MoN OUT | Page 20 | Vital Football

MoN OUT

InvincibleBrianMan said:
To me though that is the reason he has to go. We should never have brought in a manager so diametrically opposed to the strengths of the squad we had.
This would have been perfect for a SOD or Hart type of appointment, someone to get the best out of the squad we have already assmbled.
Mon brings nothing in terms of development of players from what I can see. Instead it comes down to stop and start again in a new direction.
To me we were going the right way but this leaves us with no choice but to jettison players who I believe would have gelled into a promotion side next year.
Mon has devalued the club assets and we risk an exodus of the best players as a result.
I always call for stability and time to build but this time he has already shown he is demolishing not building. He has condemned a perfectly good structure and I don't trust him to replace it with anything but shanty built shit house of a replacement.
The club needs to act quickly before we see the rise of Megson mk II. And all that went with that. (In my opinion)
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Except, there isn't a lot to develop. Looking at our current squad and who we actually own. As regular first 11 - Lolley, Carvhalo, Grabban. That's it. Squad players - Yates, Worrall, Appiah, Dawson (if fit), same Geddy, Milosevic.
Of the loanee players - I'd be happy to sign Colback and Benhiyoun. I wouldn't be sorry to see everyone else go. Not good enough.
 
Hardy Forest said:
I'll give you a prediction of what happens when they sack MON at the end of the season.
1. We spend weeks/months appointing a new one.
2. Listen to all the crap about patience and long term vision, knowing it will all go out the window within a couple of months.
3. New boss wants time to access current squad.
4. Pre season starts with virtually no new players in yet, and hardly any of the dross having left yet.
5. Everyone on here, calling for MON head, starts moaning about lack of signings and progress. Despite knowing that this would be the case.
6. Last minute, over priced, average players finally arrive, but need time to gel, as haven't had a full pre season.
7. Everyone moaning because of lack of planning, forgetting they all called for it in the first place.

How do we know this? Because it's the same every fucking year......
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Can't say you are wrong there, but I would make this point:

That has been our experience of appointing managers previously, but every one of those has been a poor managerial choice. It's not impossible that a manager could come in and assess the squad quickly.

More importantly, perhaps a good appointment could do something absolutely shocking and actually (whisper it) work with what we have.

This isn't actually a bad squad at its core. Capable goalkeeper. Plenty of very decent centre backs. Yacob and Yates in the holding roles. Lolley, Carvalho and Grabban as creative/goalscoring players. The spine of a good team is already there. It's the wide areas that need work and it's not impossible that a quality manager could make players out of Cash and Darikwa or bring Appiah on quickly.

Bielsa came into Leeds in the summer and didn't sign hoards of players. He vastly improved what was already there. Lampard came into Derby at the end of July having spent the summer in Russia and has done no worse than his predecessors
 
Hardy Forest said:
So you think this squad capable of winning promotion then Mappred? Because I think very few of this squad are. Of the players AK brought in, Lolley, Grabban and Carvhalo are worth keeping, possibly a fit Dawson and Geddy as squad players.
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No, what I’m saying is, O’Neill has destroyed the morale of the squad, brought back players that AK, and the rest of us, knew had had it it and told them to play a totally different game to the one they were getting used to. I’ll throw it back to you Hardy. Do you think that O’Neill will bring in the players that will get us challenging? Because I certainly don’t.
 
Sorry Hardy. Just read your post again' and you do think he can. Fair play. You’re optimistic, I’ll give you that.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Can't say you are wrong there, but I would make this point:

That has been our experience of appointing managers previously, but every one of those has been a poor managerial choice. It's not impossible that a manager could come in and assess the squad quickly.

More importantly, perhaps a good appointment could do something absolutely shocking and actually (whisper it) work with what we have.

This isn't actually a bad squad at its core. Capable goalkeeper. Plenty of very decent centre backs. Yacob and Yates in the holding roles. Lolley, Carvalho and Grabban as creative/goalscoring players. The spine of a good team is already there. It's the wide areas that need work and it's not impossible that a quality manager could make players out of Cash and Darikwa or bring Appiah on quickly.

Bielsa came into Leeds in the summer and didn't sign hoards of players. He vastly improved what was already there. Lampard came into Derby at the end of July having spent the summer in Russia and has done no worse than his predecessors
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I take your point Pope, but it hinges on making the right appointment, something weve failed to do in what, 17 seasons now? What faith do you honestly have in that changing anytime soon?
I also dont think the squad is in quite as good a place as you say. I dont think Yates is ready to be starting every game and Yacob hasn't been as good as I hoped he would be. No longer good enough for a promotion challenge IMO.
 
Hardy Forest said:
I take your point Pope, but it hinges on making the right appointment, something weve failed to do in what, 17 seasons now? What faith do you honestly have in that changing anytime soon?
I also dont think the squad is in quite as good a place as you say. I dont think Yates is ready to be starting every game and Yacob hasn't been as good as I hoped he would be. No longer good enough for a promotion challenge IMO.
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But better than Watson. No?
 
Yes, but that's not saying much. None of them are going to drive us to promotion. We need better. We are ridiculously overloaded with defensively minded midfielders. Need better quality and balance there.
 
Hardy Forest said:
Yes, but that's not saying much. None of them are going to drive us to promotion. We need better. We are ridiculously overloaded with defensively minded midfielders. Need better quality and balance there.
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Keeps playing them though doesn’t he.
 
Hardy Forest said:
Except, there isn't a lot to develop. Looking at our current squad and who we actually own. As regular first 11 - Lolley, Carvhalo, Grabban. That's it. Squad players - Yates, Worrall, Appiah, Dawson (if fit), same Geddy, Milosevic.
Of the loanee players - I'd be happy to sign Colback and Benhiyoun. I wouldn't be sorry to see everyone else go. Not good enough.
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I disagree, we have Yacob hardly being played, Carvalho not being played, both of those make a big difference to the quality of service for lolz and gabz.so dropping those two also nullifies two other players. Yes cash and Ben O are workmanlike but you need some of that for the squad. Soudani is a quality player if / when back.
Yeates and Gueddy are quality players at this level. The defense needs some added quality but we have plenty of at least adequate options but ( in my opinion) we need a decent attacking left back.
Apiah looks good. We have a core of players that we own that are good enough to get us up but we need a manager to play to their strengths and play his best side.
Around Christmas we looked as though we needed a little tweaking and we would come good. I expected Carvalho to develop and at least one of the other potugeezers to step up. And was expecting a couple of additions in Jan to consolidate for a top 6 or 7 finish and promotion next year.
Now I'm expecting below mid table finish,our best players wanting away to be replaced by journeymen, and fighting relegation next year.
He's made a very promising squad look poor through deliberate action so why trust him to build a successful side? He hasn't done it for years and years.
 
I think we’ve got lots of good players, albeit probably the squad is too big. A good manager would get this squad into the play offs and I believe AK was on course to do that no later than next season, and quite possibly this.

Losing AK was absurd, a huge error imo.

The choice of his replacement was an equally serious error.

In my view, by some distance the biggest problem we have is the manager.
 
InvincibleBrianMan said:
I disagree, we have Yacob hardly being played, Carvalho not being played, both of those make a big difference to the quality of service for lolz and gabz.so dropping those two also nullifies two other players. Yes cash and Ben O are workmanlike but you need some of that for the squad. Soudani is a quality player if / when back.
Yeates and Gueddy are quality players at this level. The defense needs some added quality but we have plenty of at least adequate options but ( in my opinion) we need a decent attacking left back.
Apiah looks good. We have a core of players that we own that are good enough to get us up but we need a manager to play to their strengths and play his best side.
Around Christmas we looked as though we needed a little tweaking and we would come good. I expected Carvalho to develop and at least one of the other potugeezers to step up. And was expecting a couple of additions in Jan to consolidate for a top 6 or 7 finish and promotion next year.
Now I'm expecting below mid table finish,our best players wanting away to be replaced by journeymen, and fighting relegation next year.
He's made a very promising squad look poor through deliberate action so why trust him to build a successful side? He hasn't done it for years and years.
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I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree then. Yacob is no longer good enough and Yates isn't there yet. Great prospect, but not shouldn't be starting every game. He himself credits MON and Keane with his development.
I love Geddy, but also getting on and not as effective as he once was.
Soudani is absolute shite and should never kick a ball for us again. I'm pretty shocked you rate him in all honesty.
Cash and Ben are versatile squad players, but again not good enough as regular first 11.
I agree re Cavalho, should be playing more. We aren't seeing him day in day out in training though.
 
Hardy Forest said:
Except, there isn't a lot to develop. Looking at our current squad and who we actually own. As regular first 11 - Lolley, Carvhalo, Grabban. That's it. Squad players - Yates, Worrall, Appiah, Dawson (if fit), same Geddy, Milosevic.
Of the loanee players - I'd be happy to sign Colback and Benhiyoun. I wouldn't be sorry to see everyone else go. Not good enough.
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Benalouane is here till June 2020, he's not on loan. If they all get fit we have Dawson, Figueirido, Hefele, Benny L, Milosevic, and Worrall. Whether we can get two decent CHs from them and keep them fit next season is another matter.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Why is Yacob not good enough?

What has he done wrong?
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I agree, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with him.

Also couldn’t disagree more with the comments about Matt Cash. He’s a great player at this level, albeit with some learning still to do. He, Lolley, Colback, Carvalho are all brilliant players.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Can't say you are wrong there, but I would make this point:

That has been our experience of appointing managers previously, but every one of those has been a poor managerial choice. It's not impossible that a manager could come in and assess the squad quickly.

More importantly, perhaps a good appointment could do something absolutely shocking and actually (whisper it) work with what we have.

This isn't actually a bad squad at its core. Capable goalkeeper. Plenty of very decent centre backs. Yacob and Yates in the holding roles. Lolley, Carvalho and Grabban as creative/goalscoring players. The spine of a good team is already there. It's the wide areas that need work and it's not impossible that a quality manager could make players out of Cash and Darikwa or bring Appiah on quickly.

Bielsa came into Leeds in the summer and didn't sign hoards of players. He vastly improved what was already there. Lampard came into Derby at the end of July having spent the summer in Russia and has done no worse than his predecessors
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Completely agree. We don’t need a ‘clear out’. We need a good manager. And it’s galling that we already had one!
 
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