Freedom of Speech | Page 8 | Vital Football

Freedom of Speech

Stephen Jay Hawkings said:
lol, I haven't gone full blown Hitler just yet BB!

Not sure why the Joe Rogan reference, I'm not an avid listener of his, at most I watch Youtube clips of various different guests, but anyway he doesn't have any extreme right-wingers on his show does he?

I just find the whole Tommy Robinson thing fascinating. He opposes radical Islam and he's active about it. He wants nothing to do with Nazism or racism and doesn't want people like that at his protests, he has made that pretty clear. I have no time Islam full stop, just like I have none for Christianity or Scientology or any other ridiculous beliefs.

I have watched a lot of his stuff, just to find something to expose him with, yet I can't find anything. I haven't been radicalised or been led down any path. The fascinating part for me is how the media and mainstream culture have demonized him and formulated people's opinions for them. If I'm missing a whole bunch of really bad stuff he's said or done, then by all means show me, and I'll re-evaluate my opinion.

If he is said to be inciting hate by criticising Islam, then we are in big trouble. No religion or belief system is above criticism.
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He was a member of the BNP and founded the EDL. They hate you just as much as they hate everyone else.

 
I know all about his past, I've done enough research on him. He left the BNP after one meeting because they didn't allow non-whites in, and he quit the EDL because it had become swollen with racists and Neo-Nazis, he has talked about it a lot in interviews and in his Oxford Union speech.

Doesn't take anything away from his point these days. I'm not saying I'm a Tommy Robinson supporter, again, I'm more interested in how people are demonized by the media, yet if you go have a look yourself, it's not all as it seems.

I find this video hilarious, and a lesson to anyone no matter what their beliefs or political leaning. If people going to accuse someone of being a racist/Nazi/bigot whatever, then they really need to be able to back their claims up

 
Stephen Jay Hawkings said:
I know all about his past, I've done enough research on him. He left the BNP after one meeting because they didn't allow non-whites in, and he quit the EDL because it had become swollen with racists and Neo-Nazis, he has talked about it a lot in interviews and in his Oxford Union speech.

Doesn't take anything away from his point these days. I'm not saying I'm a Tommy Robinson supporter, again, I'm more interested in how people are demonized by the media, yet if you go have a look yourself, it's not all as it seems.

I find this video hilarious, and a lesson to anyone no matter what their beliefs or political leaning. If people going to accuse someone of being a racist/Nazi/bigot whatever, then they really need to be able to back their claims up

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Why did the EDL, the group that he founded, become swollen with racists?
 
mike_field said:
Problem is though SJH everything he does 'walk like, talks like' and then he claims he isn't and plays the poor me, trying to change the narrative.
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I don't quite see it as that simple though Mike, certainly his past image is hard to escape (working class, football hooligan, BNP, EDL etc.), but my point is he is making valid points about Islam and has every right to, and the treatment he gets from the media, police and government is way over the top. If what he says about how he's treated in prison is true, then it's clear they want him dead. They also seem to use any excuse whatsoever to throw him in prison.

If anyone watched the video with Mohammed Tawhidi, who is a scholar of Islam, you clearly see his concerns are valid. He's not just spewing racist hate.

But I'm guessing no one has, so I'm just here pissing against the wind, lol
 
But he tries to hide exactly why he's doing it and that in itself makes him a target for criticism.

And not everything he says is valid points - he betrays himself.

As for his treatment, you'd think he'd never broken the law knowingly with the simplicity of how you phrase it mate (which I know isn't your intention here).
 
BodyButter said:
Why did the EDL, the group that he founded, become swollen with racists?
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I couldn't tell you exactly why BB, but I would assume because racists are idiots?

From what I know, it became that way when Robinson was in prison and when he got out he left.

The EDL was founded as an opposition to Islam, but yeah, obviously it was going to attract the wrong people. Just the name in itself sounds so much like the BNP, National Front etc.
 
mike_field said:
But he tries to hide exactly why he's doing it and that in itself makes him a target for criticism.

And not everything he says is valid points - he betrays himself.

As for his treatment, you'd think he'd never broken the law knowingly with the simplicity of how you phrase it mate (which I know isn't your intention here).
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But what's he trying to hide? That he's a racist? You'll have to show me something.

Which points are not valid where he betrays himself? Again, I need something substantial. Genuinely, there may be things I have missed. I would like to call him a bigoted **** like everyone else, it would make life a whole lot easier, but until I have proper reason to...

And yes, of course he's broken the law, but I don't think the punishments fit the crimes. It's almost like he's being made an example out of. Solitary confinment and being transferred to prison wings that are exclusively Jihadi prisoners and fighting for his life everyday? For what? Filming outside court?
 
I'm sorry, but I've been reading these posts, and have tried to stay out of this. I can't. Tommy Robinson is a despicable Fascist.

He was in a category C prison with a minority of Muslims. There is no Mosque in the jail, and he was under protection the whole time. I'm afraid you've fallen for the hype, SJH, which is a shame.

He claimed to be highlighting the plight of the victims, when all he did was endanger the trial, which could have led to it being re-arranged for a later date. I'm sure the victims would like to have it done and dusted.

Even if he said nothing remotely racist, the people that follow him are very clearly fascist. It's a bit like Trump: if you don't denounce them then you are supporting them.
 
Fair enough Heath, but can you tell me why you think he's a despicable fascist?

Yes he was in a category C prison with a 7% Muslim population then transferred to a prison with the highest Muslim population in Britain where he was kept in solitary confinement for 2 months.

I haven't fallen for any hype, I'm trying to do the opposite. I don't think he should have been outside court filming, but I can't go along with the media's version of events either. As I said in a previous post, Sky News have deliberately misquoted him to obviously add fuel to the fire. Why would they do that? The Guardian labeled him a white supremacist and when he confronted the journalist she wouldn't talk to him. Why not? Instead they called the police. What's the agenda?

Why does one of the world's leading scholars of Islam support him? Is he a fascist too?
 
He did not get moved to a prison with a 71% Muslim population. That was a conspiracy theory spread by his manager, Breitbart, Infowars and an MEP named Janice Atkinson, who has also flirted with the fascist group Europe of Nations and Freedom.

You cannot absolve yourself of responsibility for the actions of your followers. No matter what he says or does, these are what defines him.

If he were to condemn them, then my mind might be changed, but all he does is encourage and embolden them.
 
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Can you give me a link to that conspiracy theory story? The only thing showing up on Google is a dead link from the Mirror.

From what I've read/seen he has condemned any fascist/racist/nazi elements in his followers time and time again. Should that detract what he says about Islam?
 
Stephen Jay Hawkings said:
But what's he trying to hide? That he's a racist? You'll have to show me something.

Which points are not valid where he betrays himself? Again, I need something substantial. Genuinely, there may be things I have missed. I would like to call him a bigoted **** like everyone else, it would make life a whole lot easier, but until I have proper reason to...

And yes, of course he's broken the law, but I don't think the punishments fit the crimes. It's almost like he's being made an example out of. Solitary confinment and being transferred to prison wings that are exclusively Jihadi prisoners and fighting for his life everyday? For what? Filming outside court?
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Dude, please.

I'm too tired to do my usual notorious points for all parties lol

Everything he's ever been involved with is against those of a non white persuasion - one relatively decent interview doesn't change that. He's an improvement on Nick Griffin and that isn't saying much.

He betrays himself at every angle - has he ever filmed court cases of white child alleged molesters?

Has he ever filmed white defendants, having been warned about contempt of court and then continued to do the same - or did he just do that for the darkies?

And then claim he didn't know it was a crime and ultimately pray on a judge who thought fuck this and sentenced him when more retarded judge on appeal went with 'it was too quick' as opposed to 'not correct'.

The bloke is scum.

Have you ever thought isolation was for his own protection, have you ever thought isolation was based on his own behaviour - or are you going to believe the words of a racist bellend interested in his own self promotion at the expense of the laws of this country and until otherwise proven innocent parties, when he can't even keep his own story straight....so much so, he changes his name.

We're not going to agree matey boy.And in not agreeing he's won actually, we're still discussing a member of the UK who should be made sterile because too many don't believe in the death penalty.
 
I get you're arguing free speech at the core mate, but whilst I'd argue for the twats right to speak, you've slipped into justifying and he has no justification - he has a right to be shot down.
 
lol Mike, no we're not going to agree, I could argue some of the points you've made, but I've had enough arguing for one night!

And you're right, it is about free speech at the core, not Tommy Robinson. If it was the late Christopher Hitchens I'd be arguing for him too on what he had to say about Islam. He got out just in time it seems before the world went batshit crazy.

Anyone has the right to be shot down, but so do their accusers. If people are peddling genuine hate speech and inciting actual violence, then no, shut it down. But the problem for me is the lines are becoming too blurred. Terms like racist and fascist are bandied around willy nilly these days and it's not right. The words are losing their meaning.

As I said before Islam is no more above any other belief system, yet it seems it has to be tiptoed around. People may say with good reason, Charlie Hebdo et al, but fuck that.

I have no time for inane belief systems and all of them should be subjected to the same amount of scrutiny, but it seems Islam is given a free pass these days due to political correctness. Bollocks.
 
mike_field said:
Dude, please.

I'm too tired to do my usual notorious points for all parties lol

Everything he's ever been involved with is against those of a non white persuasion - one relatively decent interview doesn't change that. He's an improvement on Nick Griffin and that isn't saying much.

He betrays himself at every angle - has he ever filmed court cases of white child alleged molesters?

Has he ever filmed white defendants, having been warned about contempt of court and then continued to do the same - or did he just do that for the darkies?

And then claim he didn't know it was a crime and ultimately pray on a judge who thought fuck this and sentenced him when more retarded judge on appeal went with 'it was too quick' as opposed to 'not correct'.

The bloke is scum.

Have you ever thought isolation was for his own protection, have you ever thought isolation was based on his own behaviour - or are you going to believe the words of a racist bellend interested in his own self promotion at the expense of the laws of this country and until otherwise proven innocent parties, when he can't even keep his own story straight....so much so, he changes his name.

We're not going to agree matey boy.And in not agreeing he's won actually, we're still discussing a member of the UK who should be made sterile because too many don't believe in the death penalty.
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Yes! A proper Fieldy rant. We haven't had one of them for ages. Wooo hooo!
 
Stephen Jay Hawkings said:
lol Mike, no we're not going to agree, I could argue some of the points you've made, but I've had enough arguing for one night!

And you're right, it is about free speech at the core, not Tommy Robinson. If it was the late Christopher Hitchens I'd be arguing for him too on what he had to say about Islam. He got out just in time it seems before the world went batshit crazy.

Anyone has the right to be shot down, but so do their accusers. If people are peddling genuine hate speech and inciting actual violence, then no, shut it down. But the problem for me is the lines are becoming too blurred. Terms like racist and fascist are bandied around willy nilly these days and it's not right. The words are losing their meaning.

As I said before Islam is no more above any other belief system, yet it seems it has to be tiptoed around. People may say with good reason, Charlie Hebdo et al, but fuck that.

I have no time for inane belief systems and all of them should be subjected to the same amount of scrutiny, but it seems Islam is given a free pass these days due to political correctness. Bollocks.
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In what way does Islam get a free pass?
 
Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon (born 27 November 1982),[3] known by the pseudonym Tommy Robinson, and previously as Andrew McMaster and Paul Harris.

I've just been reading up on good old Tommy. Salt of the Earth Tommy, a true son of the soil of England.

Good as gold Tommy has at least 3 fake names and one false passport. He has served time for threatening, abusive or insulting behaviour where he was involved in football hooliganism, common assault when he headbutted someone at an EDL rally, using a false passport to enter the US, mortgage fraud and contempt of court. He also has convictions for drug offenses.

Hilariously, the guy's whole shtick is that Muslims are somehow above the law. He claims to defend Britain and British values but he obviously has no respect for the law or anyone else. He is a career criminal and and an utter fraud.
 
Lol SJH, I didn't explain myself that well and I crawled to bed not long after posting the last one - what I was trying to say was I knew you were wanting to talk more about the speech elements, but it's a by product of somebody like Robinson we all get sucked into corners and end up arguing tangents without actually meaning to.

And we both have looking back lol

And yes, the proper debates do get muddied by the backgrounds of those involved rather than it being more straight laced and targeted.
 
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