those spaces with loans at low cost - hopefully five Reece James' rather than five Callum Connolly's. So that would leave us needing to spend money on at least 5 new signings, if not more. The Grigg and what remains of the Burn money would be a starting point but I doubt that would be enough unless we make some very astute signings.

All told however I would not be surprised if Cook was relieved of his duties - simply because the new owners may want their own man in charge. Whether that would be a good thing or not remains to be seen - would we get a Farke/Wagner or would we get a Luhukay/Hurst?
 
Would like to see Weir and Gelhardt against Birmingham, if none of our best prospects are given a chance in a pressure free game, then we should pack in the youth teams. Pointless to be spending money developing players if they're never going to be given a single chance. They're both young at 16/17, but its doubtful they'll perform worse then Gibson or Connolly. If they're miles off the pace then the coaching staff and the players themselves will know that, they'll become better players for it.
 
KDZ I think you need to look at the last few months' draws & losses not on results but performances. If you've watched the whole games you'd see lots & lots of positives. I must admit I wasn't worried but thought we might just scrap through. Individual mistakes imo was the problem. Cook has proved to be the right manager for Wigan - he has the players' respect. We need to keep him and with that means stability for the club.

I have looked at performances all season and over the previous 35 games since the momentum stalled there were a lot of bad and a lot of negatives. The last 3 good games certainly help tilt the balance more favourably but the bad still outweighed the good overall. The past week has been a welcome and significant improvement in performances and results - but we've had a pretty miserable 6 months that are easy to forget in the positivity of the moment but they can't be brushed over either. If the Leeds and Norwich performances, positive ply and aggression were guarenteed to be the new normal then there wouldn't be a debate - but look at how our positive play became so negative after our start to the season - there is no way of knowing if the positive attacking play is back for good or will fade away again - it's a case of judging all available evidence and making an educated guess.

IEC have to make up their mind if they think we've genuinely turned the corner or if this was a great escape and the lower levels of performance will be resumed next season. They need to calculate if whoever they may have lined up would be more or less likely to spend the transfer budget wisely and do well next season, and if this season all things considered we did well to stay up or if we should've stayed up comfortably and cutting it so fine was a poor showing. There is an argument to be made either way.
 
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I've said it before the brief was to stay up mission accomplished sacking not an option financially or otherwise

Relegation to L1 costs a club the best part of 5-6m in tv and solidaity payments alone. If Cook has 2 years left on his deal and is on 10k a week that is about 1m compo, so if IEC believe he isn't going to keep us up next season, sacking is the massively pragmatic financial option. It depends on what they believe.

The other factor is we don't know exactly who signed who but with IEC's plan to sign players to sell on at profit the management judgement on players will come into consideration. If Cook chose to spend about half of our transfer budget on Windass and Lopes for the best part of 3.5m that we are very unlikely to recover then IEC may have pause for thought. Alternatively if it's not Cook and the duds are on someone else that probably plays well for Cook as he can point out he can only work with what he is given. IEC need to have someone making the final call on players who they feel can be trusted either way.

It's all about IEC's trust, the cost of change is not that big that it would be a road block if they don't have sufficent faith.
 
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I edge towards keeping Cook regardless of the last two games and their results. However, he is under pressure, he needs to deliver results from the get go next season otherwise i can see IEC getting shut of him around time of first International break in early September.

If both ourselves and Millwall are safe come final game which i expect will happen as i cannot see Rotherham beating WBA away then i dont see any harm in having a few kinds like Weir, Maffeo and Gelhardt on the bench. Millwall themselves may even do the same if they were safe not to mention tens of other clubs up and down country in dead rubber games.

But the Brum game is different, given only two away wins all season, i want to see us go out there and round off a good strong April with only a third away win of the season.
 
Given the Everton connection in the board room, if Cooky is relieved of his duties, and I hope that is not the case, I can see David Unsworth coming in!!!
 
The youth teams seem to be doing really well, it’d be good to see 1 or 2 youngsters make the step up to the 1st team. Its obviously a big step up though, anyone know if any of the kids look ready to move into the 1st team squad any time soon?
 
Relegation to L1 costs a club the best part of 5-6m in tv and solidaity payments alone. If Cook has 2 years left on his deal and is on 10k a week that is about 1m compo, so if IEC believe he isn't going to keep us up next season, sacking is the massively pragmatic financial option. It depends on what they believe.

The other factor is we don't know exactly who signed who but with IEC's plan to sign players to sell on at profit the management judgement on players will come into consideration. If Cook chose to spend about half of our transfer budget on Windass and Lopes for the best part of 3.5m that we are very unlikely to recover then IEC may have pause for thought. Alternatively if it's not Cook and the duds are on someone else that probably plays well for Cook as he can point out he can only work with what he is given. IEC need to have someone making the final call on players who they feel can be trusted either way.

It's all about IEC's trust, the cost of change is not that big that it would be a road block if they don't have sufficent faith.

all guess work you don't know what IEC are planning anymore than the rest of us you are guessing his weekly wage the only thing that is the truth is that he was told to keep the club in the championship which he did now yourself and the rest of the cook out brigade should get on the cider and have a good blow out for a few weeks
 
all guess work you don't know what IEC are planning anymore than the rest of us you are guessing his weekly wage the only thing that is the truth is that he was told to keep the club in the championship which he did now yourself and the rest of the cook out brigade should get on the cider and have a good blow out for a few weeks

It's not really guess work it's pure common sense though isn't it - if IEC don't think Cook will do well next season he'll be gone - if they think he will do well he'll stay and be backed. You said we don't have a financial option to get rid, unless Cook is on something like 40-60k a week in which case paying compo would wipe out all the income then that's simply not true. I am very confident of guessing he isn't on anything like that as 10k was not a stingy guess based on our budget.

I'm not in the Cook out brigade, i'm in the Wigan Athletic best interest brigade, staying up this season doesn't mean that Cook staying on is automatically in our best interests. There is a case to be made either way and the point wasn't as much we should boot him out today as much as IEC will not stick with him to save money in the short term if they don't believe in him to do the job as it will just cost them more in the long term. These are business people and wont be sentimental about changing if they feel it will yield better returns next season.
 
We should play our strongest team possible for our final 2 games.
Try and end the season on a high and as high up the table as possible.
A good end to the season could encourage more people to buy STs or attend more games next season.

Bringing the kids in can wait until pre season.
 
These young players are doing realy well .. But really shows the level of football they are playing when they beat top of the league 9 nil at home they need to go out on loan like lang to find out if they can hack it and IEC Need to upgrade us to the next level
 
It's not really guess work it's pure common sense though isn't it - if IEC don't think Cook will do well next season he'll be gone - if they think he will do well he'll stay and be backed. You said we don't have a financial option to get rid, unless Cook is on something like 40-60k a week in which case paying compo would wipe out all the income then that's simply not true. I am very confident of guessing he isn't on anything like that as 10k was not a stingy guess based on our budget.

I'm not in the Cook out brigade, i'm in the Wigan Athletic best interest brigade, staying up this season doesn't mean that Cook staying on is automatically in our best interests. There is a case to be made either way and the point wasn't as much we should boot him out today as much as IEC will not stick with him to save money in the short term if they don't believe in him to do the job as it will just cost them more in the long term. These are business people and wont be sentimental about changing if they feel it will yield better returns next season.


these business people have left the running of the club to the royals and Jackson thank the Lord they have acted wisely and not knee jerked like previous administration and the will of a few folk on here I'm with a previous poster who said as I did the mission has been completed the job done on to next season and if its similar results and league position by November it will need reviewing and you and a few others will get your wish otherwise let the man get on with the job
 
Even if we have a slow start to next season is that grounds for sacking Cook?
We might have injuries again or have to bed in 5 or 6 new signings.
We could be bedding in a couple of our young lads. Allowing them to learn on the job.
Personally I'd give Cook the season and see if improvements are made.
A change in personnel doesn't mean improvement on the pitch.
 
these business people have left the running of the club to the royals and Jackson thank the Lord they have acted wisely and not knee jerked like previous administration and the will of a few folk on here I'm with a previous poster who said as I did the mission has been completed the job done on to next season and if its similar results and league position by November it will need reviewing and you and a few others will get your wish otherwise let the man get on with the job

IEC and the board decided to stick with Cook and they got it right, but like i say that doesn't mean they will automatically keep him. This is a big summer and we need to improve considerably, recruit well with Powell and James both leaving and us likely needing to recruit 10 players and they will have to make the call on if they think he is capable of doing it.

I've got no problem with people saying they were right about Cook keeping us up - their faith was rewarded. But it's massively disengenous to make out like Cook was doing well all along, that we weren't ever in any danger and even now there aren't questions to be asked. Our performances, results, away record, tactics, signings, etc all looked massively questionable for the majority of the past 6 months. There's nothing remotely knee jerk about being critical of how poor we've been at times and the runs we've been on.

If people want to say they have faith Cook will improve next season, all the power to them they could be right - but lets not rewrite history - this season might have a happy end but it's been quite horrible for the majority and we have been lucky that there have been so many teams in the mix and we will need to improve signigicantly to avoid another relegation battle.
 
Two sides to every coin KDZ.

You're bang on re away form, some signings and the tactics some of the time.

Against that, there's a strong argument in his favour, based on home form, other signings (& loanees) and tactics the rest of the time.

The season's made up of both bags ........ a reet shitty one, and another packed full of nice stuff.

The biggest thing in his favour has been the last 3 games - the reaction of the players, the performances and of course, the results.

All this said, I completely agree with you that there's no way he should be given as much leeway in future. This year though, I think he earned it .......... and thankfully, he delivered ....... just!
 
Two sides to every coin KDZ.

You're bang on re away form, some signings and the tactics some of the time.

Against that, there's a strong argument in his favour, based on home form, other signings (& loanees) and tactics the rest of the time.

The season's made up of both bags ........ a reet shitty one, and another packed full of nice stuff.

The biggest thing in his favour has been the last 3 games - the reaction of the players, the performances and of course, the results.

All this said, I completely agree with you that there's no way he should be given as much leeway in future. This year though, I think he earned it .......... and thankfully, he delivered ....... just!
Worth remembering this is the first time Cook has been involved in a relegation fight. Over 600 games in management but if you haven't experienced it I imagine little can prepare you for it. Dropped points in a promotion push are very different to dropped points in a relegation dog fight.